Upgrade, Anyone?

[The Black Knight]

I'm looking to upgrade my 1998 Legacy GT. It has a 2.5L engine, and I know it can give me more power than it currently is. At the same time I am a student and don't want to spend a ton of cash to get the mods I want. I have been considering replacing the air intake with a Weapon R model short ram air intake, but I don't know that this will change things all that much. I have also read on other's accounts that they have added a chip to make this model a front wheel drive, I know this could increase my gas milage as well as give me faster times off the line. I'm open to any other ideas, and I want to throw out something I found that looks interesting. Check out this website and see what you think for yourself:

http://www.turbonator.com/index.html?id=adWordsLegacy

The Black Knight

P.S. I'll load up some pics soon. :roll:

[Tris_STi]

Please sell your Legacy and buy a Civic, those are FWD. If you think you can get faster 'off-the-line' times, I won't argue with you. It's obviously your opinion. :roll: It's dead wrong, but it's your opinion.

Where are you located? I'd love to take your ride off your hands and give it to a real Subaru owner.

The 'TURBONATOR' is actually an intake restriction, I wouldn't recommend it for ANY automotive application. It would barely pass as a dollar-store air conditioning unit.

Weapon R is also not recommended, as are most aftermarket "CAIs" --which they're not. Your engine bay is HOT. Keeping your intake in there makes it the furthest from Cold Air you can get. Feel me?

If you want better mileage, you need a smaller engine, period. You're running a 2.5l block --that's beefier than most cars. My suggestion to you is to get a true CAI, by running some custom (yes, this requires custom work) tubing down the fender to reach colder air temps near the ground. (Heat rises, right?) More air and some exhaust mods should generate enough positive MPG for you to be content.
Since you have the EJ25 engine, you can use all the mods open to the 2.5RS crowd --you're running basically the same car. So check those out.

I assume you've got an AT, since you mentioned a 'chip' for FWD. This isn't a chip, it's a fuse you place in a designated spot during emergencies where towing the car is your only option. It is not wise to run your car in FWD mode for extended periods of time. I would expect driveline and transmission damage as a result of this. Please don't do it, unless you'd like to buy another tranny.

We'd love to help you out here, keep asking questions, we're (and I) full of answers and good, solid Legacy knowledge.

[Pwise2326]

I'm with Tris with the exception of one thing -- the tube running down the fender to the ground...thats just asking for trouble. There's a short writeup here on how to do a snorkusectomy (aka removing the intake silencer) and will show you how to seal your airbox to the fender which only allows cold air from the fender to enter your engine -- I have a temp study to prove you dont need to go down to the ground to get cold air. Regardless, the weapon R is a bad idea. If you have an auto you can put the fuse in to make it FWD...but WHY??? One gets a Subaru because of it's AWD and superior handling characteristics. Thats what gives sube's the edge over all the FWD civics and everything else. Faster launch off the line with FWD?? Maybe you've been looking at too many civic forums, this is incorrect. I wish I had the video of a race where you see an Audi with quattro AWD jump carlengths ahead of the rest of the pack of FWD and RWD cars. With AWD you are getting more power to the ground and you move the weight of the car better by not dragging ass (FWD) or pushing a load (RWD).

I should probably tell you now that I have the same car as you (98 LGT), so if you have any questions or need more guidance, PM me and I"ll be more than happy to set you off in the right direction. I'm still in the same boat as you as far as not having money from going to college, so a lot of my mods are cheap (if not free) and easy to do. Ultimately, if you want more power from your block, you'll have to either spend a bit of cash or swap it out for an engine designed with turbos (EJ20T - WRX, EJ22T - older Legacy turbo, EJ257 - STI, EJ20tt - JDM legacy twin turbo block). If you slap a turbo to our N/A blocks, you can only run about 9psi before fragging the internals.

Last thing, definately stay away from that turbonator. We'll talk and get you going right, owning a Subaru is completely different from owning a Civic, as it is right now you own a civic-killer. Hope this helps.

[Tokio]

O M F G ! ! !

what an idiot. FWD?!?! better take off?!!?!

SOMEONE has spent too much time watching the fast and the furious and not enough time reading subiesport and grassroot motorsports.

lmfao

[pdawg]

i'm with these guy's. who the f**k cares about off the line speed. give me curves and i'll show yow what fun is.

[Pwise2326]

Alright, I think we are all being a little too harsh here. No one means to flame you for not knowing any better, but you only learn from asking questions, so your doing the right thing. You can see this crowd isn't too fond of the ricer/civic scene or anyone in it, so don't mind them. Either way, welcome to the board and if you stick around you'll learn something and make your car perform better and perform like a Subaru should.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Welcome to the boards man. I asked about the turbinator (not on this site) once and I got FLAMED! People who've seen this kind of garbage on eBay all their lives get a little ancy when it hoodwinks someone. They're not really trying to be that harsh. I understand, its hard to distinguish what's real and what's not. The thing about that turbinator is it is a lot like a turbo, but the intake air alone will not make it move. so it'll only get in the way. With a true turbo, you need the intake and the exhaust flow to make it move. Hence, forced air. Any mods you want to do, just ask us and we'll give our (sometimes bruatally) honest opinion about it. Also, feel free to browse around and see some of the information on existing (and proven) N/A (non-turbo) mods and engine swaps. Better fuel economy, come to my world, the EJ22. Again, welcome, and good luck!

[The Black Knight]

Ok everybody, my deep apologies, I really didn't mean to offend. I appreciate all your advice, and I will continue to ask questions, as I agree it is the only way to learn. As I expressed before money is limited for me so I'm trying to find ways to improve the performance of my car without spending and arm and a leg. I am not a fan of the rice rockets either, so I take it as an insult that you guys would think that is what I'm trying to do with my Subaru. NO, you can not buy it from me. Who doesn't want their car to be faster, let alone more fuel efficient? The advice on the turbonator is what I expected, the website looks like a cheap infomercial to me. I spoke with the Subaru dealer today, and they suggested that I replace the intake and exhaust with a CAI and High capacity exhaust. But after what all of you have said I'm starting to think they are just out to make another buck. Afterall they want me to go to them to get my 90K tune-up, to the tune of $600. Does that seem high to the rest of you? And do any of you have any ideas on what all needs to be done for the 90K tune up, and how to do it? How difficult is it to replace the timing belt, can it be done at home, is it safe to do without prior knowledge on the how to's, and how much would it cost to have that done? I'm just trying to figure things out, afterall I just got the car about a month ago, so bare with me. Thank again to all of you. Sometimes it pays to be a little rough around the edges, it gets things done right.

[Pwise2326]

Glad to see you took all that abuse in stride, that is probably the harshest I've ever seen anyone here be to a new member. You are right about the dealership, always out to make a buck, stick with the snorkusectomy aka intake silencer removal/homeade true-to-form CAI which will cost you nothing, and save your pennies for a decent exhaust SYSTEM...not just a "high capacity" muffler they will try to sell you. If you are going to do the exhaust do it right -- headers (either borla or TWE), high flow cat (stromung is top notch), and cat-back (mid pipe and muffler, stick to stromung, borla, cobb, scoobysport, etc etc. -- stay away from the fart cans). Just remember to buy only 2.25" piping for the catback sections, anything larger will cause a decrease in power (muffler tip size doesnt matter, the 3.5" tipped stromung muffler is pretty badass and has a nice deep sound). If you save up and purchase it piece by piece and don't install it until you have everything, you will be amazed at the sound and the difference in power (although not much in numbers, your butt dyno will be off the charts). If you want to increase flow above the valves, you can get a better panel filter (either green, k&N, perrin, etc), bore your throttle body, and extrude-hone your intake manifold. If you want to keep with the N/A build, get yourself a piggyback ECU or standalone system, or get your ECU reflashed to reflect your mods (this can be done through I-Speed USA). If you don't want to go that crazy, an S-AFC should do the trick, -- with all of these we aren't talking 200whp, but any gains you can get are still better than the 110whp we have stock with the DOHC 2.5's.

Now after all this...I just hope you have a manual tranny so you can really enjoy the power you're gonna be getting! (no offense to you 4EAT guys!)

Oh yeah, almost forgot -- the timing belt -- if you haven't done it before and don't have the tools to do it, then I'd let a professional do it. Maybe just have the dealer do the timing belt and replace your cam and crank seals while they are at it (they are notorious for leaking, don't let them tell you otherwise, make sure they do it). Make sure they check to make sure your headgasket isn't leaking as well...start saving up now to get those replaced, because if the previous owner didn't tell you he had them replaced already, expect it to come soon if your car is at 90k...mine didn't blow until 127k, but they've gone as early as 60k (my brothers 2.5RS had his start leaking at 40k...luckily he was still under warranty and they said they'd replace them for free!). Find out what the 90k tune up normally involves, if its just replacing the air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs/wires, pcv valve and the like, you can do those and get better parts for cheaper than what you'd be paying them. Just have them do the timing belt and cam/crank seals, we'll help you with the rest.

[Reason]

As a Subaru and Honda owner, I can tell you first hand that anything you read or was told about a Honda does NOT apply with Subaru's. If you want to save gas and commute to work get a Honda, don't get me wrong I know a few friends with Hondas that can smoke any N/A Legacy here. A Subaru is for a true enthusiast period. I suggest working on the suspension and brakes. It's a whole different approach from the ricer scene. Unless you own a STi Subaru stays under the radar. What these guys are telling you is good advice. Some may be harsh but we don't want to see a riced out Subaru, God forbid a riced out Legacy. Like Ryan said feel free to ask and you shall get your answer!

[2deadlegs]

Hey man I got a crecent wrench and a hammer...bring your legacy by my house around midnight tonight and we'll get that timing belt done. It's real simple.

I'm just kidding. You could really mess your car up by doing it yourself if you are not 100% familiar with your car and tools. Besides that are other things you want to address while you have that belt off.

As for your other questions you should take this second to stop and theink about what you are trying to accomplish. You say you want performance but yet you want fuel economy. Does anyone see where I am going with this?

You have a great car and maybe you should be thankfull for what you do have for now and when you get out of college and get that job you are striving to achieve with the big paycheck, then you can get your STi.

Besides, if you start modding on a stock car that you depend on to get you back and forth everyday you are going to run into trouble.

Stick with intake and exhaust and maybe some nice wheels if you are happy with what you roll on. If that doesn't work you could get an ebay wing. That and some stickers are good for about 50whp. J/K

[The Black Knight]

After going through all your replies I can see who knows a thing or two about these cars, and who I can rely on for help. I am wondering what brands you guys recommend for the parts that I will be replacing for the tune up. Who do you guys go with for sparkplugs, filters, hoses, and the like? And can you give an estimate on what you guys think would be about right to spend on parts? I think at this point I'm going to schedule the car for the timing belt sometime next week, and I'm hoping a buddy of mine can help me do the rest of the work at my house. As long as you guys think everything else, like oil change and stuff is not too involved, I'll do it myself. I have been informed that I need to get a special ring for the oil plug which gets replaced evertime you change it. I'm thinking this is why there has been some leaking from the oil pan when I park the car. The previous owner did the oil changes himself and probably never changed the ring on the plug. Do you guys know what I'm talking about and how to get one? Also would you guys just use 5-W30 for the oil or would you recommend another grade, possibly synthetic, I really don't know. All ears are open. Thanks

[Wiscon_Mark]

As for oil....
Filter: OEM Subaru, Purolator...there are a few others that are good. Avoid FRAM (two reasons, they're cheapening their line, and they cause dry starts in boxer engines)
Oil: Mobil 1 synthetic or Castrol Syntech Synthetic 5W-30/10W-30 (look for the SAE seal of approval, that means good oil)
Sparkplugs:NGK is the one of choice around here, you can get any type you want, although I'd go w/ copper because of conductivity. They don't last as long, but the price difference makes up for it.
Air Filters: Green, K&N, Perrin...all good ones. Look them up at Boxer4racing or Rallitek (vendor links, boxer4racing is a.k.a. Teague's auto)
As for the ring....I've never heard that one...OEM works fine for me. Never had any leaking problems.

[2deadlegs]

Mark is starting to sound like me.

Personal prefrence...NGK V-power Copper plugs. Depending on how many miles you have on your car you could use a synthetic oil.

OEM for everything else...

[The Black Knight]

I first have to ask, what is OEM, and what does it do? Second, I was informed that I have platinum sparkplugs in my motor now, and I was wondering if it is necessary that I use the same type again. I don't believe that I have to, but I wasn't sure. Finally, I appreciate the advice on the oil and filters, do you guys know of any other things that need to be replaced regularly? I think I've covered my bases with oil filter, oil, air filter, and spark plugs. One other thing, do you recommend using a fuel additive to flush out any buildup that might be in the engine block or lines? I was told that with the 2.5l, since it have a slight lip between the intake and the piston that there can be carbon buildup there. Have any of you heard of that, and what do you recommend to do to fix it? I was told by the dealer that I should get an engine flush from them, which I think is just one of the bottles of fuel cleaner you can pick up at Napa or even Wallmart. Tell me what you all think. Thanks

[Wiscon_Mark]

OEM aka Factory Specifications aka Stock aka Original :D
Sparkplugs: For your engine, no, you can and should use copper. Conductivity for copper plugs is much better (about 4 times platinum and 2 times iridium). NGK is good stuff.
As for fuel cleaner, I'd say use Amsoil. It looks expensive, but it treats 160 gallons of fuel. it's like a condensed formula. So it's about as cost-effective as STP or marvel or any of the other stuff.
Other regular things...tire pressure, check for rust, you don't want that to get out of hand (like I did, see the Body and Cosmetics section), I can't think of anything else.

[Pwise2326]

Alright, well just to answer your one question about the special little ring thing on the oil plug, its called a crush washer, extremely cheap and easy to come by, just go to whatever parts store, tell them the year/make/model/engine size of your car and they'll find the one that fits. Basically all you do is slide off the old one and slide on the new one, doesnt matter which side, its all the same. When you tighten it down you "crush" the washer and create a great seal. You can reuse it a couple times, but you'll ahve to tighten the plug just a little more to keep crushing the washer. figure every 3 oil changes you should swap it out...then again there are many people that don't even know what it is if there's is even still on the plug.

[NDBBM]

My washer fell off the other day when I did my oil change. Only problem is I didn't find it in the dran pan till after I had put oil back in. I guess we'll see just how important it really is. :lol:

[Wiscon_Mark]

Check your parking spots, then! You could lose oil! And always carry a spare quart with you just in case.

[NDBBM]

I put a big sheet of cardboard under the car in the driveway. Should be pretty easy to spot a leak. I'll have to check when I get home from work and see if there are any new spots.

[Pwise2326]

Well its kinda too late now, but run to the auto store and pick some up for your next oil change...which may be soon if it all leaks out on ya. Unfortunately for me my car is leaking out of every cam and crank seal, so it looks like I'll end up replacing my crush washer sooner than expected when I change those out.

[Reason]

OEM or OE= Original Egiupment/manufactured. I use a K&N oil filter with Mobil 1 Synthetic, I also have a K&N air filter. As for the ring with the oil plug you are better off getting it. They don't cost much if any. I bought new calipers last summer and the guy there gave me a handful of the plug rings. For the spark plugs yea the copper would be better, but I find changing spark plugs a pain in the ASS. So I use NGK double platinum, they last longer and I don't have to change them much. Other tune up goodies should be a PCV valve and fuel filter. You could do plug wires too but thats up to you. I'll give a list of what I have to give an example of good parts for maintenance:

K&N Oil filter
Mobil 1 Synthetic oil
K&N Air filter
NGK double platinum spark plugs
Nology "Hotwires" spark plug wires
Bosch premium fuel filter
Purolator PCV valve

I think thats it,,,,when it comes down to things like this it's more personal preference than anything. I can tell you I have this stuff because I think it's the best crap out there. The next guy could give you a different list and say the same. All you can do is listen and decide for yourself. Have fun...

[Pwise2326]

One word of caution if you've never changed a fuel filter before: Make sure you a.) keep your car off for at least 3 hours prior to changing the fuel filter to make sure the engine is cold, you don't want anything setting off any vapors that will be released.

b.) you MUST relieve the pressure built up in the fuel system -- this is accomplished by opening up your gas door and removing the gas cap, then removing your rear seat (in sedans, wagons have it easy) and look for the access plate to the fuel pump/sending unit. Remove the cover and unplug the electrical connector from the fuel pump (should be big and white in color). Now start the engine and allow it to run until it dies.

c.) DISCONNECT THE NEGATIVE CABLE FROM YOUR BATTERY -- this will prevent any unexpected sparks or live wires that would ignite the gas.

d.) Place some shop rags underneath the fuel filter (which is located on the driver side of the engine compartment near the brake master cylinder) to prevent any gas that may drip out when you remove the old filter from splashing all over your engine.

e.) Loosen all the clamps and slide them down the hoses past where the fittings of the filter end. Carefully twist and tug on the hoses to get them off the filter, replace any bad ones (brown, cracked, crusty, etc). Unclip the filter bracket, and out with the old and in with the new (make sure to notice how the old one is oriented and pop the new on in just the same -- worse comes to worse they make it easy with a big "IN" stamped on the fuel filter in front of the inlet from the fuel pump. Attach all the hoses, move the clamps back over and tighten them down. Wipe up any gas that may have leaked out.

f.) Reconnect the negative terminal of your battery and the wiring plug for the fuel pump under your backseat. Start your car and check the hoses on the filter for any leaks. Put that access plate cover back on and put in your rear seat, and you are good to go. It may sound like a pain in the but, but its really not that hard to do, and you'll end up saving yourself quite a bit of money.

With the spark plugs, you first need to DISCONNECT THE NEGATIVE TERMINAL OF YOUR BATTERY! Pull the boot of the plug wire off the plug (use a boot puller tool if you have one, but good luck using it on a boxer engine!) -- make sure you only pull from the boot! Once you get those off, the struggle begins. Unscrew the old spark plugs and remove them (becareful not to force it and strip any threads!). Now its time for the new plugs: no matter which you get, check the specs of your vehicle and be sure to gap your spark plugs appropriately (to gap the plugs use a wire-type gauge (found at all auto part stores) and adjust the side electrode (NOT the little one in the center of the plug) by bending it slightly which ever way, just be careful not to touch/chip/crack the center electrode and the porcelain insulator around it. Adjust as necessary until the wire type gauge slides between the two electrodes with a slight drag. Slap on some anti-seize on the threads on the electrode side so the next time you have to change them you won't need a 10ft. long torque bar. Put a rubber hose if you have it over the other threads that will connect to the boot to help you align the spark plug and prevent cross-threading: if the plug starts to cross thread when you go to screw it in the hose will twist on the end of the plug preventing plug damage, realign and try again, attach your plug wires and make sure they fit nice and tight, and there you go. Reconnect your battery and start her up, she should run quite a bit better!

Other easy tune-up tidbits to come!

[jey]

I've forgotten to put on the gasket for the drain plug a few times - never has it resulted in a lot of oil leakage that you can tell from even putting a piece of paper under thecar. But I have noticed it trickle out and onto the surface fo the oil pan from there - could get nasty as it builds up all over the bottom of the engine/tranny/car as you drive. Not a huge problem though.