View Full Version : Raptor Supercharged 04 Legacy
dubkeith
05-06-2009, 01:51 AM
Thought i would show a pic of the \raptor supercharger installed on my 04 Legacy BH.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/05/2vagx2a-1.jpg
For those that arent familiar with it, the kit is designed in Australia for the 2.5rs and 2.0RX models. Unfortunately, there are a few differences between the RS it was designed for and my Legacy.
Things I had to modify:
-Power steering pump mounting bolts are 60mm on some models and 7Xmm on the kit bracket. I had to add and remove material to the bracket, measure and drill for the proper bolt spacing.
-Power steering lines are hard lines to the pump so they had to be "manipulated" to clear the charger.
-Small amount of trimming to a couple brackets to the to clear the first bend from the compressor housing.
I'm running an E-manage Ultimate for e/m, but the kit comes with a nice Pro-Sequential system that seems to be pretty easy to use.
Over all the charger is wicked nice! I had a Rotrex before it that was destined for the legacy, but the fact that the Raptor uses no oil or cooling lines appealed to me so i bought the kit without the plumbing (planned on using a top mount and baja hood, but with 5psi there isnt enough heat built up to justify it), engine management and a few other bits.
I still need to build an airbox to be a little more all-weather friendly and to quiet it down a bit. It is LOUD!!!
Very cool. I like that the Aussies do have some S/C kits available for those who don't want to deal with the turbocharging overhead.
dubkeith
05-06-2009, 02:02 AM
Yeah, its nice to have some choice. My original plan was a turbo, but the Raptor kit was so easy looking that i sold everything i had for the turbo set up.
Raptor is puting a kit together for north american cars that will be a quick and painless install.
rougeben83
05-06-2009, 08:09 AM
looks good, how's the emanage in tuning it? So the raptor s/c contains its own oil supply? Still running stock injectors? IIRC our engines are topfeeds like the GD WRX's...
dubkeith
05-06-2009, 09:41 AM
The e-manage is questionable. Might be just me, but it seems rediculously complicated for simple tasks like simple fuel and ignition maps.
Still on stock injectors, yes. , the test vehicle showed no need for injectors, but i'll keep my eye out for any issues on my car. When you say "our cars have top feeds", do you mean BE/BH's or??? I didnt think there was a simple injector swap for our cars aside from using adaptors or fuels rails. Thatd be real nice if i could swap to a slightly larger injector. I was thinking i would just have mine modified for more flow if needed.
No oil in the Raptor charger! Runs ceramic bearings and a belt driven gear reduction internally and is completely dry. Wierd, i know.
rougeben83
05-06-2009, 09:58 AM
The e-manage is questionable. Might be just me, but it seems rediculously complicated for simple tasks like simple fuel and ignition maps.
Still on stock injectors, yes. , the test vehicle showed no need for injectors, but i'll keep my eye out for any issues on my car. When you say "our cars have top feeds", do you mean BE/BH's or??? I didnt think there was a simple injector swap for our cars aside from using adaptors or fuels rails. Thatd be real nice if i could swap to a slightly larger injector. I was thinking i would just have mine modified for more flow if needed.
No oil in the Raptor charger! Runs ceramic bearings and a belt driven gear reduction internally and is completely dry. Wierd, i know.
Yeah BE/BH's. IIRC when I looked at the injectors on my old engine they were top feed (if the electric plug is on the side and the fuel rail connects to the top of the injector, and the injector body looks like a narrow tube, its a top feed). You can use the stock wrx injectors, theyre 430cc IIRC, vs 3xx cc on stock N/A's You should be able to adjust the scaling for fuel map via emanage with that...run a couple of psi higher. Still ok w/o any IC.
You can also look into air to water IC like on some of the older Legacy's. I had a setup pieced together using a legacy awic, a centripuppy sewage pump, and a heat exchanger from a cobra. It'll allow you to have intercooling without needing a scoop (and is actually much more efficient than air to air).
That's kind of funky about the raptor being a dry S/C, I should read up on that. I thought that it would be like some of those roots type blowers that have their own oil inside but as long as it works...
d1giPhux
05-06-2009, 11:40 AM
How much it cost you? Is the 5psi noticeable? Looks cool.. wish we had more stuff like this over here.
rougeben83
05-06-2009, 12:04 PM
How much it cost you? Is the 5psi noticeable? Looks cool.. wish we had more stuff like this over here.
The 2.5RS kit sells for 2500USD, not sure if that's what dubkeith got though...
http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97081
If it's proven reliable I think it's a pretty good middle-road option for guys that have run out of bolt-ons...
Looking at the pic again, have you thought about routing the cone filter into the fender-well? I think if you get a 90 deg elbow on the intake, it's a pretty straight shot into the hole on the pass. side fender...
impreza_GC8
05-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Very interesting, props for being different.
Airgne
05-06-2009, 09:06 PM
finally somone has done this to a 3rd gen. i have wanted to this for a long time now. how are the power gains? do you have any vid of how loud it is? what is the most psi you can run?
dubkeith
05-07-2009, 12:17 AM
I paid a little under $2500 for the charger, brackets, filter, bypass valve, cooling sys., belt and hardware. That also included shipping from Aus. to me.
Haven't run the 5.9psi pulley yet. I made a larger pulley to play with tuning without hurting anything. The 3 psi it's at now is pretty good. No rocket, but far faster than stock.
The charger is good for about 14psi, but raptor only warrantees it up to 10.
As far as the filter position, I'm building an airbox for it to keep some weather out and some sound in. It will be fed fresh air from the fender port.
I'll get a video of it running asap. The video of the first start up is mostly drowned out by me screaming for evryone to come see and that they should all suck &?!# for thinking it would blow up in the first 10 revolutions.
I love it so far. I'm just terrified of the emanage ultimate so once I get it sorted, I'll throw the 6 psi pulley on. In the cold, I'm developing some piston slap so I'm going to throw some 9:1 pistons in before next winter.
Airgne
05-07-2009, 12:26 AM
what is the cooling sys on the charger? whats the clerance between the firewall and pipe? i have a throttle body spacer, so would like to know if i would have to take it off or not. sorry i will be asking alot of questions, as i really want to do this.
rougeben83
05-07-2009, 03:47 AM
I paid $2300 cdn. for the charger, brackets, filter, bypass valve, cooling sys., belt and hardware. That also included shipping from Aus. to me.
Haven't run the 5.9psi pulley yet. I made a larger pulley to play with tuning without hurting anything. The 3 psi it's at now is pretty good. No rocket, but far faster than stock.
The charger is good for about 14psi, but raptor only warrantees it up to 10.
As far as the filter position, I'm building an airbox for it to keep some weather out and some sound in. It will be fed fresh air from the fender port.
I'll get a video of it running asap. The video of the first start up is mostly drowned out by me screaming for evryone to come see and that they should all suck &?!# for thinking it would blow up in the first 10 revolutions.
I love it so far. I'm just terrified of the emanage ultimate so once I get it sorted, I'll throw the 6 psi pulley on. In the cold, I'm developing some piston slap so I'm going to throw some 9:1 pistons in before next winter.
I've heard the MAP ecu's can learn around certain piggybacks (like emanage...at least this has happened on more than one occasion on a 2.5RS), this usually is only for closed loop operation though. On open loop, ie when you go WOT, the piggyback can still do its thing and keep your engine from blowing up.
dubkeith
05-07-2009, 09:36 AM
Questions are welcome...
The cooling system consists of a small compressor (fan in a tube) that flows fresh air through the reduction case. It's kinda hokey really but it would work I guess. The raptor chargers on the porsches don't have the cooling ports at all, but Tim added them to the smaller chargers just incase.
There is ample room between the firewall and t-body on the stock tubing. Mine is a mandrel U bend and the way I have it set up, there is about an inch. The included piping is two 90* bends and offer much more room.
As far as the learning around the emanage, I haven't
heard of that at all. It'l suck now doubt. Guess I'll have
to keep an eye out, but I've heard just the opposite so
far. Here's to hoping...
Airgne, if you're thinking about this kit, Tim at Raptor is a really good guy to deal with. The first kit he sent me disapeared when it landed in Vancouver. Instead of waiting for it to be found, he just built another kit (mine was the second kit made after the test kit) and sent it out trusting that i'd send the first kit back if it showed up. The price of this kit really is really cheap. The charger is just a masterpiece!
I played with the cooling ports last night and realized that I'd rather use the vacume from the airbox the suck fresh air through the chargers cooling port with a filter at one end. It also quiets the charger down quite a bit as well.
rougeben83
05-07-2009, 05:56 PM
Yeah def, I would imaging using the stock intake scoop on the passenger side can allow you to better direct air to either the cooling port or the intake, whichever you decide.
I put back the plastic scoop on my car and I think it really helps direct air to the intake and prevent so much heatsoak since the turbo is right behind the cone filter too.
Airgne
05-10-2009, 02:27 PM
sits and waits for video of drive by or outside from a car next to you.
BigLooga1
05-12-2009, 05:37 AM
That is awesome!!!
VIN CODE 6
05-13-2009, 01:17 AM
I've been looking to do the same setup on my 98' LGT. I was considering e-manage as well but now maybe not if it's such a pita! I'm curious about the pp8 but I don't think it will plug n play. Hopefully raptor will have there piggyback for MAF cars soon. Keep the updates coming!
hellaGT
05-13-2009, 02:56 AM
Although the price of about $2,500 may still be too much for some subie owners right now (myself included), it still is a nice alternative for those thinkning of (or considering) dropping 5 to $6,000 on a WRX swap. It also gives you more freedom to reverse the mod if necessary (for disatisfaction or selling the car).
It seems reliable, efficient and fairly easy to install. The piggy back that comes with the kit will aslo benefit any future modifications. If you get the intercooler you can still make that hood scoop functional!!! :smt023
will be looking for those pics, vids and other reviews.
dubkeith
05-14-2009, 01:50 AM
I've been looking to do the same setup on my 98' LGT. I was considering e-manage as well but now maybe not if it's such a pita! I'm curious about the pp8 but I don't think it will plug n play. Hopefully raptor will have there piggyback for MAF cars soon. Keep the updates coming!
Oh you'd have no problems with the emanate on your 98, my problem is that I think I'm the only person to have tried an emanate ultimate on a 4 plug ecu. I don't have the luxury oh having someone else already done the trial and error.
dubkeith
05-14-2009, 01:56 AM
The learning around should not be an issue. Let the ecu run in closed loop as long as it can, then make it think it is running closed loop and the emu alters the signals to the injectors etc. Open loop still isn't an issue. I haven't had to pull any timing yet at 3 psi, just adding fuel (94 octane).
rougeben83
05-14-2009, 02:09 AM
The learning around should not be an issue. Let the ecu run in closed loop as long as it can, then make it think it is running closed loop and the emu alters the signals to the injectors etc. Open loop still isn't an issue. I haven't had to pull any timing yet at 3 psi, just adding fuel (94 octane).
Yeah, it doesn't change the open loop fuel map so the emanage will still work...which is the important bit to begin with. Just the partial throttle drivability thing may have some issues.
You may just want to put an AFR gauge or at the very least an EGT or boost gauge (yeah even at 3psi, those things can save your butt :grin: ) to monitor engine condition.
And post up vids dammit, I'm calling shenanigans until you do! :smt030
Grafton
05-14-2009, 07:44 AM
i have been looking into this for about 2 weeks, even e-mailed them to ask about cold weather issues, doesn't seem to have em', but now i am loooking for a phase 2 ej25 to swap into my car, cheaper and less parts than a wrx :)
dubkeith
05-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Dear god! Why would you want to put the least reliable motor subaru will ever make in your car? Phase 2 2.5's ie: EJ253/1's are JUNK! Piston slap is pretty much guarenteed... There are tons of rod bearing failures too. This kit will bolt riht onto an EJ22. If you want a reliable motor that can take a hit, just put some pistons and cometic or cosworth head gaskets in yours.
Fair enouh Rougeben, i'll get some kin of vid up. :smile:
Even at partial throttle, with the map sensor clamped, the ecu doesnt know anything has changed. Its going amungst its business thinking the car is under nomal running conditions and sending fuel and ignition signals as normal. The piggyback has its own map sensor sensing the actual manifold pressure and rpm and supplies the pre-mapped signals to inectors an coil accordingly.
VIN CODE 6
05-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Does E-manage allow you to use MAF or MAP or do you have to convert to a MAP sensor setup? Also did Raptor send you the pro-sequential, just curious how much this differed from the e-manage? I'm thinking I could make the pro-sequential work by adapting a Greddy PnP harness and converting to a MAP sensor but? Also did you order directly from Raptor or through a shop? Sorry for all of the questions, good luck with the tuning!
StatGSR
05-17-2009, 08:53 PM
Always cool to see a SCed suby.
Wish you woulda went with a Rotrex tho, those things are ridiculously awesome superchargers, pretty much the ideal form of boost IMO.
dubkeith
05-17-2009, 08:59 PM
The Emanage allows you to use whatever you want (maf or map). It will clamp the maf or map voltage to whatever the ecu needs to think all is normal. At that point, the emanage's map sensor takes over to tell the Emanage how much fuel to add or spark to retard.
To clearify, I think i'm being too hard on the EMU. Its the fact that my car is auto that is making it difficult. The EMU is an amazing unt. It really will do whatever you want it to.
I bought it direct from Raptor. He took paypal an is one of the best vendors i have had the pleasure of dealing with. I did not get the Pro Sequential as i already had the emanage for my previous plans. You shouldnt have to convert to map at all. The pro sequential will take care of the clamping, or you can build a voltage clamp. Or, companies like Split Second and i'm sure more than a fe others can supply one for you.
dubkeith
05-17-2009, 09:07 PM
Always cool to see a SCed suby.
Wish you woulda went with a Rotrex tho, those things are ridiculously awesome superchargers, pretty much the ideal form of boost IMO.
I love the Rorex too, but the Raptor really is a work of art. The no oil thing really is awesome.
subba
05-19-2009, 03:39 PM
i regret swapping my legacy now :(
Thanks for sharing the reviews, but how much different does it feel from stock?
does your girl notice the car is faster? <-- ultimate test lol
I thought about buying a B4 Legacy, strip it of its POS twin turbo system and slap on a supercharger and run big boost :smt030
dubkeith
05-20-2009, 09:42 PM
Its a totally different car! Even at 3 PSI, the motor is completely transformed into a much freer revving motor with a super smooth power increase past redline. At 5-6 psi, it doesnt even resemble an ej25. I kinda feels like a modern V8 with loads of torque and top end too. Or, i imagine it feels like what the car would drive like if it were 1000lbs lighter.
Yeah, the wife noticed right away because i no longer drive like an old man. I had given up on trying to drive the car sportingly as there was just no point. (auto trans)
I thought about buying a B4 Legacy, strip it of its POS twin turbo system and slap on a supercharger and run big boost :smt030
Can you guys import RHD cars newer than 15 years old there? Theres a 94 TT Legacy that just landed in Vancouver for cheap. Looks like too much fun, but i don't know how long i'd like the rhd.
subba
05-20-2009, 10:36 PM
we can import anything here lol literally, anything on wheels, i see people buying trailer park trailers and isht :neutral:
dubkeith
05-20-2009, 10:59 PM
Thats pretty sweet! Paradise and a choice of any car in the world! You can't street legal quads can you?
subba
05-21-2009, 10:40 AM
i doubt it, their are some that are road worthy but its pure old geisers running the Licensing Dept.
I just thought about it, i wish they had a kit for the Lexxus IS200 :(
I would just boost this bish lol
dubkeith
05-21-2009, 11:42 PM
Speaking of lexus...
At risk of sounding ricey, anybody know what kind or bypass/blow off valve sounds like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeia7IjhFEs
rougeben83
05-22-2009, 11:12 AM
Speaking of lexus...
At risk of sounding ricey, anybody know what kind or bypass/blow off valve sounds like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeia7IjhFEs
sounds like an older hks ssqv. or it could be compressor surge, I don't see any BOV, which is usually placed near the tb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DZsv0ADDI
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.