Someone school me on JDM BG5's?

[Zac]

so now in canada we can import 1994 legacys and i'm in the market for one! I was wondering what models were available in that year and what options they had and such and if I could swap over my suspension and projector lights if they did not come with them in that year.

[chuckthefuk]

Every single suspension part and all body panels are identical. Interior is identical but the dash/center console is different (RHD)

All JDM models have the amber-less tail lights. I am not 100% sure which model comes with which but there are two styles of head lights. The Projector type which you have and then these
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/09/1993BG5SubaruLegacyGTWagon01_01-1.jpg

BG5 = Twin Turbo EJ20.

Ej20H/G - Basic ej20 turbo motor

1993-1999 Legacy chassis code BD/BG5 JDM GT's ( 183 kW (249 PS; 245 bhp) manual & automatic wagons)
hydraulic lifters
cast internals
7000 recomended revlimit

EJ20R/K - GTB/STI Engine Base "late 1996 to early 1998"

1993-1999 Legacy chassis code BD/BG5 JDM RS-B and GT-B's (205 kW (279 PS; 275 bhp) Manual)
Bucket and shim heads
Forged pistons
different cams
7500 recommended revlimit
can take more punishment than the H,

GT-B's come with Bilstein Suspension.


"The H motor has Coil on plug with an ignitor and the R motor has Coil on plug that receives its signal straight from the ECU."

These motors are designed to run 98 ron which the american equivalent is 93 octain. 98 ron =93.2 octain (So Shell V-Power 93 is what you have to use)

"both turbos together produce 14.5 PSI stock. both turbos can be set to 16 psi each but I dont like pushing the motor to its limit."

IIRC no LSD :neutral:

So much info... -->> http://www.rs25.com/forums/f128/t84519- ... -swap.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f128/t84519-twin-turbo-engine-swap.html)

Earlier style GT Bumper
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/09/leggyfront-1.jpg

Later style GT Bumper
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1940/jdmbumper.jpg
GTB Bumper
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/09/NewGTB1-1.jpg
----
You sure you want a RHD car? Making a left is suicide in Toronto.

To each their own enjoy
-Chuck

[Zac]

I dont live in toronto so that wont be a problem plus alot of people drive RHD cars and they get used to it. From what I read the twin turbos arent very reliable? I'm comming from a EJ22 which is bullet proof and I beat on everyday, I need something to get back and forth too work. you sure it needs 93? I wont be safe running with just 91 octane?

[chuckthefuk]

Meh. Toronto, Montreal who cares... Lefts are a pain..

I am pretty sure it needs 93. Running a turbocharger usually needs a higher octane. But meh STi's can run on 91. Probably not a big deal but you should do some research before you decide.

Whats more reliable then a USDM EJ22?

-Chuck

[Zac]

well to swap my legacy and get all the body work redone I could prob buy a 2005 legacy GT wagon for that price so I would rather get a 1994 twin turbo one where I can still salvage some parts from mine to put on it :)

RHD is the least of my worries about owning a JDM car.

[chuckthefuk]

Go for it. If you can afford a tune go to neetronics in Oakville there excellent and very friendly.

-Chuck

[Zac]

they can tune the JDM cars to run on 91 octane?

[chuckthefuk]

they can tune the JDM cars to run on 91 octane?

Yes.

[anothernord]

Great info chuck.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

BD...245 hp...stock :shock:

[chuckthefuk]

BD...245 hp...stock :shock:
and 279hp for the ej20r

But these are just "flywheel" numbers.... so expect a 20-30% loss.

-Chuck

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Yea but that goes for all AWD Subarus its still a BD with well over 200 whp, but now I see why so many people talk about doing a single turbo conversion and all that I never understood why they didn't just do a WRX swap but there good for 227 hp sure they will go a lot higher with mods but id like to do a swap and get 280 hp right off the bat plus these have fully closed decks right? And a 7500 rpm redline thats fricken honda territory.

[Zac]

Thanks! Anyone have a vacuum diagram for the engine? Just want to see if its as complicated as people say they are.

[chuckthefuk]

Diagrams:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15520&p=176763#p176763 (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15520&p=176763#p176763)

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120106

....
-Chuck

[Sarra]

Uhh... I thought the Legacy Twin Turbo came with LSD in the rear? Not 100% positive, but I am pretty sure that just about every turbo car Subaru made had a Rear LSD post 1990, well, except the Loyale turbo.

[chuckthefuk]

Uhh... I thought the Legacy Twin Turbo came with LSD in the rear? Not 100% positive, but I am pretty sure that just about every turbo car Subaru made had a Rear LSD post 1990, well, except the Loyale turbo.

LSD is an option from Subaru when you buy the car. At least in the 90's

My friend purchased a version 5 swap with all items properly documented and the rear diff was open @ 4.44

-Chuck

[jey]

Uhh... I thought the Legacy Twin Turbo came with LSD in the rear? Not 100% positive, but I am pretty sure that just about every turbo car Subaru made had a Rear LSD post 1990, well, except the Loyale turbo.

Except Subaru was quit putting rear LSDs in their cars. 08+ WRX, 09 Forester XT, 2010 Legacy GT, none have rear LSDs anymore :(

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Uhh... I thought the Legacy Twin Turbo came with LSD in the rear? Not 100% positive, but I am pretty sure that just about every turbo car Subaru made had a Rear LSD post 1990, well, except the Loyale turbo.

Except Subaru was quit putting rear LSDs in their cars. 08+ WRX, 09 Forester XT, 2010 Legacy GT, none have rear LSDs anymore :(
Most people dont know what they do and dont wana pay the extra money

[hallowpoint]

^^^but they have lsd center diff

[Canuck 2.5GT]

Hey guys, I live just outside of Toronto, I'm awaiting delivery of my JDM 94 Legacy GT Wagon. Wondering which exhausts will fit. Are the catback sections the same as a GC/GD impreza? What about a downpipe? Everyone of my Subbies has had an exhaust, just wondering what to look for.

[chuckthefuk]

Jason its Arubus from TSC go with impreza mockups. Save big!

-Chuck

[Kilroy]

Hey guys, I live just outside of Toronto, I'm awaiting delivery of my JDM 94 Legacy GT Wagon. Wondering which exhausts will fit. Are the catback sections the same as a GC/GD impreza? What about a downpipe? Everyone of my Subbies has had an exhaust, just wondering what to look for.

Did you manage to find new downpipes?

[chuckthefuk]

^^^^^^^^^^^
I think Canuck sold his GT... I'v seen it for sale on Kijiji for a few months now.

-Chuck

[Kilroy]

Damn, I was hoping he had found some downpipes. I have only been able to find retail downpipes through H&S Exhaust in the UK. I can have them fabricated locally, but even with the additional cost of shipping from the UK the H&S pipes are cheaper.

[chuckthefuk]

I am sure an exhaust shop can fab up a downpipe for you. 3x mandrel bends and 2 flanges + skillful welding.

-Chuck

[Kilroy]

I am sure an exhaust shop can fab up a downpipe for you. 3x mandrel bends and 2 flanges + skillful welding.

-Chuck


Been there, done that. Still cheaper from H&S.

[chuckthefuk]

What exactly is the cost of the H&S.. I'v fabricated many parts for less then the metal was worth.
-Chuck

[Kilroy]

What exactly is the cost of the H&S.. I'v fabricated many parts for less then the metal was worth.
-Chuck

This is all stainless steel and there are more than 3 mandrels and 2 flanges required. There are actually 6 mandrels and 5 flanges required, 7 flanges if you want to keep the flex pipe. The secondary side is 3" all the way to the Y pipe, the primary side is 3" restricting to 2.5" at the Y pipe to help control over boost. This bolts up to 3" pipe from the Y back. Mendrel bends have gone through the roof lately. I just recently waited 8 weeks for a local shop I had decided to do the job for me to get their bends in stock. At the time I give them the go ahead, they told me the bends would be $24 each and the total to fab and install would be in the $500-$600 range. They get the bends in stock and the price of the mandrel bends TRIPLED! They had shown me their book price before I said "OK", but when they ordered their stock they found out the crazy jump in price. I still let them go ahead with the job and got a call mid-afternoon that this was now going to be a 2-3 day job as they had to remove many parts including the TMIC. I told them to stop working on my vehicle and put it back together as I didn't want them touching anything in my engine bay. Obviously they had no idea what they were getting themselves into from the start.

Pricing on the H&S downpipes is $730 plus shipping and I know I will be getting something that will bolt right in. They have been making these pipes for years. I will be installing the pipes with my engine builder, just to be sure there are no issues when taking apart whatever is required in the engine bay. I had considered fabricating the downpipes myself (I own a steel fab shop), but would rather spend that time making money in the shop and having somebody who has made these take care of it to be sure it is done correctly.

[Sarra]

Uhh... I thought the Legacy Twin Turbo came with LSD in the rear? Not 100% positive, but I am pretty sure that just about every turbo car Subaru made had a Rear LSD post 1990, well, except the Loyale turbo.

Except Subaru was quit putting rear LSDs in their cars. 08+ WRX, 09 Forester XT, 2010 Legacy GT, none have rear LSDs anymore :(
Most people dont know what they do and dont wana pay the extra money

*Facepalm* The Spec B doesn't even have a VLSD center diff, nor does it have DCCD. The Traction Control took care of wheel spin elimination. ABS sensor would see a wheel spinning, and the VCD would activate the ABS for that wheel until the wheel spin stopped. Thus, you don't need a viscous coupler in the center diff, nor a clutch diff, locker, or anything else.

This eliminates parasitic drivetrain loss while driving on the freeway for better mileage. It's also more effective than viscous couplers.

I'd rather have good old clutch center and rear diffs with a viscous coupler in the front diff for LSD duties. DCCD for the center and a driver controllable rear diff would be nice.

The other thing is... Most people don't need limited slips. How many people do you know pound on their cars in the snow? I've had 5 Subies, and only one had a LSD in the back, and believe me, I've gone places where a rear LSD would have been amazingly helpful. But that was really an exception, I was on a logging road in snow. Otherwise, LSD or not, it doesn't make any difference to most people.

[Reuben]

Just some corrections to things i've spotted in this thread.

Pictured above is a white kouki bumper, and my GTB limited. The face lift was in 1996 with the BG5B, which is when they introduced the GTB. Both GT and GTB got the same body kit. But with the GT, you had to option the bump strips and lips painted, where the GTB that was standard. In 97 they introduced the BG5C, which was largely unchanged, but they introduced the GTB Limited. Wagon only, and with the special bumper.

ALL turbo subies have rear LSD's (Well, before 08 i take it). They are just R160's though, and viscous.

And sarra, LSD's are bloody nice to have. My ex girlfriends impreza often got stuck when she parked outside my house on the grass. My GTB never had that problem. And with STi power at the rear wheels in a GTB, LSD's also are very handy. I dare not think how loose they would be in the back end without one, it's already easy enough to step the arse out.

No BG's turbo's have traction controll, whatsoever. First turbo to get anything was the 98 BH GT VDC. That was GT only, and auto only.


To continue, yes, catbacks are the same as GC8 WRX's. The midpipe is about 5cm longer though, and one of the midpipe hangers needs to be relocated, that is all. Heres a pic of my stock midpipe, along side an aftermarket GC8 pipe i bought. End pipes and mufflers will be specific to BG's though, but no worries, i bought my HKS (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/Pilot_Reuben/zaust4.jpg) from japan (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/Pilot_Reuben/hksbox.jpg) easy.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/07/zaust2-1.jpg

[Reuben]

Hokay, history on the BG GT

First seen in 1993. Originally offered was the GT, or the RS. The GT was the wagon, the RS was the sedan, there wasn't much different. But, you could buy a GT sedan, these were auto only and full leather.
The BG5A came with the first revision EJ20H twin turbo, with VF13/14 turbo's, or in later cars, VF16/17's. VF13's are notoriously unreliable.. These engines also make 180 ish kw.

There was a few cool options, like the sexy BBS mesh wheels, spoilers, mudflaps, sunroofs etc. All came with the non-airbag, 3-spoke momo steering wheels. The BG5B's came with airbag 4-spoke momo's. If cruise control was optioned, i THINK they came with the standard steering wheel. Never seen a BG momo with cruise control.

In 1996, the BG5B came out. This was the face lift, and introduced the GTB. Both GT, and GTB got the same body kits, grilles, projector headlights, tinted tails, bucket seats etc. Though i think the buckets had to be optioned on the GT's (But some did indeed come with). The GT's got a revised EJ20H, which IIRC made 190kw, and is indistinguishable from an EJ20R, which is the 206KW GTB engine. Auto GTB's btw got the same ol 20H as the GT's though, so avoid auto's!

The difference is in the power though, and what's bolted on. The EJ20R came with the STi and WRX 440cc yellow injectors, large diameter orange airflow meter, 7500rpm redline, bigger turbo's (VF18/19), STi gearbox and much more. GTB's also came with larger 294mm brakes, 17x7" wheels, bilstein suspension, bigger 19mm front and rear sway bars, and more.

In 97, the BG5C came out, much was the same, though i think allot of the optional parts on the GT's became standard. This is also when they introduced the GTB limited, which was basically a different bumper, woodgrain momo wheel, and woodgrain momo gear knob. I think limiteds were just mostly option packs.

In mid 98, they stopped making the BG in japan, and introduced the BH, with the phase-II, OBD-II engines, multi link rear suspension, alloy control arms and much more little goodies. The last BG5 GT, was the MY97 BG5C, just so you know.


A note on known reliability issues with BG GT's. BG5A's, have the VF13's dieing issue. BG5B and C GTB's, with the EJ20R (the manual GTB's) have notorious GTB big end bearing unreliability. These suckers pop out beb's like the EJ25's do headgaskets!!! WHACH OUT WHEN BUYING THESE CARS. IF THE ENGINE HAS BEEN REPLACED, AVOID. Unless it's stated they have used an EJ20R, because it's very common practise to drop in EJ20Hs, when the 20R's pop.

I bileave the BG5B's will be available soon in canada, so keep an eye out! GTB's are truly fantastic cars, just try to get one that's not died, and shows no signs of dieing.

[Sarra]

Just some corrections to things i've spotted in this thread.

Pictured above is a white kouki bumper, and my GTB limited. The face lift was in 1996 with the BG5B, which is when they introduced the GTB. Both GT and GTB got the same body kit. But with the GT, you had to option the bump strips and lips painted, where the GTB that was standard. In 97 they introduced the BG5C, which was largely unchanged, but they introduced the GTB Limited. Wagon only, and with the special bumper.

ALL turbo subies have rear LSD's (Well, before 08 i take it). They are just R160's though, and viscous.

And sarra, LSD's are bloody nice to have. My ex girlfriends impreza often got stuck when she parked outside my house on the grass. My GTB never had that problem. And with STi power at the rear wheels in a GTB, LSD's also are very handy. I dare not think how loose they would be in the back end without one, it's already easy enough to step the arse out.

No BG's turbo's have traction controll, whatsoever. First turbo to get anything was the 98 BH GT VDC. That was GT only, and auto only.


To continue, yes, catbacks are the same as GC8 WRX's. The midpipe is about 5cm longer though, and one of the midpipe hangers needs to be relocated, that is all. Heres a pic of my stock midpipe, along side an aftermarket GC8 pipe i bought. End pipes and mufflers will be specific to BG's though, but no worries, i bought my HKS (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/Pilot_Reuben/zaust4.jpg) from japan (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/Pilot_Reuben/hksbox.jpg) easy.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/07/zaust2-1.jpg

IIRC, the 1990-1994 Legacy SS didn't have a rear LSD on all of them. I might be wrong about that... Hard to find difinitive info on it.

The 2000+ Legacy GT does have a rear LSD, the 2001+ Outback has a rear LSD, however... The 2005+ turbos either have VDC on the Outbacks and Legacy which uses the brakes for LSD function, or a mechanical LSD on the Impreza. In 2008 or so they changed it over to the VDC style on everything.

I can say that when offroading in my 2000 Legacy L (no LSD in the back), I got stuck a lot. My 1998 LGT, with no LSD, never got stuck. The WRX is a little bit more sure footed though, and it does have the LSD int he back.

But to be honest, having a shitty center coupler LSD sucks more than having an open diff in the back. Doing FWD burnouts going up steep ice covered hills just blows. Subaru sells upgrade center couplers. I'd also go for a 1 way clutch type front LSD, or a viscous LSD, and a clutch type for the rear.

DCCD is the next step up for center diff, but it usually requires an entire tranny.

[Reuben]

Sarra, are you talking USDM or JDM? This threads about JDM man. I would have held my loud mouth if we were talking US spec, but the OP wants to learn about JDM.