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Thread: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bumper

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    Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bumper

    Finally getting ready to deal with (some) new paint on the wife's GT Wagon. Adding a GT-B Limited front bumper as well. The car is a 1998 Legacy GT Wagon in Black Granite Pearl, Subaru paint code 54A.

    As mentioned in the thread Ask a detailer!, I have a problem with the original factory paint, sometimes referred to as "crow's feet", "checking", or "crappy Subaru paint" lol. There is some checking on most of the upward-facing surfaces such as the roof, tops of the fenders, and the top edges of the doors. The checking is especially bad on the hood, and has been like this since we bought the car over two and a half years ago:



    The sides and trunk area look pretty good though, considering it's age. I spent several days cleaning, polishing, and buffing scratches out of the paint all over the exterior. It will never be perfect, but it shines nicely and several of the clearcoat scratches came out fairly well.

    Before scratch correction:


    After scratch correction:


    There is nothing I can do for the checking, however, and it was explained to me that it will only get worse, until the clearcoat completely fails.

    So what I need to have done - for sure - is paint this bumper:


    I need to get the hood refinished as well. I also have several trim pieces to paint, including JDM spats, sidemarkers, folding mirrors, and L7 grille (which needs new smoked chrome). I'd like to color-match the side skirts, which are stock grey plastic. (Wishing I had a GT-B rear bumper to go with the front to complete the full JDM look!) So naturally it occurs to me that maybe the right way forward is a complete bumper-to-bumper repaint.

    I asked for a referral over at LegacyGT.com, when a local member sikend667 talked about having his wagon repainted. His enthusiastic answer was Eagle Street Automotive, a long-established paint shop here in Vancouver, WA. After cleaning up the car to the best of my ability, I went on down there for an estimate yesterday. Just as I was walking into the shop, a flawless ivory white ~1958 Dodge convertible rolled up with it's top down. I'm not all that into classics but I was like :tongue1: . I met with the shop manager, who confirmed that the car was their work, and that they do a lot of prize-winning classics. He had a good look at my car and the white bumper, which I had brought along in the cargo hold. The crackled appearance on the hood and other areas was explained to me as too much hardener in the clearcoat when it was originally applied. This catalyst continues to harden over the years, and sun & heat conspire to slowly shatter the clear over time. He explained that repainting the hood, bumper, and trim pieces would run $700-$800, but that the rest of the car would look bad by comparison, and would need to be painted within a few years anyway. A rough estimate for sanding away the failing finish and painting the entire car would be ~$3000. This is a tremendous amount of money for a 15-year-old car which would sell for less than that in many markets in the country (but not in Portland, where you'd expect to pay a lot more for a nice older Subaru). However, it was not the "$5000 paint job" that I feared would be quoted to me, lol. We spent a good twenty minutes talking it over, and this was after his closing time, so I thought that was pretty cool of him. I told him I'd talk it over with my wife and let him know what we decide.

    So far that is the only estimate I've received, but I am also planning to take the car down to Dick Hannah Collision Center, which is part of the the local Subie dealership, to see if there is any wheeling-dealing-paint-should-be-recalled I could do. I seriously doubt anything would come of this (I definitely am not a regular maintenance customer), but I suppose it is worth a shot. I need to get the seatbelts replaced under warranty anyway. The car was sold brand new from a local dealership (Wentworth) in Portland, so that is another avenue to explore. We had a fender-bender with the 4Runner several years back, and another shop here in town did the work, which still looks great, so I will probably get some estimates there as well.

    The last decision I would need to make is a slight change in color: Instead of 54A-Black Granite Pearl, I might like to change to 47A-Black Mica. This is the color, I believe, of the JDM GT-B's. I have some JDM mirrors in this this original color. It's quite similar - a black with maroon metal flake - but the flake is smaller and color overall is a shade darker. I think it would be close enough that I could skip doing the door jambs, under the hood, etc. I am really a black car kind of guy, and the maroon look of Black Granite Pearl has always left me wishing it was darker. Maybe Black Mica is the way to go?

    Anybody have any input?

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    I wish you could go with obsidian black pearl, I love that color. So much blue and green flake. Can you get a photo of the 47A for comparison? I'd definitely do the full respray. My car has mismatched paint from old repairs, drives me absolutely bonkers.
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomistopheles
    I wish you could go with obsidian black pearl, I love that color. So much blue and green flake. Can you get a photo of the 47A for comparison? I'd definitely do the full respray. My car has mismatched paint from old repairs, drives me absolutely bonkers.
    I can see that happening with mismatched panels! Thanks for the feedback. Here are the JDM mirrors that I have (they too need repainting) compared against our car. The difference is hard to see, and even harder to photograph. Maybe if the JDM mirrors weren't so banged up it would work a bit better. These pics are from a year ago, so the car was not all polished up like today's pictures. Maybe if you squint you can see the difference, lol.


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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    I can see the difference, a lot less purple/maroon in the JDM mirror's paint. I'd go with that color. Robin (dead91silvia) is a body guy, maybe send him a PM.
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    If it was my car, it would be a complete... However, I would change the colr to PPG 9700 black. I'm not a fan of pearl blacks.

    But yeah, I would d a complete. $3000 is about average for a "good shop". If you know anything about prepping, you can cut that bills down, like what I'm doing with Slavik. I'm working on getting his Impreza painted and hoping by the time we are done, his car will have the equivalent of a $2000 paint job.

    You might find someone that can do it for cheaper, but that will be hit or miss. If you know someone that has had work done at what ever shop it is, thats better. If you wanted to change up the black, that can raise, or lower the price.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Thanks for the input, guys. Dead and I did PM about paint work and GT-B Limited bumpers recently My inspiration for the car is, no question, Reuben's GT-B Limited. Hope you don't mind me reposting a couple of your photos here, Reuben



    (Photo credit: Reuben)

    You can see, especially the bumper closeup, how the JDM Black Mica still shows up with the maroon flake in direct sunlight. (I am still trying to confirm that I have the exact paint name and Subaru paint code: Black Mica 47A, sometimes listed as Black Mica Pearl 47A). In some ways I really like straight BLACK better (no pearl or metal flake), but I think I will stick with a genuine USDM or JDM Subaru finish that is factory correct for the BG/BK. Either because I want to have the JDM GT-B look correct (which can never be 100% complete, as I have a BK, not a BG, which is fine by me), or because if ever there is a fender-bender down the road, I might get lucky and find a factory color-matched panel to go straight on without having to custom paint it right away.

    I did do some paint and body work on my Scirocco 16V in my garage several years back. I learned a lot, but ultimately was unhappy with my own work. I sort of had nothing to lose on that one... several years before that I was rear-ended and had the Scirocco repaired at a bodyshop here in town. The car was completely repainted and it looked good (not great) for two or three years. Then the clearcoat failed. I wanted to have the shop redo the work but *surprise!* they were out of business. So I took it upon myself to sand and repaint the whole car all over again. I fixed some rust spots, so that was good, but here it is five years later and the paint looks like crap *again*. Needs some fine-tuning on the body work to boot. Ugh. So much work, not much to show for it. I don't want to repeat these experiences - the bad "pro" bodyshop, nor the bad do-it-myself bodyshop, lol.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    I went to several body shops Friday for estimates... realizing that the "checking" or clearcoat cracking over the entire car's upper surfaces will require a full strip and repaint of the entire car, I was getting full-repaint estimates, and not really getting estimates for just the bumper and hood. I can say that the first full-repaint estimate from last week - $3000 - is the definitely the cheapest. The only way to get the cost down is for me to do some - or all - of the prep and paint myself. This is exactly what Dead91silvia said to me a couple weeks ago. Surprisingly, a couple shops encouraged this approach. The guy who gave me the highest estimate ("at least $6000") said that he'd be happy to rent his paint booth if I wanted to do things this way. His estimate for the bumper by itself was about $280.

    I also went to the two main autobody and paint suppliers in town for recommendations. They said that they can't play favorites, but I did get a few names. One of the names was $6000 guy mentioned above.

    On a lark, I also stopped at the Dick Hannah dealership collision center. Dick Hannah is the largest series of dealerships here in Vancouver, and the only Subaru dealer without crossing the bridge to Oregon. I was expecting a "Thank you, come again" shrug from them, but the estimator was really pretty cool. He was a former paint booth man of 20 years, and recognized that the car is in overall excellent condition, other than the cracked clear. His estimate was about the same as most of the other shops, ~$5000, but we talked for quite awhile about the do-it yourself approach. He said that I may want to seriously consider this. Never thought a dealership would encourage a customer to do things this way, lol. Might have to take this approach after all, at least for some of the work.

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    Super Moderator Dead91silvia's Avatar
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    They will want you to because if you dont, there is no way you will pay them to do a full paint job.

    What most people dont realize is that paint work is spendy. If you take a car t a resto shop, at least the one I would recommend, they will base price it at $20K. And it could g up from there.

    The price of $280 is not bad. For a bumper needing light repair, I charge $100 just for labor and thats pretty much just prepping it.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    They will want you to because if you dont, there is no way you will pay them to do a full paint job. What most people dont realize is that paint work is spendy. If you take a car t a resto shop, at least the one I would recommend, they will base price it at $20K. And it could g up from there.

    The price of $280 is not bad. For a bumper needing light repair, I charge $100 just for labor and thats pretty much just prepping it.
    Those are good points, Dead, thank you for your expertise Maybe I will go ahead and prep and shoot the bumper myself and see how it comes out. If I'm happy, I will do the hood myself. If I'm happy with that, maybe I'll do the rest of the car down the road a bit. One gotcha on doing the paint in sections might be color matching, though... especially if I go with the ever-so-slightly darker JDM Black Mica Pearl. However, the factory paint on my original bumpers are already slightly darker than paint on the metal panels. Maybe the bumpers were finished single-stage (no clearcoat) at the factory? Or does a flex agent change the look of the finish somewhat, compared to metal panels?

    I've been deep cleaning my garage and I've organized a fair amount of body shop supplies and tools from my last auto paint experience. Kinda getting me in the mood to "just do it" myself as much as I can.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    A lot of the cost of a full respray comes from de-trimming the car, this is kind of how you tell you are in a quality shop, they will put the clear under everything. Some shops will just mask the lights and bag the wheels, some will take a day to r+I everything including door moldings mirrors door handles antennas etc...if you don't have that kind of stuff removed you will be back in two Years when the clear starts peeling from the trim and edges where the clear wasn't uniform and completely covering areas under lights and wheel arches.
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    Super Moderator Dead91silvia's Avatar
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    This is how I took my GMC into Macco... Cost me $650 to have them spray it white... A 4x4, e-cab, long box... It was about a month of prep. I drove it to the shop like this, but I did remove the front bumper also. And this was just for my work truck/tow rig...



    And I put my tail lights back in just t drive it there and then removed them, again.


    Before


    After... Yes, I installed a new front end also... haha

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    Super Moderator Dead91silvia's Avatar
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by camroncamera
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    They will want you to because if you dont, there is no way you will pay them to do a full paint job. What most people dont realize is that paint work is spendy. If you take a car t a resto shop, at least the one I would recommend, they will base price it at $20K. And it could g up from there.

    The price of $280 is not bad. For a bumper needing light repair, I charge $100 just for labor and thats pretty much just prepping it.
    Those are good points, Dead, thank you for your expertise Maybe I will go ahead and prep and shoot the bumper myself and see how it comes out. If I'm happy, I will do the hood myself. If I'm happy with that, maybe I'll do the rest of the car down the road a bit. One gotcha on doing the paint in sections might be color matching, though... especially if I go with the ever-so-slightly darker JDM Black Mica Pearl. However, the factory paint on my original bumpers are already slightly darker than paint on the metal panels. Maybe the bumpers were finished single-stage (no clearcoat) at the factory? Or does a flex agent change the look of the finish somewhat, compared to metal panels?

    I've been deep cleaning my garage and I've organized a fair amount of body shop supplies and tools from my last auto paint experience. Kinda getting me in the mood to "just do it" myself as much as I can.
    All plastic parts are painted in a different factory, typically. Sometimes the color can be night and day and in that case, a bran new car will get a re-paint.

    Flex additive will not change the color at all. It's clear, all it does is change the consistency. As for if they are clear coated or not, they are. They never (as far as I have seen) done a car with and without clear from the factory. nly time I have seen it happen is if the car had crash damage. You will sometimes see red Toyota's driving around with half gloss and half flat paint. Thats from crash damage that was repaired years before.

    I'm going t try and get some pics to slavik of the work I'm doing to his car and that will show some of the prep work. His car is getting a color change though so it's super extencive comparing to what you are going to do...

    The way you should prep your car for paint is hard and easy at the same time. When I get home later, I can go through it a bit more. The hard part is prepping the surface for paint and knowing it's ready. Also in doing this yourself, you will have a car at home, that you cant drive for at least a week if not longer. So if you dont have an extra car to drive, it can be a problem. Also when it goes to the shop (a good one) they will take a few days to get it all done and sprayed. they may also cut and buff parts of it as needed or as per what you pay for.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by pleaidestar
    A lot of the cost of a full respray comes from de-trimming the car, this is kind of how you tell you are in a quality shop, they will put the clear under everything. Some shops will just mask the lights and bag the wheels, some will take a day to r+I everything including door moldings mirrors door handles antennas etc...if you don't have that kind of stuff removed you will be back in two Years when the clear starts peeling from the trim and edges where the clear wasn't uniform and completely covering areas under lights and wheel arches.
    This ^^

    Yeah, I definitely want paint/clear under all the lights, trim, etc. Looking for a factory-new, quality job. I will remove most everything that I can (and anything that I can't, I'll have removed for me). What about glass and the rubber seals though? Especially the windshield... Dude that runs the shop with the paint booth for rent was looking at the windshield seal at the top edge trying to see if the rubber comes out without removing the glass, and explaining that you need the rubber removed for both sanding and painting.

    Is it good practice to replace trim strips, door handles, and plastic bits with new dealer items? Do those parts get new paint, or are they a nice shiny black from the dealer already?

    I think I want to avoid repainting the door & hatch jambs and under the hood if that is considered acceptable practice. Factory paint in those areas is good, and the car has zero rust.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Yeah the jambs and under hood etc. can Be avoided under the hood is typically just basecoat, doorjambs have clear of course but they can cut the clear where the pinch on the door skin and seam sealer tape is there. The clips and fasteners that break can be replaced in shop...that is where some of the hidden cost is as well. Companies like au-ve-co have duplicates of some of the uni- fasteners the manufacturers use.

    There is a heavy plastic tape that can be put under the weather seals on the windows, its pretty cool how that stuff works, have to slide it between the water channel and window then tape it back so the paint and clear have a soft landing. When the tape is removed it will lay back down on top of the clear coat depending on the strip being flexible still.
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Micro-cracking like that indicates the temperature inside the paint booth was too cold for the topcoat, or it was sprayed and not cured in the booth long enough.
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by pleaidestar
    There is a heavy plastic tape that can be put under the weather seals on the windows, its pretty cool how that stuff works, have to slide it between the water channel and window then tape it back so the paint and clear have a soft landing. When the tape is removed it will lay back down on top of the clear coat depending on the strip being flexible still.
    WIN^^

    I figured there must be some sort of technique or product like this.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    All plastic parts are painted in a different factory, typically. Sometimes the color can be night and day and in that case, a bran new car will get a re-paint.

    Flex additive will not change the color at all. It's clear, all it does is change the consistency. As for if they are clear coated or not, they are. They never (as far as I have seen) done a car with and without clear from the factory. nly time I have seen it happen is if the car had crash damage. You will sometimes see red Toyota's driving around with half gloss and half flat paint. Thats from crash damage that was repaired years before.
    This is very insightful info, thank you!

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Literally the night I shot my Silvia...









    Last coat of clear...


    Kinda put back together. I did get all the parts painted, but it was the only car I had driving at the time.




    Some of my parts I did in a different shoot.


    You dont replace the parts if they are in good shape. And even if you do, Subaru sells there parts in raw plastic. Much more time consuming and materials to paint.

    I'll see if I can dig up more of my paint prep pics...

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Forgot I had these pics...

    This is an 85 Toyota we restored back in like 2008.... Same deal. Pulled all the trim and what ever else needed to be to get the best paint we could. Even the glass was pulled since most was roped in, other then the windshield.



    What she ended up looking like.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    Forgot I had these pics...

    This is an 85 Toyota we restored back in like 2008.... Same deal. Pulled all the trim and what ever else needed to be to get the best paint we could. Even the glass was pulled since most was roped in, other then the windshield.
    Thanks for the pics... what is meant by glass that is "roped in"? Sounds like, that is where the rubber seals cover the edge of the frames and require pulling the glass in order to get the seals out of the way?

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Robin, was it you that eventually regretted the two-tone paintjob?
    2002 Outback H6 VDC "Blitzen 6"

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    A sherpa could rip ass somewhere high up in the Himalayas and my Prius will be blown almost off of the road.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by camroncamera
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    Forgot I had these pics...

    This is an 85 Toyota we restored back in like 2008.... Same deal. Pulled all the trim and what ever else needed to be to get the best paint we could. Even the glass was pulled since most was roped in, other then the windshield.
    Thanks for the pics... what is meant by glass that is "roped in"? Sounds like, that is where the rubber seals cover the edge of the frames and require pulling the glass in order to get the seals out of the way?
    Yeah, basically. None of the Legacy glass you need to pull, just the trim and seals. Legacy's are not that bad to prep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muse
    Robin, was it you that eventually regretted the two-tone paintjob?
    Yes, after about a month I didnt like the black any more on my Silvia. Mainly it was the dust from my driveway. I was thinking of re-painting it all red and it wouldn't have been that hard, but I crashed it before that happened.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    Quote Originally Posted by camroncamera
    Thanks for the pics... what is meant by glass that is "roped in"? Sounds like, that is where the rubber seals cover the edge of the frames and require pulling the glass in order to get the seals out of the way?
    Yeah, basically. None of the Legacy glass you need to pull, just the trim and seals. Legacy's are not that bad to prep.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Still mulling on this, but in the meantime I repainted our house lol.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    haha... practice makes perfect!

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    haha... practice makes perfect!
    Used a sprayer and it looks awesome!

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    BUMP

    Finally picked up some prep supplies from the auto body supply store. No paint yet, but I will spend some time in the next couple weeks prepping the Limited bumper and some trim bits for shooting. There are some light scuff and gouges in the plastic that need to be filled, blended, and primed.

    I will have to come up with some sort of paint booth. I have an oversized 1-car detached garage. The last time I sprayed in there I ended up with overspray on everything, but I didn't "booth-in" my project with plastic sheeting or anything.

    As far as finishes, should I go with mid-range (USC) or top-range (Glasurit) color and clear? The guy at the shop seemed to think I should go with a mid-range product. The top-range seemed quite expensive, but he said that is what the good shops in town use.

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    Super Moderator Dead91silvia's Avatar
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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    What brands are those?

    This is what I use..

    PPG DP Sealer. Keeps things from lifting and other crap.
    PPG DBC base coat... Covers good
    Omni High Solids clear. Seems to work pretty good for the price.

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    What brands are those?

    This is what I use..

    PPG DP Sealer. Keeps things from lifting and other crap.
    PPG DBC base coat... Covers good
    Omni High Solids clear. Seems to work pretty good for the price.
    Thanks for the input, I don't know anything about USC (http://www.uschem.com/), and Glasurit I think is by BASF (Glasurit)

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    Re: Partial or complete repaint of Wagon and GT-B Limited bu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead91silvia
    What brands are those?

    This is what I use..

    PPG DP Sealer. Keeps things from lifting and other crap.
    This "sealer" is another term for primer, right? Is this epoxy sealer primer the product you are talking about?
    http://www.ppg.com/en/newsroom/news/Pag ... 0828A.aspx

    Quote Originally Posted by PPG.com
    The DPLV 2.1 Epoxy Primer line provides excellent adhesion and corrosion resistance for substrates such as properly prepared steel, aluminum, fiber glass, rigid plastics and plastic fillers. The DPLV Epoxy Primer also can be used as a sealer and topcoated with many of PPG's two-component urethane undercoats and topcoats. It is compatible with waterborne basecoats as well.

    DPLV 2.1 Epoxy Primer is available in three colors: White DP48LV, Gray DP50LV and Black DP90LV. These can be blended to achieve a broad range of gray shades.
    If I'm going to be painting a basecoat of "Black Mica" 47A, would I be better off with a Gray sealer or Black sealer? Seems like Gray would make it easier to see my coverage as the base goes on.

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