Crank no spark issue - Help!

[jmills62]

2001 Legacy wagon MT: motor in 5k ago, cranks but will not start - with cam sensor plugged in


Okay, I'm at about wits end with this girl about to give in and to take it to the dealer...

So, Thanksgiving night I was driving in the hills to my friend's house when all of a sudden my car dies and will not start(half a tank of gas, no overheating). Cranks and cranks, but nothing.. leave it and come back to check it another day after scouring the forums to see what to check.

Fuses, Cam, Crank, Knock sensor, timing? I went thru and actually get it to start with the cam sensor unplugged!?! idles like crap, sputters when trying to give it gas. Order a sensor, put it in..same thing, crank no start. Drive it down the hill as is to Autozone(3mi). Check the battery, is ok. would not start again with cam unplugged. . FB group mentioned TPS, I check that(my EJ253 doesn't have adjustable TPS) no dice.

Tow it to Pep boys to have it looked at, they tell me not enough power to the ECU and throwing codes for Cam, Crank, and Throttle Position Sensors(the 3 sensors I was messing with to try to get it to start and don't think I reset the memory then). I need a new ECU first they say, and they tell me they've already have had 5 bad ECUs this month, when I ask how often that happens(really? I'm doubting the ECU)

I mention to them if the guy reset the ECU and tried to duplicate the errors, said they could try that, call me a few days later asking when I'll pick up the car(so, they never tried it). I bring in a used ECU and change it out myself in the parking lot, same issue. Cranks but will not start with cam sensor plugged in. I unplug it, starts right up. (WTF!!??)

I switch old ECU back in.. check timing on driver's side cam( which someone from a shop 30mi from me had mentioned it sounds like), and looks to be on time - Checking Top dead center with piston 1 all the way up.. Drive it home where it's been parked..

So, I'm lost what else could it be?? I've driven this for ~5K miles since I put this other engine in... and it dies out of nowhere. I don't drive this hard at all. Trying to think I might have given it a little extra gas while driving up hill(in the hills that night) but timing looks to be fine..

***
I checked spark plugs
Battery good
Unplugged the alternator- no change
all fuses look good
fuel pump primes
coil is def getting spark (I shocked the **** out of myself)
not positive of spark when cam plugged in
*while resetting ecu I could get it to pop before a full crank trying to start, but dies immediately (with cam sensor plugged in)
there is pressure (haven't tested with guage- do not have that tool)
Replaced the cam sensor(cheap eBay sensor, junk yard OEM, autozone ac Delco version) and get the same result
Looked around at all wires look to be ok- nothing disconnected(besides cam sensor).
swapped ECU- no change (could this ECU be bad too?)
I've a Mini ELM327(off eBay) and tells me it cannot connect with ECU.(should I try the other ECU again?)


Is there anything else I'm missing?? Or do I just take it to the dealer, and give them my wallet?

[Matty2Hotty]

I would check all your wiring and grounds... Could be corroded connector pins or wires.

[nepbug]

Ok, 01 legacy 5mt is an EJ252. What motor did you swap in there? Full motor (short block, intake manifold, heads) or some other mix?

Was the motor you swapped in an auto? If so, you need a different ECU and you need to add the timing belt guide or you can skip a tooth on timing. On 5mt cars if you put the car in gear when you park and it applies pressure to that gear by rolling a little forward or back, your timing belt goes slack and you can jump a tooth; the timing belt guide prevents this.

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[jmills62]

Matty - I'm just lost how it went out of nowhere while driving..if that could be the case.

Well,I suppose corrosion over time..Lol

Nepbug- I've just used the block from an AT ej251 -00 Legacy GT, swapped the gears to fit my heads, and intake. driven on it ~5k miles no issues until this..

[nepbug]

Matty - I'm just lost how it went out of nowhere while driving..if that could be the case.

Well,I suppose corrosion over time..Lol

Nepbug- I've just used the block from an AT ej251 -00 Legacy GT, swapped the gears to fit my heads, and intake. driven on it ~5k miles no issues until this..

I would suspect that your timing belt jumped a tooth then. When using an auto short block in a 5mt car you need to install the timing belt guide to prevent the belt from jumping a tooth.



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[Matty2Hotty]

Yeah I bet same thing jumped a tooth if you used AT block on MT without the tensioner, critical piece. Go back and tear the front half of the motor off.

[jmills62]

Yea, my mechanic didn't put a guide in.. said they don't come with them..

I'm just confused.. would it still start right up, then immediately cut off if the timing is off? It does that with cam sensor plugged in, and I can't connect to the ECU if sensor is plugged in or not.

I put piston 1 at TDC from what I could tell and driver's cam looked to match

All wires look ok, could I have a loose wire I missed keeping the ecu from connecting?? That part is bothering me, too.

[nepbug]

Yeah, I think when you start it with the cam sensor plugged in shortly after starting it is sensing that it is out of time and shuts it down. The two sensors are disagreeing on the timing so it freaks out.

Your mechanic is right that they don't come with the timing guide...on the automatic blocks, but every 5mt block does have the timing belt guide. So if an auto block is put into a 5mt then you need to add the guide to it, or never ever park it with it in gear.

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[jmills62]

Hey guys, Good news and bad news..

It has a new timing guide in now and didn't jump a tooth. The bad news is, I still have the same problem.

his obd could read mine and got cam and MAP sensor codes (I was messing with the MAP earlier)

So, I towed it to have my mechanic help me take care of it, then ended up driving home now knowing no valves bent and timing is good. Still starting only with cam sensor unplugged. And it sputters when I give it gas and reacts worse when I give it more gas before the rpms are up(at least over 2.5k) When I first start it, smells really rich for a bit, water comes out the tailpipe...

Anyone have any idea where else to look electrically? I'm reading the MAP sensor or TPS could be bad, but not really sure if that could be the culprit.

I'm still on the same tank of gas(almost empty) and wondering if it could be bad gas? maybe clogged an injector? But why would it be throwing codes?

It's sitting with the battery unplugged over night for now. This is so frustrating....