How do I drive my legacy?

[dereku]

Hello,

I have been looking, but can not seem to find exactly what I am looking for. What I am looking for, is a "how to" of sorts, on how to drive my legacy.

Little background. I am new to AWD, but not new to racing. I have done AutoX in the past, but find myself on a road course as I think it is a lot more fun. But what I want to know doesn't have anything to do with that.

I drive a fairly high HP FWD car, and know how to handle that, but the AWD in my 97 Legacy GT is something I am not used to. I bought it for a winter car, but am having a lot of fun with it now that my SRT is away.

I find this car tends to understeer more than oversteer, and I can't really get the ass end to kick out, unless I use the handbrake. But I can not seem to figure out how to get the classic "drift" sort of manuvere. Is it because the car is underpowered to be doing this is anything other than snow? The snow hasn't fallen here yet but it is not far off.

Any tips, or tricks, or even small mods I can do, to help me get the most out of my AWD, would be greatly appreciated.

[rougeben83]

Hello,

I have been looking, but can not seem to find exactly what I am looking for. What I am looking for, is a "how to" of sorts, on how to drive my legacy.

Little background. I am new to AWD, but not new to racing. I have done AutoX in the past, but find myself on a road course as I think it is a lot more fun. But what I want to know doesn't have anything to do with that.

I drive a fairly high HP FWD car, and know how to handle that, but the AWD in my 97 Legacy GT is something I am not used to. I bought it for a winter car, but am having a lot of fun with it now that my SRT is away.

I find this car tends to understeer more than oversteer, and I can't really get the ass end to kick out, unless I use the handbrake. But I can not seem to figure out how to get the classic "drift" sort of manuvere. Is it because the car is underpowered to be doing this is anything other than snow? The snow hasn't fallen here yet but it is not far off.

Any tips, or tricks, or even small mods I can do, to help me get the most out of my AWD, would be greatly appreciated.

loose surface is pretty much a given, especially on a non turbo car. AWD cars will understeer on turn-in, just like a fwd car, you need to get on the throttle before the apex to get the tail to start oversteering. Turn a little sharper on entry, then mash the gas before the apex and the back will eventually start to slide out...do it right and you'll have all 4 wheels spinning as you powerslide out of the corner :smile:

[peugoby]

Ben just pretty much nailed it. If you have an automatic, downshifting into 3rd or 2nd will send more of the power to the rear wheels. I think drive is something like 90-10 power ratio under normal load.

Unless you're on snow, wet pavement or broken ground your Legacy will have fwd tendencies and usually understeer. A great remedy to help with added turn in would be a rear sway bar. AWD only helps when you're on the gas pedal, something many people seem to forget around Oregon.

[Airgne]

both correct. you can also instead of mashing the gas before the apex is flick the ass and clutch kick.

[hallowpoint]

^^exactly what they said. but yes are cars are underpowered but there more fun when the snow hits. upgrade your rsb

[dereku]

Should have mentioned it is a 5 speed. Thanks guys, keep the tips coming.

Yes I was trying this on gravel. I wouldn't even dream this car could do this on dry pavement. I also just read that countersteering less while the car is slideing is something to try, since the front wheels will start to pull the car in the direction they are pointed.

Would disabling the ABS help? What is the power distribution in these cars?

[Airgne]

abs is good but not a must. if i car came with it keep it. the tq split is 50/50 for the 5mt or 49/51 some ppl say differently.

most he time ill go on a gravel road straight in first gear. crank the wheel and gas. ill let the steering wheel do what it want to straighten the car if need be. other than that i just scandinavian flick it down a straight. without using the ebrake.

[aurelius]

22mm rsb should give you sexy time with it.

[LunchBox04V]

Like they have all said. Bigger rear sway was a big help. I also like just a few extra psi in the rear tires. I usually run about 4psi more in the rear.

[jey]

First thing, applies to all cars - get all your braking done before you turn - your road course instructor probably told you this too. Do not enter the turn to hot. If you do you are going to plow plow plow understeer and more throttle will not take you out of that.

Once you get into your turn at the proper speed this is where AWD shines. In a 2WD car you often have to wait until you're coming out of the turn before applying the throttle again because the tires are busy scraping for cornering traction. With AWD you can start nailing the gas mid turn, because the there is more available traction between 4 wheels vs. 2 for forward propulsion.

On a loose surface like gravel you do not need a lot of power to get sideways and have fun. I could do sideways turns all day long in my Legacy when it had 130 hp.

[httrdd]

Great thread! I came out of driving rear wheel drive cars for the longest time and wondered how to get the ass out on AWD! Easy to do in dirt, but I occasionally hit the backroad pavement coners hard. Good info guys, for now I will have to learn on an underpowered car. :lol:

[chuckthefuk]

I am no expert but have you ever tried "Weight Transfer"? Its perfect for AWD cars.

If your going into a turn (LEFT) you must turn the wheel opposite to the direction you are going then snap back to direction of the turn.

Example.

0) Turn = LEFT
1) Wheel = Far Right
2) Wheel = Far Left.
3) Back end will shift to the right instead of the left.
4) Power out of the turn causing the rear tires to spin causing a slide/drift

Car will shift to the right then to left causing the rear end to kick out a bit. I have yet to see a true AWD car complete a RWD drift but hey if you got the power and the skills go for it.

[Huffer]

^^ I believe that's called a "scandanavian flick".

[chuckthefuk]

ooooooo a fancy name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick

-Chuck

[dereku]

great tips guys. i just have to get out and practice now.

[httrdd]

Have a friend hold a camera and make a vid! Just make sure he/she stays back while you practice. :smt002

[dereku]

Lol, we've done that in FWD cars. I can handle the slides no problem, I just want to try and work on making them longer instead of a big e brake slide.

I'll see what I can come up with for vids.

[Sarra]

Powersliding/drifting can be a challenge. I can't even get my WRX to really play unless it's on snow tires and in the rain. :p

Just be aware that pulling the parking brake a ton while moving will make your center diff cry viscous tears, and you will eventually need a new viscous coupler.

Best way to do slides is to get some really crappy, hard tires on the car (think: 135 60TR13) and play with the power.

[dereku]

Well I found doing the scandanavian flick was just as useful as useing the handbrake, so I don't think I will be useing it anymore.

Is it still hard on the viscous coupler when I put my foot on the clutch before I pull the handbrake?

[jey]

VC is still working because you're still introducing a potentially large difference between the rotational speeds of the two shafts (front is moving, back is stationary due to e-brake action) and the way the VC works is that differences in rotational speeds heats up the fluid, and the fluid becomes "gooey" and tries to bring the rotational speeds back to equal.

This happens regardless of whether there is power on the input shaft I think so depressing the clutch doesn't eliminate this.

I still have not heard a convincing argument one way or another as to whether e-brake turns put the VC under more stress than the usual work it does, but it is working still.

[dereku]

Still a good thing to point out.

On the upside though the other day when I was practicing in the parking lot my car club does the Rally X in, I heard a terrible grinding noise that went away when I put my foot on the clutch. I thought "F&*K I already screwed this clutch up" turns out I had a big rock stuck in my heatshield that was rubbing on my driveshaft!

[Dead91silvia]

Should have mentioned it is a 5 speed. Thanks guys, keep the tips coming.

Yes I was trying this on gravel. I wouldn't even dream this car could do this on dry pavement. I also just read that countersteering less while the car is slideing is something to try, since the front wheels will start to pull the car in the direction they are pointed.

Would disabling the ABS help? What is the power distribution in these cars?

I think I hate you... I want a 5 speed in mine!

I came from driving a boosted Silvia to my GT. It does drive odd compared to how my Nissan did. I remember taking a corner I knew I could take at 90+ with the Silvia and tried it with the Subie at about 70+ and it got sideways on dry pavement, almost craped myself... haha

As for getting it sideways, I have got my auto sideways a few times on wet pavement. The 5 speed should not be too hard to do. I drove a 5 speed GT and I clutch kicked that thing every where and it would swing nice and easy, if it was wet that is.

As for the ABS, I pulled out the fuse over a year ago and never put it back in. I can brake better then the car can. You will want to take it out for the snow and ice when it comes. You can feel the car so much better I think...

[dereku]

Is a 5 speed somewhat rare in these cars?

I think I will take out the fuse for the ABS and just try it. In my SRT I would never try to dissable to ABS because it works so damn good, but it does feel a little odd in the Subaru.

[rougeben83]

also, stabbing the brake pedal with your left foot on right before you turn in and/or right before you clip the apex to force weight transfer off the rear wheels will have the same effect as the flick. Ie left foot braking :smt005

[rudgers73]

Hello,

I have been looking, but can not seem to find exactly what I am looking for. What I am looking for, is a "how to" of sorts, on how to drive my legacy.

Little background. I am new to AWD, but not new to racing. I have done AutoX in the past, but find myself on a road course as I think it is a lot more fun. But what I want to know doesn't have anything to do with that.

I drive a fairly high HP FWD car, and know how to handle that, but the AWD in my 97 Legacy GT is something I am not used to. I bought it for a winter car, but am having a lot of fun with it now that my SRT is away.

I find this car tends to understeer more than oversteer, and I can't really get the ass end to kick out, unless I use the handbrake. But I can not seem to figure out how to get the classic "drift" sort of manuvere. Is it because the car is underpowered to be doing this is anything other than snow? The snow hasn't fallen here yet but it is not far off.

Any tips, or tricks, or even small mods I can do, to help me get the most out of my AWD, would be greatly appreciated.

Learn the Scandinavian flick... jk

Oversteer, then mash the gas as you bring it around. On dry roads you need to put more air in the front tires and be aggressive into the corner. The back tires will roll on their shoulder a bit, then start to come around. If you over-inflate the rears you will get snap-oversteer and without like 300 HP it will be impossible to correct with the gas petal. Put a bigger sway on the rear and play with tire pressure to get a good feel for that balance you are looking for. It takes some time to get used to it, but once you do, you will really appreciate how square it slides sideways in the winter. You get into a drift, then it's all in the gas petal to bring it around smoothly.

PS I can't wait til it snows this year... :twisted:

[slaytalera]

Should have mentioned it is a 5 speed. Thanks guys, keep the tips coming.

Yes I was trying this on gravel. I wouldn't even dream this car could do this on dry pavement. I also just read that countersteering less while the car is slideing is something to try, since the front wheels will start to pull the car in the direction they are pointed.

Would disabling the ABS help? What is the power distribution in these cars?

I think I hate you... I want a 5 speed in mine!

I came from driving a boosted Silvia to my GT. It does drive odd compared to how my Nissan did. I remember taking a corner I knew I could take at 90+ with the Silvia and tried it with the Subie at about 70+ and it got sideways on dry pavement, almost craped myself... haha

As for getting it sideways, I have got my auto sideways a few times on wet pavement. The 5 speed should not be too hard to do. I drove a 5 speed GT and I clutch kicked that thing every where and it would swing nice and easy, if it was wet that is.

As for the ABS, I pulled out the fuse over a year ago and never put it back in. I can brake better then the car can. You will want to take it out for the snow and ice when it comes. You can feel the car so much better I think...

+1 on pulling the ABS fuse...i learned to drive with no ABS, and ive never needed it, i know the limits of the tires im on, and the car

[ouch1011]

Just upgrading to an OB rsb was helpful. Still understeers if you come into a corner too hot, but bascially anywhere in 1st or 2nd gear if you are on the throttle and cornering hard it will try to oversteer. I'm not big into drifting so I usually try to keep it in line, but it would oversteer if I asked it to. Usually just tossing the car in, not even flicking it, works just fine.

[rougeben83]

front swaybar will also help...it seems counterintuitive but by preventing the front wheels from moving too much you are keeping the macpherson suspension from going into positive camber while the suspension loads up, increasing front grip. My car rotated pretty noticeably during autox with a bigger swaybar