Head Gasket Question

[MINORMidget]

Not sure if anyone knows anything about this...

So i was sitting in my buddies engineering class talking about cars and which ones they thought were the best over all. Iv been looking into getting an STI but i wasnt sure about the reliability. One of the guys in the group told me that the boxter engine is inherently flaud in the engineering of the head gasket and that it gets hot and warps at high RPM. He also said that the engines dont last much past 150k because of this problem and would need new head gaskets come 200k and every 20-50k after that.

I was wonderting if anyone knew if this was true for all boxer engines or just forced induction, or if all forced and nauturally aspirated engines have this problem?

[Sarra]

Oh. My. God.

Seriously, automotive engineers need to be forced to work as mechanics for 2-5 years. Hell, EVERY engineer needs to be forced to work as a 'service-person' in the field they 'engineer'.

There are a ton of WRX and STi engines going on around 200k that have no problems with the gaskets. Valves are another issue all-together.

Also, "Boxter" is Porsche. Our engines are "Boxers". And it's "Flawed", not... "Flaud", that's not even a word.

[MINORMidget]

haha yea ignore my speling errors.
The guy i was talkin to has been a mechanic for the past 3 years and has worked on many cars, he says. i do not know him very well but that is just what he says. But the main reason that he said the engines are blowing is because the pistons do not cool fast enough when at high RPMs. Isnt this true with all cars?

[Sarra]

It's not an issue with any modern car. If it is/was, then they used oil squirters. Or the damn thing was recalled.

There are 2.2 NA motors that last past 300k on the original headgaskets. Hell, I've seen some of those go 200k on a single factory clutch. When they are maintained right and not driven by a moron, and they aren't chevys that use that Orange coolant shit (or blue), they can last forever. That orange coolant stuff is horrible, same with the blue (Dexcool). There's an engineering disaster. "It cools better", yeah, it does, until you get a LITTLE air in the system, then you have gel for coolant.

[New Subaru Fan]

It's a really interesting topic. And an interesting question too: do HGs fail because of the inherent defect of the engine or do people just push their subis too hard? I've just replaced HGs in my Legacy Turbo 1990 after 190 000 km and I don't want to do that job again. It's just tremendous and very nerves consuming. Therefore I would really like to prevent the HGs failure.
I also talked to one engineer yesterday and he said that the torque of those 6 bolts attaching the head to the block is crucial. If they are under-torqued than a leakeage through the HGs will develop. He also said that if you tighten the head bolts the HGs might stop to leak.
He also mentioned that in order to get the right torque the bolts thread have to be covered with some coper stuff.
What do you think of that?

[mike-tracy]

It's a really interesting topic. And an interesting question too: do HGs fail because of the inherent defect of the engine or do people just push their subis too hard?
I think it's both. On USDM subarus with the 2.5D motor 97+, Subaru went with a multi layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film, not saying that MLS is inherently bad, but ALL 97+ 25D motors blew their HG's sometime after 100k miles (My Forester blew at 140k and my 25D Legacy motor blew at 180k. My 2.2 Legacy blew at 165k but that motor is much less common to ever let go). My 1991 Toyota 4Runner blew it's HG's at 180k miles, even though the HG's were replaced by the factory under recall in 1996. Subarus don't usually blow their head gaskets again, unless the proper torquing procedure was not followed.





I've just replaced HGs in my Legacy Turbo 1990 after 190 000 km and I don't want to do that job again. It's just tremendous and very nerves consuming. Therefore I would really like to prevent the HGs failure.

The motor you have, EJ20G I believe, is a very sturdy motor which rarely blows the HG's. Most likely yours was abused for part of it's life. Think about it like this: if it lasted 190k on factory head gaskets, will you still be driving it when the 2nd 190k comes around? The US version of your motor, the EJ22T, is also a very sturdy motor that rarely has problems with HG's. Back when those cars were conceived, Subaru's design target was to build an engine that requires no major service (HG's for example) for 100k miles/160k km. I'd say yours held up pretty well.

As to the copper based product on the head bolts, I don't know anything about that, but it is standard procedure to lubricate the bolts so they don't seize up and break off when removing.

[New Subaru Fan]

[quote="New Subaru Fan":1jk9dpht]It's a really interesting topic. And an interesting question too: do HGs fail because of the inherent defect of the engine or do people just push their subis too hard?
I think it's both. On USDM subarus with the 2.5D motor 97+, Subaru went with a multi layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film, not saying that MLS is inherently bad, but ALL 97+ 25D motors blew their HG's sometime after 100k miles (My Forester blew at 140k and my 25D Legacy motor blew at 180k. My 2.2 Legacy blew at 165k but that motor is much less common to ever let go). My 1991 Toyota 4Runner blew it's HG's at 180k miles, even though the HG's were replaced by the factory under recall in 1996. Subarus don't usually blow their head gaskets again, unless the proper torquing procedure was not followed.





I've just replaced HGs in my Legacy Turbo 1990 after 190 000 km and I don't want to do that job again. It's just tremendous and very nerves consuming. Therefore I would really like to prevent the HGs failure.

The motor you have, EJ20G I believe, is a very sturdy motor which rarely blows the HG's. Most likely yours was abused for part of it's life. Think about it like this: if it lasted 190k on factory head gaskets, will you still be driving it when the 2nd 190k comes around? The US version of your motor, the EJ22T, is also a very sturdy motor that rarely has problems with HG's. Back when those cars were conceived, Subaru's design target was to build an engine that requires no major service (HG's for example) for 100k miles/160k km. I'd say yours held up pretty well.

As to the copper based product on the head bolts, I don't know anything about that, but it is standard procedure to lubricate the bolts so they don't seize up and break off when removing.[/quote:1jk9dpht]

Thanks a lot for your opinion. It's good to hear such things about my EJ20G.
I also heard that copper stuff eases the removing of bolts but I've never heard it's used for proper torquing procedures. I need to talk to that guy again.

But what do you think about re-tightening the head bolts to stop the leakage through HGs?
And how about steel HGs? My friend put them in his engine although his factory ones were MLS.