Startup issues?

[Lone_legacy]

So, For the past few months I have been having some minor issues that I haven't done much about mainly because they are minor, but I'd like to hear what people think might be going on.

Cleaned the EGR today
Before:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/DSCN1451-1.jpg
After:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/01/DSCN1452-1.jpg

Here goes: About half the time only when my engine is warm I experience strained startups. when the engine turns over I experience what I think to be a missfire for a second or two (fuel smell, engine rock), then everything smooths out. Also, this may or may not be related to the startup issue, but when I come to a stop and put the car in neutral the RPM pauses at 1100 for a few seconds before dropping down to resting idle.

So far, besides the EGR, I have cleaned the IACV and MAF(every 5k). I've run slick50 fuel system cleaner and fuel injector cleaner. My plugs are fresh, the cables I am not sure. I checked the coil conections everyting is clean (no rust). Also, new battery and alternator only a few months ago.

Not really sure what else to do. Anyone have any ideas?

[Huffer]

Try cleaning your Throttle Position Sensor, and clean up your electrical grounds too. It's fairly common for an older Legacy to hesitate dropping RPMs down below 1000 right as you're moving into neutral.

I assume this is an automatic?

[Lone_legacy]

I assume this is an automatic?

nope, Its a manual. I'll try that though. thanks.

[Lone_legacy]

Throttle position sensor is all good. Grounds are fine. Any other ideas? Any chance my startup issue may be a fuel delivery problem or the starter going?

[Huffer]

Try cleaning your throttle plate and upper intake manifold.

[immortal1kon]

my car has a similar problem but it's common on start up the car revs at 2k to warm up then goes to 1100 /1000 and then after driving for 5 min if i come to a stop my idle will be around 750-800 but once in a while the idle drops for a second but thats about it. some can argue but i noticed alot of it go away when i changed the pipe in between the torque box and the intake box form stock to 3" now i can drive at around 1700 without any roughness in most gears.

as for your start up problem. check your fuel pump and fuel filter. very common once they get old they dont work as fast and it takes a second to kick in. next time you start your car first turn the key on and listen for the fuel wait 5 sec and start the car and see if the hesitation is still strong.

[immortal1kon]

Also most startup issuses come from a weak starter motor, overtime it looses strength and cannot move the flywheel right away there is a rubber cover on your tranny housing which if you remove it will expose the flywheel teeth. it is a good idea to spray it with air and to generally clean the teeth.

Other Causes!
-weak battery
-old alternator
-too many things on while start-up ( headlights,a/c,fans,dome lights,ac 12volt outlet plugged in)
-check your drive belts (cracks, signs of age can cause a hesitated start)
-check the hose going to your pcv for blow back

a good list of things to check and knock out before worrying about all the other indirect issuses like egr and stuff which is a seperate system which just works in conjunction with the engine. the car would run just fine without an egr system though it's good it is now clean
hope some of what i said helps .

[ouch1011]

Your starting problem almost sounds like vapor lock, although that isn't very common on injected engines unless there is a heat source right near the injector (like on 4L Jeeps for instance). But if your fuel pressure is dropping off after turning off the engine when hot, you could still have fuel vaporizing in the injectors as it sits.

Other possibilities could be worn tune parts, possibly a leaky injector.

[Lone_legacy]

Hi, sorry for not updating about this issue for a while. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I gave my grounds and throttle position sensor a thorough cleaning. Also, I installed the paranoid grounding kit and my idle hesitation has gone away. Thanks for your help on that one Huffer.

As for the startup issue, I haven't experienced it since my initial post, but I am sure it will come up sometime soon. When I have some money I am going to replace my fuel filter and fuel pump. The filter I have has at least 40k on it.

[Lone_legacy]

Just thought of something that may be relevant. For the past few months when my car is running I notice a faint humming noise coming from underneath the driver side rear seat where the fuel pump sits. Is this cause for concern?

[Lone_legacy]

^^No opinions on the fuel pump?

[anothernord]

^^No opinions on the fuel pump?

The whining noise is perfectly normal.

[Lone_legacy]

^^No opinions on the fuel pump?

The whining noise is perfectly normal.

ok thanks.

[goodnight1985]

If you are still having issues with idling, start up and fouled up egr valves, try cleaning the rest of the EGR system. The metal line that runs from the EGR valve to the head can get clogged as well as the port for the line. Check your vacuum lines and all the ports that connect them to whatever component they attach to. I also wouldn't put any of that cleaner crap you have running thru the fuel system. Just use a good, name brand fuel and you should be OK. Those "cleaners" can sometimes do more harm than good. If your car needs those cleaners, it is usually a good indication of a larger problem - dirty, cheap fuel, bad fuel lines, bad tank etc

[Lone_legacy]

If you are still having issues with idling, start up and fouled up egr valves, try cleaning the rest of the EGR system. The metal line that runs from the EGR valve to the head can get clogged as well as the port for the line. Check your vacuum lines and all the ports that connect them to whatever component they attach to. I also wouldn't put any of that cleaner crap you have running thru the fuel system. Just use a good, name brand fuel and you should be OK. Those "cleaners" can sometimes do more harm than good. If your car needs those cleaners, it is usually a good indication of a larger problem - dirty, cheap fuel, bad fuel lines, bad tank etc

The issue hasn't come up for a month or so now. I suspect cleaning the grounds made a big difference. As for the EGR system, I cleaned the EGR lines as well as the majority of the vaccuum lines. They were already in pretty good shape for the most part. Fuel wise I use only shell 87. What I would like to do is clean up the interior of my throttle body and intake manifold. If the condition of the egr valve was any sign of the carbon build up in the intake tract, then that is long overdue. I appreciate your suggestions, thanks.

[Black Sunshine]

The grounds are very important for our OBDII systems. I hit a deer and had the front end replaced and they didn't sand the frame before reinstalling the main ground strap. It started throwing codes like crazy.

I've been having a problem similar to this from my BK. It has 197K miles. At the time of the grounding problems it replace the idle motor with on from the pick a part. I think it's always exciting to use older parts than your own, so if memory serves me correctly this one is close to 300K. It didn't make a difference so I left it on there. I still have mine. The problem hasn't thrown a code so I figure it's not very severe. Mine will start rock a time or two and stop. I suspect it's this idle motor thing because it controls the idle and the ability to idle.

My problem could be a number of things because I haven't checked or cleaned any of the things that you have mentioned. Although, you never mentioned the theory that I have so it may be the answer.

I have recently started getting p0400 codes. This happened right after I replaced the valve cover gaskets and I knocked one of the vac lines loose. Maybe a coincidence but I replaced the EGR vac lines. I'm thinking about actually cleaning the rest of it up. If I need parts I will probably get them from the pick a part on half price day. That's how I scored an axle and spindle for $35 and a prop shaft for $45.

[Lone_legacy]

So, my startup issue is back now that it has warmed up outside. Car still runs strong, its only at startup. I am thinking Ouch1011 was onto something with the fuel injectors. I am going to do everything I can, shy of replacing them. First step, seafoam in the fuel. I am thinking of having them cleaned. Do you guys think this would be effective or just a waste of money?

[bangedlegacywagon97]

I have had good results with chevron techron fuel additive