poor mans larger brakes

[greenspeed]

I was talking to girodisc a while back and ordered some brake parts (that ironically I was never charged for and they never were shipped) so that ended up being a good thing because I have decided on trying to go with his suggestion.

If I run caliper cages off a 04-05 wrx I can use my front calipers with 04-05 rotors which are a bit larger. Has anyone done this before? Also do you know a pt number for the caliper brackets I was on subarugenuineparts.com and couldn't find the brackets listed there at all.

im running 2004 wrx front setup.. you need caliper brackets,

Front WRX Brake Disc (You Need 2): 26310AC040
Caliper Support Bracket (You Need 2): 26225AE000

[jamal]

no, pre-03 brackets will not work with an 03+ caliper.

[Sarra]

With my 1998 LGT, I put 2002 WRX front brake brackets and 2002 WRX front rotors on.

Then when I traded my LGT in for a 2002 WRX, I still had the LGT front brackets and discs, enabling me to keep running my 15" winter wheels/tires in the winter, albeit with 1998 LGT front brakes.

When I had my 1998 LGT, I got front caliper brackets for a 2002 WRX off a local guy who parted out wrecked cars. If you don't find NASIOC detestable in the extreme, you can post in your local club subforum there to see if someone local to you does so. FastWRX also sells kits, IIRC, but they're more expensive, as well as boxer4racing. Good luck.

[hallowpoint]

4pots from a 300zx can apparently work on subaru brakes. anyone have info on this? my buddy said he saw it done and he has some laying around.

[greenspeed]

Well I went and ordered 02 wrx hawk pads and stop tech rotors, well see if it'll work I abandoned the 03+ idea

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Aren't 02-05 WRX brakes and 2000-2004 LGT calipers and rotors all the same and only like 10mm larger than 97-99 LGT brakes? Reason was saying the rotors are the same part number or something in a different thread IIRC. And of course the WRX went to 4pots in 06.

[Sarra]

Yes and no.

Mid year 2003, the brackets and brake pads changed on the WRX. Not too sure of the Legacy and Outback.

The rears are different from the Legacy/Outback to the WRX, they're bigger on the Legacy/Outback, at least in 2002 and later. The WRX has a 10.3" rear disc setup whereas the Legacy platform gets an 11" rear disc setup. The WRX rear brakes also changed pad design sometime in 2002/2003.

So, to summerize:

The 2002 WRX front brakes are more or less identical to the front brakes on the 2000-2004 BE/BH, and the 2002 WRX rear brakes are identical to the 1997-1999 LGT.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

What about fronts they all the same?

[Sarra]

The calipers are the same. The brackets are different, the pads are different.

(front) If you take the 2003-2005 brake caliper and put it on a 1998 Legacy GT, you would have to use the same style pad. it's all interchangeable, as long as you match the brackets and the pads.

The 4Pot/2Pot setup is a little different. The caliper bolts straight to the hub, there is no bracket. The brake pads go into the caliper, and then you slide the entire assembly onto the rotor, and then bolt the caliper onto the hub. In the rear, an adapter is required since the STi/STI and 2006+ WRX have different hubs. The adapters are specific to the rear 2 pots, IE, an adapter that works for the 2007 WRX rear brakes (to allow you to bolt them up to a 1997-2004 Legacy/1998-2004 Impreza) will not work on 2005 STi rear 2 Pots.

The front brakes are bolt on as far as I know.

[jamal]

(front) If you take the 2003-2005 brake caliper and put it on a 1998 Legacy GT, you would have to use the same style pad. it's all interchangeable, as long as you match the brackets and the pads.

It is not all interchangeable. You can't put a pre-02 caliper on an post-03 bracket and vice-versa.

[Mr Evolution]

All I can input for this is that the my car the '04 Legacy L had smaller diameter brakes than the same year GT and when it was time to buy brakes I went and changed out the calipers and bracket to the GT size. I think it was like an inch wider.

They are called semi-loaded calipers and it comes with the bracket to clear the larger front disc.

Here is what I got.
I didn't buy it from Rockauto.com, but I often refer to them, because they have great pictures of the parts I am thinking to get.

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1848636&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/BeckArnley/BA%25200771784S-1.jpg

[Mr Evolution]

Good luck on your mission

[rougeben83]

yes, the later BE GT's got 11.4" front rotors (like the WRX) vs. 10.7" in all L's and early GT's.

[Robbks]

I'm currently in the process of replacing my stock BG LGT front 277mm 2-pot brakes for some 294mm 2-pots from an 05 Turbo forester
these are a direct bolt on.
I.e remove old Caliper and rotor
install new larger rotor and matching caliper.
very simple job

The 294mm 2-pot brakes can be found on a variety of cars, JDM BG GTB's had them,
SG+ foresters have them as standard
and also a number of later Legacy models do too.

The 294mm rotor is exactly the same as the 4-pot WRX rotor and these are also a simple bolt-on too (you may need different/ longer brake lines)

[rougeben83]

make that all year of USDM WRX's, and the 05+ Legacy non-turbo models as well. It's pretty much the standard front-brake of the decade for subaru.

[Robbks]

make that all year of USDM WRX's, and the 05+ Legacy non-turbo models as well. It's pretty much the standard front-brake of the decade for subaru.
2-pots or 4-pots?

[greenspeed]

I'm going to post a pic when I finally order my caliper brackets, the size difference from stock 98 lgt to the 02 wrx is astonding, same price just significantly larger, I may have gotten a small chubby.

[TGX4776]

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

[rougeben83]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... tion+brake (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1265631&highlight=compilation+brake)



make that all year of USDM WRX's, and the 05+ Legacy non-turbo models as well. It's pretty much the standard front-brake of the decade for subaru.
2-pots or 4-pots?
the 2 pots. The 4 pots date back to the early 90's actually.

Also, this is the size difference between the wrx 11.4" rotor and the 05+ LGT rotor, dinner plate is 10" :smt005 :

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2009/02/HPIM1170-1.jpg

[greenspeed]

well these brackets are proving impossible to find used :unamused:

However a friend had the 05+ lgt brakes on his wrx, then went to brembo's, and he prefered the LGT brakes, claimed they stopped harder. Me I'm anti 17's wheels :p

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Sorry but I'm trying to wrap my head around this

Fronts
1997-2001 LGTs=277mm (10.7") Vented Front rotors
And 2002-2004 LGTs and 2002-2005 WRX=294mm (11.4") Vented Front rotors

^^Between those they all had the same 2 pot calipers but the 2003-2005 wrxs and 2002-2004 had different brackets and use different pads for some reason?

Rears
So 1997-1999 legacy GTs=10.5" solid rotors and single pot caliper.
And all 2002-2005 WRX's=10.3" solid rotors with the same^ single pot caliper
And 2000-2004 LGTs=11.3" solid rotors with the same ^^ single pot caliper but with a different bracket to accept the larger rotor.

Correct this if its wrong. and what size is the H6 rear upgrade?

[Sarra]

Sorry but I'm trying to wrap my head around this

Fronts
1997-2001 LGTs=277mm (10.7") Vented Front rotors
And 2002-2004 LGTs and 2002-2005 WRX=294mm (11.4") Vented Front rotors

^^Between those they all had the same 2 pot calipers but the 2003-2005 wrxs and 2002-2004 had different brackets and use different pads for some reason?

Rears
So 1997-1999 legacy GTs=10.5" solid rotors and single pot caliper.
And all 2002-2005 WRX's=10.3" solid rotors with the same^ single pot caliper
And 2000-2004 LGTs=11.3" solid rotors with the same ^^ single pot caliper but with a different bracket to accept the larger rotor.

Correct this if its wrong. and what size is the H6 rear upgrade?

The 'H6' rear upgrade is the 11.3" solid rotors from the 2000-2004 LGT/2002+Outback (not just the H6).

The rear calipers may be slightly different in that some are one pin, one bolt, while others are two bolt setups. Otherwise, they're more or less identical.

[Robbks]

Fronts
1997-2001 LGTs=277mm (10.7") Vented Front rotors
And 2002-2004 LGTs and 2002-2005 WRX=294mm (11.4") Vented Front rotors

^^Between those they all had the same 2 pot calipers but the 2003-2005 wrxs and 2002-2004 had different brackets and use different pads for some reason?


2-pot calipers to suit 277mm rotors are completely different than those to suit the 294mm rotors.
same 294mm rotor used for the larger 2-pots and the 4-pots

Also with respect to the rears
JDM GT Leggy's had vented rear rotors from 89->

Also, i have completed the upgrade from 277-294mm 2-pots on the front of my Legacy
and it is quite a nice upgrade.
there were some issues along the way that required some new Braided lines to be made, new pads, etc, etc
but the braking is much much better than before

[Sarra]

Fronts
1997-2001 LGTs=277mm (10.7") Vented Front rotors
And 2002-2004 LGTs and 2002-2005 WRX=294mm (11.4") Vented Front rotors

^^Between those they all had the same 2 pot calipers but the 2003-2005 wrxs and 2002-2004 had different brackets and use different pads for some reason?


2-pot calipers to suit 277mm rotors are completely different than those to suit the 294mm rotors.
same 294mm rotor used for the larger 2-pots and the 4-pots

Also with respect to the rears
JDM GT Leggy's had vented rear rotors from 89->

Also, i have completed the upgrade from 277-294mm 2-pots on the front of my Legacy
and it is quite a nice upgrade.
there were some issues along the way that required some new Braided lines to be made, new pads, etc, etc
but the braking is much much better than before

That is actually, quite untrue.

The front calipers on my 1998 LGT were identical to the front calipers on my WRX. Indeed, when I got rid of my LGT, I kept the stock front brackets and rotors, and downgraded the front brakes on my WRX to accommodate 15" wheels for winter time. The only time you have an issue is when you go from 2 pots to 4 pots. But then, that's not what this is about.

When I upgraded the front brakes on my LGT, all I needed was a pair of brackets and rotors. The calipers bolted right up, the lines were long enough, and the pads fit just fine. No modification at all was needed.

[Robbks]

ahhh, ok i see what you're doing now.
you guys change the outer cage of the caliper to suit the larger rotor and keep the original inner section (parts with slider and pistons, etc).
down here in Aus we just change the whole lot.

pic for a BMW but shows what we mean
http://hock.net/images/bmw/removing-caliper.jpg

[Sarra]

The "Caliper carrier", as it's labeled in your pic, is IDENTICAL between the early 2002 WRX and 1997-1999 Legacy GT, except it is 'longer', accommodating a larger brake rotor. The Caliper itself is EXACTLY identical between a 2002 WRX and a 1997-1999 Legacy GT.

If you go online and put in a 2002 WRX (with the early brake pads) and a 1998 Legacy GT, the brake pads have the same part numbers.

[Lone_legacy]

This thread hurts my head.. I am looking to replace my stock 97 GT front calipers and rotors. I would rather upgrade then replace with oem. Do I buy 02-05 wrx everything or stick with stock gt calipers and wrx rotors and pads. If I go all wrx, do I need any futher adapters/brackets etc?

[Sarra]

This thread hurts my head.. I am looking to replace my stock 97 GT front calipers and rotors. I would rather upgrade then replace with oem. Do I buy 02-05 wrx everything or stick with stock gt calipers and wrx rotors and pads. If I go all wrx, do I need any futher adapters/brackets etc?

So, you're asking if you should replace your GT front calipers with WRX calipers, which are identical, or stick with Stock GT calipers, which are identical. :smt023

Get 2006+ 4 pots. An actual upgrade.

[Robbks]

but using the larger 294mm rotors provides an improvement in braking due to the higher braking torque being applied
----- (force applied further away from the fulcrum = more torque.. (Torque = Force x Distance))-------

the 4-pots don;t apply any extra clamping force than the 2-pots, they just distribute it a little more evenly than the 2-pot sliding caliper design.
the main benefit for a street car is the bigger rotor.

other improvements in braking can be had from a full flush with new DOT4 fluid, braided stainless steel brake lines, a Master-cylinder brace, and careful selection of the actual pads for your needs

[rougeben83]

This thread hurts my head.. I am looking to replace my stock 97 GT front calipers and rotors. I would rather upgrade then replace with oem. Do I buy 02-05 wrx everything or stick with stock gt calipers and wrx rotors and pads. If I go all wrx, do I need any futher adapters/brackets etc?

So, you're asking if you should replace your GT front calipers with WRX calipers, which are identical, or stick with Stock GT calipers, which are identical. :smt023

Get 2006+ 4 pots. An actual upgrade.

No. He has a 2nd gen legacy, the all come with 10.7 (274mm) rotors. WRX rotors are 11.4 (294mm).

The brackets needed to reuse a 2nd gen legacy caliper is only found on the 02-early 03 wrx. The wrx went through a couple of caliper design changes in late 03, then another one in 04-05, then finally to 4 pots in 06-07.

If you find any wrx EXCEPT the early models, you need both caliper and bracket to do the front brake upgrade.

WRX's from 02-05 used the same rear brakes as the 2nd gen legacy.

[Robbks]

The brackets needed to reuse a 2nd gen legacy caliper is only found on the 02-early 03 wrx. The wrx went through a couple of caliper design changes in late 03, then another one in 04-05, then finally to 4 pots in 06-07.

If you find any wrx EXCEPT the early models, you need both caliper and bracket to do the front brake upgrade.


So, by doing what i did (and 99.9% of others here in Aus who have done the similar upgrade)
by using the entire, matching caliper/ bracket/ rotor setup is the EASIEST option to make sure everything is compatible...

I would also assume that this "package" would be widely available in the US as it is here in Aus,
due to WRX owners upgrading to 4-pots from the 294mm 2-pots, given they need to change the caliper and bracket anyway..

JDM Gen2 GT-B also got 294mm 2-pots
and all AUDM/ JDM WRX from MY99 had 4-pots
check with YamazakiSubaru
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15649 (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15649)
about sourcing some brakes from Japan..?

[Lone_legacy]

This thread hurts my head.. I am looking to replace my stock 97 GT front calipers and rotors. I would rather upgrade then replace with oem. Do I buy 02-05 wrx everything or stick with stock gt calipers and wrx rotors and pads. If I go all wrx, do I need any futher adapters/brackets etc?

So, you're asking if you should replace your GT front calipers with WRX calipers, which are identical, or stick with Stock GT calipers, which are identical. :smt023

Get 2006+ 4 pots. An actual upgrade.

Do you have an extra $600-1000 you want to lend me?? If this thread was called FHI 4-pots-for-all then we wouldn't be having this discussion. THanks. I am fully aware that the calipers are identical, I was just wondering whether the brackets are the same. I may be able to come across wrx calipers lighty used more easily then gt calipers which probably have 150k+ on them.

[Yamazaki]

[quote="Lone_legacy":1iaiv317]This thread hurts my head.. I am looking to replace my stock 97 GT front calipers and rotors. I would rather upgrade then replace with oem. Do I buy 02-05 wrx everything or stick with stock gt calipers and wrx rotors and pads. If I go all wrx, do I need any futher adapters/brackets etc?

So, you're asking if you should replace your GT front calipers with WRX calipers, which are identical, or stick with Stock GT calipers, which are identical. :smt023

Get 2006+ 4 pots. An actual upgrade.

Do you have an extra $600-1000 you want to lend me?? If this thread was called FHI 4-pots-for-all then we wouldn't be having this discussion. THanks. I am fully aware that the calipers are identical, I was just wondering whether the brackets are the same. I may be able to come across wrx calipers lighty used more easily then gt calipers which probably have 150k+ on them.[/quote:1iaiv317]
Whoa, what are you talking about?! The FHI 4pots aren't $600-$1000... That'd be ridiculous.

24k gold duh

[Yamazaki]

24k gold duh
:lol:

[Lone_legacy]

Whoa, what are you talking about?! The FHI 4pots aren't $600-$1000... That'd be ridiculous.


http://www.boxer4racing.com/Brakes.htm

$900 just for the fronts on boxer4racing.

My point was that

1) If I could afford to get the 4-pots I wouldn't be posting questions as to early wrx fitment

2) My question was regarding caliper/rotor compatibility on my chassis not whether wrx of gt calipers are identical.

that site isn't very good w/ fairly pricing

[Lone_legacy]

I agree with you. My point wasn't how much the brakes cost, it was that simply telling me to buy 4-pots when I am obviously searching for cheaper solutions via this thread is not a helpful suggestion.

[Robbks]

Given that


2) My question was regarding caliper/rotor compatibility on my chassis
and this as a guide


So, by doing what i did (and 99.9% of others here in Aus who have done the similar upgrade)
by using the entire, matching caliper/ bracket/ rotor setup is the EASIEST option to make sure everything is compatible...


Simply get hold of a complete set of ANY set of (WRX/ Forester/ Legacy/ Outback) 294mm 2-pot calipers/ brackets/ rotors
and whack em on.
done!
here in Australia they go for ~$250 so ~$200US

[Lone_legacy]

Thanks dude. That is helpful. Now to source out some parts...

[rougeben83]

A set of wrx calipers and brackets cost me $150 w/ a set of ebc pads when I did the wrx rotor upgrade 4 years ago, you can probably find a better deal on nasioc or other wrx sites. You should get new rotors and a good set of pads with it anyway.

FHI 4 pots usually sell for about $400-500 w/ pads, sometimes with used rotors (again its up to you whether to reuse the old rotors). This is for a used set. The 2 pot rears are the expensive ones, costing about $500-600 AND another $100-220 on the backing plate or caliper adapters, depending on which mounting route you go with.

[rougeben83]

The brackets needed to reuse a 2nd gen legacy caliper is only found on the 02-early 03 wrx. The wrx went through a couple of caliper design changes in late 03, then another one in 04-05, then finally to 4 pots in 06-07.

If you find any wrx EXCEPT the early models, you need both caliper and bracket to do the front brake upgrade.


So, by doing what i did (and 99.9% of others here in Aus who have done the similar upgrade)
by using the entire, matching caliper/ bracket/ rotor setup is the EASIEST option to make sure everything is compatible...

I would also assume that this "package" would be widely available in the US as it is here in Aus,
due to WRX owners upgrading to 4-pots from the 294mm 2-pots, given they need to change the caliper and bracket anyway..

JDM Gen2 GT-B also got 294mm 2-pots
and all AUDM/ JDM WRX from MY99 had 4-pots
check with YamazakiSubaru
http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15649
about sourcing some brakes from Japan..?

Yes that would be a better idea, especially if you don't get any pics or buying online. And there's no need to source these brakes from Japan, unless youre a JDMwhore; there's plenty of them around here and they don't differ in design.

Other cars that come with this front brake size are 03-04 Legacy GT's and Outbacks, some 05+ 2.5i's and non-turbo outbacks, I think the 08+ WRX's reverted back to the 11.4" 2 pot caliper as well (not the 12.3" 2 pot caliper that was speculated).

[Sarra]

I still don't see why you have to buy brackets AND calipers. Why not just buy the brackets? The actual CALIPER didn't change from the 1997 Legacy GT until 2006, when the FHI 4 pots were introduced.

The bracket is different on the 2003-2005 WRX, but from my understanding, you match the brake pads to the caliper. You can buy a bracket from a 2004 WRX, put it on your Legacy, get larger rotors, and get brake pads specific to the 2003-2005 WRX, and it will work just fine. I couldn't put 2003 style brake pads on my WRX, but I can interchange pads with a 1998 LGT or my Mom's BH.

If you want to buy a loaded caliper with bracket, that's fine. I seriously didn't want to mess around with pulling brake lines off and having to deal with bleeding the brakes, especially since I swap back and forth between the smaller LGT style brakes and the larger WRX brakes four times a year or so, depending on the weather. Plus, it's kinda hard to bleed the brakes with just one person doing it, without a vacuum bleeder or speed bleeders.