new problem

[98outbackpdx]

so today i was driving my outback and when i get down to 10-15 mph the brakes feel like they are sliding and not grabbing and the abs is kicking in.
i had the front brakes and a LF wheel bearing done last week. new rotors and ceramic pads.
the tires are down to between 3-4 32nd left on the kumho tires.
there is no skidding sound
no cel
no abs light.
it is pretty unnerving when you are going down a steep hill and hit the brakes and it feels like it is sliding.
it does stop. the best way to describe what it feels like is it feels like you are trying to stop on packed snow with all seasons.
any ideas?
brake fluid is full.
it is going back to the mechanic on monday morning to figure WTH is going on while it is still under warranty.

[98outbackpdx]

ok update:
ABS light is on and ABS is working.
the car IS locking up the tires.
with the ABS light on it does not lock up.
i will try to get it into the dealership to have the ABS code pulled.
my mechanic thinks it might be a wheel speed sensor.

[toyota>subaru]

Yeah that happened to my car and a friends car. We both just unplugged the abs units and carried on with our lives. I do believe the sensor near the hub is the issue though. Make sure you unplug the abs unit prior to having it fixed. Then you wont have a problem but you will just not have abs.

[98outbackpdx]

Yeah that happened to my car and a friends car. We both just unplugged the abs units and carried on with our lives. I do believe the sensor near the hub is the issue though. Make sure you unplug the abs unit prior to having it fixed. Then you wont have a problem but you will just not have abs.

the brakes DO NOT lock up when the ABS light is on.

also i want to make sure that the abs is not the problem, and i dont want it taking me getting into a crash or stranded somewhere, before i fix it, i do have AAA that will tow me 100 miles, but using AAA is a pain in the A$$

[chuckthefuk]

You said in your first post ABS light off.
Your second post said ABS light on.
Your third post said the brakes DO NOT lock up when the ABS light is on.

Can you explain how this happened?

If the ABS light is on then the ABS pump is not working. There for your wheels HAVE to lock up.

What did you do to throw the abs light?
-Chuck

[harrymaneuvers]

Find the tread in here about pulling your own ABS codes (viewtopic.php?f=39&t=12056&hilit=abs+codes (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=12056&hilit=abs+codes)) Save the $$$ you would pay the dealership for checking the codes and spend it on actually fixing/ repairing the problem.

It will only take a couple minutes to find out which code is causing your abs light to come on. You will have a much better idea once you have this info. The hardest part is finding the plug and two taped wires under your dash above your pedals.

I can tell you from experience that i had this issue for a while. Basically at lower speeds it would feel like my ABS was grabbing/grinding my brakes in sequence with how fast i was going. Meaning... as I slowed down... the rhythm of the pulsing/grabbing also slowed.

Once your abs light comes on... your brakes will be functioning as a normal brake setup without abs. I did this for almost a year with no ill results. Just pull the fuse under the dash that controls your abs and cruise control.

When I had my brakes done a while ago... they told me that my tone wheel on the inside of my hub was broken and missing a large chunk.

The tone wheel looks like a ring with teeth on the inside of your hub. There is an abs sensor that has a precise gap between the tip of the sensor and the tone wheel. (this gap i believe measures the magnetic force of the spinning tone wheel) So that when you are moving down the road... the sensor can detect how fast the teeth of the tone wheel are moving over it.

When mine broke... it was missing about 1/4 of the entire tone wheel... so when that section rotated over the abs sensor... it caused my abs to pulse.

I would check the gap of your abs sensor, the condition of the tip of the sensor, and the condition of the tone wheel.

I ended up buying an entire steering knuckle with tone wheel and bearings for $100 from Specialized parts planet subaru in Rancho Cordova, CA. They will sell it to you with a warranty that covers the part (including bearings!!!!), and labor to replace the part ($75 an hour to the shop that replaces it) for up to three years.

I swapped that out and now my abs works great. AND i dont have to worry about having to do bearings on that side for 3 years!

Hope that helped!

[98outbackpdx]

You said in your first post ABS light off.
Your second post said ABS light on.
Your third post said the brakes DO NOT lock up when the ABS light is on.

Can you explain how this happened?

If the ABS light is on then the ABS pump is not working. There for your wheels HAVE to lock up.

What did you do to throw the abs light?
-Chuck

driving around town and using the brakes causes the ABS light to come on, and the abs light first turned on just yesterday, and i posted this topic BEFORE the ABS light came on. while the ABS light is ON i cannot seem to get the brakes to lock up. i can drive at 30-35 mph slam on the brakes and it does not lock up.

with the ABS light OFF the brakes want to lock up at low speeds. and when i slam on them at 30-35 mph they like to slide with the ABS light off.

also pulling the abs/cruse control fuse is not really an option i do a lot of freeway driving, and i need the cruse control to keep my speed down so i don't get a ticket.

since march i have had both front wheel bearings replaced and the front rotors and pads. also my mechanic is a Subaru tech so i hope he knows what he is doing.

also it is going into the dealer on Friday, i don't want to try and get the ABS codes myself because i have a summer cold and i don't want to mess something up worse that it already is with my head all foggy.

another thing, my family cars that we are drawn to, do the complete opposite of what they are suppose to do.

[harrymaneuvers]

Maybe a caliper sticking???

[98outbackpdx]

Maybe a caliper sticking???

it very well could be a caliper but i am not going to try to figure this out, if i could put an obd 2 scanner in it i would (the free borrowed ones from places like autozone don't do ABS,) but i cannot, so i am taking it to the dealership, if it does not cost to much over the $100 that they charge to scan and trouble shoot :mad: , i might just have them fix it. i have had good luck with the dealership with other Subaru's and a Chevy (it is a GM/Subaru dealership) will let you all know on friday when i get it back.

[harrymaneuvers]

no problem... PM me if you want me to take step by step pictures as to where the abs diagnostic plug is...

In all honesty... it is nothing more than plugging one wire into a specific plug and counting how many times your abs light blinks.

I would bet you could do it in less than 7 minutes (giving you 5 minutes to find the plug.)

Either way... let us know what you find out!!!

[98outbackpdx]

my mom had been driving my car to work and she works 50 miles away. she has been taking my car because it has gas in it. i really dont want to try and trouble shoot, i can change simple things, like a tire, but when it comes to electrical i don't touch it because i tend to break things, so i don't work on my car very often.

[jey]

It's possible the mechanic who did your front brakes/wheel bearing damaged one of your ABS sensors. You can try taking it back and making them fix it.

[StatGSR]

my bet is on a sensor.

[98outbackpdx]

I am going to the dealer where he USED TO WORK to find out what is wrong. then i will take it back if he broke something.

[98outbackpdx]

aaaannnnnndddddd the problem that the dealership found???? LF wheel speed sensor. it works fine above 15 mph but below that it is reading 0 mph, so that is causing the ABS to come on.

[toyota>subaru]

Yeah man this is what a few of us tried to explain at the beginning of this post. Your car should have been able to lock up only when the light was on and the opposite effect when the light was off. When the light was off it should have been slightly letting the wheel roll forward at slow speeds.

for those who run into this problem in the future, just unplug your damn abs unit or take the fuse out IMMEDIATELY. Replace the sensor later.

[98outbackpdx]

what sucks is the cruse control is connected with the abs fuse and if i pull it i will have no CC and i do a lot of driving, i have put in the 14 months i have owned the car i have put on 25K miles. also i know it is not suposto do this but when the abs light is on the CC still works. my moms 98 astro van the CEL has been on for 12k (o2 sensor) and the cruse control still works, it baffels the dealer and it is getting better fuel economy than it ever has. and yes it finally locked up on me with the abs light on, i guess i was not slaming on the brakes hard enough.

[98outbackpdx]

pulled the abs fuse, no CC :mad:

[toyota>subaru]

pulled the abs fuse, no CC :mad:

put the fuse back in and unplug the abs unit. It may have a locking tab that holds a large plug to it. Unplug it and your abs will no longer malfunction (but will not work at all) and you will have your cruise control.

[98outbackpdx]

ok thanks, i will have to find where the unit is, the weather reports are saying 104*F tomarrow where i live, i am not going out there in that heat.

[ouch1011]

That's a pretty typical wheel speed sensor failure because the voltage amplitude from the sensor decreases as the speed decreases. A marginal sensor will produce so little voltage at lower speed that it is not detected, and the ABS unit considers no signal=no speed=wheel lock-up.

[98outbackpdx]

*UPDATE* when the brakes and wheel bearing was done the ABS sensor was not put back in/put back in tight. had it put back in, hooked up the abs computer, and it works! so i am not sure what the dealer pulled with the scan, apparently they are rated #1 for service and sales in the PNW. i would have not found the problem but i got some new super super quiet tires and i did not have the radio on and i heard a metal clanking, my heart just sank i thought it was going to be a big repair job. but nope everything was reattached for free! now no problems. i called the dealer told them something like that had happened 2X first was a ball joint, now an abs sensor both when i got tires on the outback it got over looked.