Harmonic Balancer came off while driving. Misfires solved!!!

[harrymaneuvers]

So I was driving back down to Sacramento from Portland. I have never had any issues with my 99 2.2l so when the cel started to blink at me... I pulled over asap... nothing out of the norm when I popped the hood and all temps were ok. I went about 20 miles to the closest auto parts store that could scan me. While driving there... the cel would blink for a little bit (between 5-35 blinks) then turn off for a while... then start blinking again.

When I got to the auto parts store... the cel was off... the guy scanned it and it showed no codes. So I hop back on the freeway and as soon as I get upto around 70 mph... the cel blinks a few times then stays lit.

So I turn around and head back to the auto parts store and they scan it to find out that it is p0301-p0304... misfire cylinders 1-4. I am shocked because I am pretty in tune with my car and I hadnt even noticed a slight drop in power. At this point I shrug it off as an electrical issue (car has 213k miles on it).

I get back on the freeway and about 200 miles later... I loose power steering, AC and my battery symbol in the dash along with the brake light in the dash light up. I was in the middle of nowhere without a cell signal to even call for roadside so I drove for a little while longer and pulled off the highway right as the car was running out of electricity. (probably from stepping on the brakes as I came to a stop).

I pop the hood and see both of my v-belts slacked (not tight) and my harmonic balancer is just sitting there... tilted between the timing belt cover and my radiator. Bolt still sitting through it!!!! Doesn't appear to be damaged at all...

Luckily a passer by had a tool set with a big enough socket to put the harmonic balancer back on. Which we did... making sure that it was fitted properly with the little notched lined up. I put my belts on, got a jump and off i went.

Driving home the CEL was on the entire time. The only symptom that the car had was: Going about 70 mph i would feel the engine "skip" and i would hear the belts chirp for a split second. About 3 seconds later... the cel would start blinking again. The only way I found to get the cel to stop blinking was to decrease speed slightly then incease speed. It did this randomly every 5-10 minutes.

I get back home and when i pull into the parking spot... I hear "THE TICK"!!!!!!! Sounds like valve noises. I cleared all the codes with my scanner and went for a drive... after about 5 minutes on the highway... Cel is back blinking... then after I pull off... turn off then restart the car... then drive again... it is back on and solid. Same four codes. Misfire on all four cylinders.


Also... last night I went to reset the ecu. I unhooked my negative terminal and let my car sit for 50 minutes. I hooked it back up and started it... no blinking cel to let me know the ecu was reset. I am going to try to do the green/black plugs method today at lunch.

As of right now the car feels like it has 90% power. The idle seems a little rough with the ticking noise. Specifically a rpm based ticking that isn't completely constant. Like it will skip a tick ever so often (every 2-5 seconds maybe).

I cleared the CEL and it hasnt come back on. But I havent been on the freeway yet... although I have romped on the gas from 0-65 mph and it seems that I have most if not all of my power... but once I come back down to cruising speed. I can feel the engine skip/belt chirp every so often without the cel blinking or coming on.

So what do you guys think???

All help is greatly appreciated!!!

[d1giPhux]

I've had mine fall off while driving down the east coast before in my 99 LGT limited. Luckily I was able to get it back on like you were.. however, the misfiring sounds almost like your timing belt may have skipped a tooth or something weird. Not sure exactly how that would be related, but I have also gone through my timing skipping a tooth before and it threw similar codes. Such as misfire on cylinders 1&3 or whatever. Not sure how useful this info is to you.. but you may want to get the timing checked out. Not something you really want to screw up since these are interference engines. Could be worse then you think if you are HEARING a ticking noise, may have fucked up a valve or something. But don't just take my word for it.. wait till some other people chime in. I'm just telling you what i've had happen to me before. These were 2 different incidents and were not related. One was the pulley falling off, and the other was losing all power steering / engine shutting down because the timing belt had broken loose. On another occasion i actually got the timing belt to skip a tooth as well.. that was the time it caused the misfires, etc. If you do have the timing checked / replaced.. make SURE they check all your tensioners and pulleys, as that was the cause of my problems.

[harrymaneuvers]

Yea I had already read a few posts (yours included) that made me think that when the Harmonic balancer came off... maybe it caused the timing belt to skip a tooth or two.

I am getting close to a timing belt replacement anyways so I might just do a valve adjustment and timing belt/ waterpump / pulleys /seals all at the same time.

Any other suggestions????

Maybe seafoam???

What about not being able to reset the ECU?

[d1giPhux]

Seafoam? What would that do?.. thats a bit off subject of the current problems your having. Id worry about de-carbonizing your engine AFTER its back in working condition. While your in there doing the timing belt you might as well do everything else you can back there as well like you mentioned.

You can re-set your ECU by unplugging the batt for a good 30 minutes or so. That should definitely put the ECU back into a 'learn' mode, where you will have to drive around a bit for it to get back up to normal spec with your car.

I wouldn't drive the car too much if I were you, especially if you are hearing a chirping and ticking noises. Could be on your way to catastrophic engine failure if you continue to do so without first figuring out whats going on with your engine.

Hope you can get everything sorted out alright!

[riceboyler]

Could the chirping noise be caused by a belt getting stuck temporarily or possibly the pulley stopping temporarily and then restarting? With your pulley having come off, it would seem something "coaxed" it into coming off, and having it suddenly seize up (bad tensioner or possibly bad A/C compressor, power steering pump, etc.) could be what put pressure on it. I wouldn't drive it if it's chirping, but I'd sure as heck raise hood and watch the motor seeing if you can see anything weird when it chirps.

[d1giPhux]

^ thats definitely a good point. The chirping sounds like it could be one of the pulley stopping / freezing up and then being jerked back into starting. Most definitely check it out before you mangle something that will cost you thousands.

[harrymaneuvers]

ok so when it is just sitting and idling... there is no chirp... just the clicking noise. I only get the chirp just before the cel goes off (as a result of the engine skip/belt chirp)... which i have only been able to recreate at a speed above 70mph... everything up until that point feels just as it should. Then all of a sudden... it is like the engine skips a beat. I dont know for sure but it feels like the engine loses spark for a very quick moment(misfires on cyclinders 1-4) and when that happens... the squeak follows it. Does that make sense? (engine slows quickly but the spinning belt cant slow fast enough and chirps )
I am suspicious of the coil pack and electrical system. Would high rpms/ cruising speeds make a coil on the verge start to act up or would it just fail completely?

I noticed all of my engine bay grounds (stock) are all gunked up with grease and grime. And my battery has some corrosion covering the positive terminal. I am going to pull the battery out tomorrow and completely scrub the terminals and all the engine bay ground points with a wire brush. I am also going to take my battery in for a performance test.


Also... my ac blows ice cold and I can feel it engage and disengage the clutch when the compressor kicks in... that feels normal.

Do you guys think the ticking at idle (I am sure it is at low speeds too but I cant hear it as well with the hood down) and the misfires at higher speeds are related???

Assuming that the battery is good and cleaning all of my grounds doesnt help... would you guys say it is time to just pony up and take it into the local subaru mechanic for an hour of his time?

[riceboyler]

ok so when it is just sitting and idling... there is no chirp... just the clicking noise. I only get the chirp just before the cel goes off... which i have only been able to recreate at a speed above 70mph... everything up until that point feels just as it should. Then all of a sudden... it is like the engine skips a beat. I dont know for sure but it feels like the engine loses spark for a very quick moment(misfires on cyclinders 1-4) and that the when that happens... the squeak follows it. Does that make sense?


What if you have somebody rev it all the way through the rpm band and watch the engine while it's sitting still? If it does it at 70mph-ish, I'd probably focus on the 3K-3.5K RPM range on the tach, as that should be about what you're turning at 70mph in 5th. As far as it feeling like you're losing power immediately prior to the squeak, that makes a lot of sense. It would almost seem that your engine is hiccuping immediately and then once it comes back on, you hear the squeak of the belts being jerked.


I am suspicious of the coil pack and electrical system. Would high rpms/ cruising speeds make a coil on the verge start to act up or would it just fail completely?

I'd be more suspicious of your alternator.


I noticed all of my engine bay grounds (stock) are all gunked up with grease and grime. And my battery has some corrosion covering the positive terminal. I am going to pull the battery out tomorrow and completely scrub the terminals and all the engine bay ground points with a wire brush. I am also going to take my battery in for a performance test.

Grease and grime may not be bad. It may actually act as an insulator. The corrosion on the battery is a worry issue.


Also... my ac blows ice cold and i can feel it engage and disengage the clutch when the compressor kicks in... that feels normal.

Do you guys think the ticking at idle (i am sure it is at low speeds too but I cant hear it as well with the hood down) and the misfires at higher speeds are related???

Assuming that the battery is good and cleaning all of my grounds doesnt help... would you guys say it is time to just pony up and take it into the local subaru mechanic?

Ticking at idle would seem to be a valvetrain issue whereas the misfire would seem to be a little unrelated. Before you take it to a mechanic, get the electric system checked and check the engine at all rpms to see if you can get the misfire/squeak to repeat itself. I'd also pull the plugs, just to see what they look like to see if you maybe are running really rich/lean, which could be an indication of a timing issue.

If all of that checks out, hello mechanic...

Good luck!

[harrymaneuvers]

Excellent reply!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much. I was wondering about my alternator as well... we will see what the performance test has to say tomorrow.


I will also pull the plugs (which are only 3k miles old) and see what they can tell me.


Can anyone input as to what the cause for the valve ticking would be (the initial cause)??? Would it be more likely from the harmonic balancer coming off? Somehow putting the rockers and lifters under stress and causing something to shift or adjust?

Or is it more likely that the valve ticking was caused from the engine doing a VERY fast hiccup at high speeds???

I am not sure what I can do specifically to address the ticking... it doesnt seem like it has anything to do with electrical. Any ideas of something I could do to remedy the ticking before I give up and take it in for a valve adjustment?

Thanks again for all the great replies so far!!!

[d1giPhux]

It sounds like you have a bunch of possibly related, or maybe unrelated problems that are plaguing you. Sometimes its best to pay the $80/hr at a subaru stealership just to have them tell you EXACTLY what the problem is. That way you can go about fixing it yourself. Its basically like cheap insurance.

The Chirping sound definitely sounds like some belt or something is getting caught up /stuck momentarily then jumping back to life. If you can recreate the sound.. maybe you should try to see where its coming from. If the chirp is the timing belt.. could be that your pulleys are bound up / not working anymore, and maybe your tensioners are screwed too. That would also be causing the engine misfire codes. Just a guess.

however.. definitely check out the terminal wires as well.. as I've seen it cause some of the problems you described.

Good luck man.. let us know how it goes!

[harrymaneuvers]

Riceboyler called it!!!!!

Just got back from autozone and my alternator is toast... it is running at about 75%.

I am going to pick up a nice used one with a 3 year parts and labor warranty, as well as a new battery, and do my DIY grounding kit while I am at it.

Then... I will be taking it in to a subaru mechanic to diagnose the engine ticking. I think it is just going to be time for a valve adjustment.

[elislider]

Everything except the ticking sounds like your alternator is gone. bad alternators can cause misfire, CEL's, less-than-full-power feeling, lights going out, dying in the middle of nowhere, and it can alos be really random because they can die and kill the car and not want to start and then later work again before dying again

regarding the ticking, since the 2.2L is a 97+ year, its definitely an interference style (96 and earlier SOHC were non-interference) but hopefully thats not the issue, and i cant imagine the valvetrain was affected by the crank pulley coming off... though its possible you have major underlying engine issues, but without more info its hard to say, so i wont jump to conclusions.

any more information about where specifically the ticking is coming from? if its just general ticking from the engine bay, it could be electrical and not valve noise

[elislider]

Ah good! I was typing while you posted that, but glad to hear the alternator fixed everything except the ticking

it could be that the valvetrain was put under stress from the alternator seizing (the 'chirping') and while everything would be going in time still (so no valve-piston contacting), it might need the lifters reprimed. I COULD be wrong (trying to find documentation on the 99 2.2L engine at the moment) but if believe if you were to just hold the engine at a constant 2500pm at idle, for about 5 minutes, it should make the ticking go away

[elislider]

accidental double post

[harrymaneuvers]

Hmm... Are you saying the will readjust themselves???

I know I have a phase 2 engine so I have solid lifters with an adjustment screw...

I have filled up on gas and have only used about an 1/8 of a tank... so I cant tell yet if I am getting horrible gas mileage yet or not.


I havent replaced the alternator yet... I am going to see how much the one from Specialized parts planet subaru is. I just looked on subarupartsforyou and the OEM alternator is only like $73 before shipping. So unless the used one is like $35 (with a 3 year warranty), I will be getting the new one... as well as a new battery.

Thanks for the input... it is always appreciated.

[elislider]

Hmm... Are you saying the will readjust themselves???
I know I have a phase 2 engine so I have solid lifters with an adjustment screw...
I have filled up on gas and have only used about an 1/8 of a tank... so I cant tell yet if I am getting horrible gas mileage yet or not.
I havent replaced the alternator yet... I am going to see how much the one from Specialized parts planet subaru is. I just looked on subarupartsforyou and the OEM alternator is only like $73 before shipping. So unless the used one is like $35 (with a 3 year warranty), I will be getting the new one... as well as a new battery.
Thanks for the input... it is always appreciated.
Some of them adjust themselves but I dont know the specifics on all the various early 2.2 and 2.5 NA models. I can ask my mechanic friend tomorrow (Dale at NWSS)

[harrymaneuvers]

Well this is weird. I parked my car in the sun and walked a trail to go swimming with my girlfriend... when i got back (about two hours later)

I started the car and noticed that there was absolutely no sign or sound of ticking. AT ALL... I let it idle for a while and still couldnt hear it.

The only thing that I can think of is that the car was about 80% warm when I started it... instead of bone cold. But I have heard the ticking constantly since the issue began... at all operating temps.

I would be real curious to hear what Dale has to say before I spend money on a local Suby mechanic.

[elislider]

Let us know if the ticker persists for a few more days (assuming you drive it at least a few miles a day)

[harrymaneuvers]

After MANY MANY hours of reading:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... uff&page=3 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1472120&highlight=woodruff&page=3)

It looks like when the crank pulley(harmonic balancer) came undone... it chewed up and rounded out the woodruff key!!!

I am going to have a timing belt/ waterpump service done next week and have the key replaced and a new Perrin lightweight crank pulley installed... I will let you guys know if this cures it 100% (it really should... fingeres crossed)

[ouch1011]

When you have the tbelt done, make sure to torque the crank bolt to the correct torque spec. The firing impulses of the engine while running will actually work to loosen up the crank bolt, which is probably what happened to you, so if you don't put it on tight enough, it will eventually back out. And it doesn't have to back out that much for the pulley to fall off since the crank snout is so short on these engines.

[harrymaneuvers]

Good advice...

The last time that bolt was even touched was when the tbelt and water pump were replaced when I bought the car... 73k miles ago.

[ouch1011]

May have just taken that long to back out enough...it doesn't just miraculously fall out on its own if it is properly tightened :)

[harrymaneuvers]

Ok... so Saturday a friend and I tackled the timing belt issue... Sure enough... as soon as we get the belt off and begin to inspect the woodruff key on the crank shaft... there is rotational play between the crank sprocket and the crank shaft. Meaning... while it is still fully attached to the crankshaft... I can grab it and rotate it to the left and to the right ever so slightly.

I get it off and the woodruff key is jacked up... furthermore... the key way inside the crank sprocket isnt completely straight anymore... one side of it is pushed over a little bit allowing for the sprocket to be able to rotate a few degrees to the left...
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/07/4834599416_5aa31c8bf3_b-1.jpg

We got everything taken off and put a new woodruff key ($2 from stealership), a used crank sprocket from another ej22 engine (free), and a used Perrin LW crank pulley ($50).

Fired her up and no CEL!!!! To test everything... me and the girlfriend went on a 260 mile trip from Sacramento, up US 50 to South Lake Tahoe, then up the east side of Lake Tahoe to North Lake Tahoe... Then back down I80 to Sacramento.

The first hour or two of the trip was weird... no CEL's but the power just didn't feel all there. For instance... going 60mph with the ac on... i would have to downshift once i started going up a hill, just to maintain my speed. It was noticeable to the point where I was expecting to see the CEL flash at me... but it never did... and I ran it HARD!!!

The second half of the trip was flawless... 100% full power... everything has been perfect since.

New Question:

I notice that every time I disconnect my battery for more than an hour and reconnect it (trying to reset my ecu)... my CEL NEVER flashes to let me know it is in learn mode... is this maybe because I have the EJ22 from the 99 legacy??? I have read somewhere that some of the newer engines needed their ecu reset with a scantool. I am thinking the change in power from the first half of the trip from the second half of the trip was maybe my ECU adjusting itself without being reset???

[jey]

There is no "learn mode"...

[harrymaneuvers]

I thought that the first time you start your car after resetting the ecu, the cel blinks when you first fire up the engine. This tells you that you successfully reset your ecu and that it is relearning your driving habits...

[jey]

I've never seen that in either my 95 or my 98 Legacy.

[harrymaneuvers]

So there is absolutely nothing to tell you that you have reset your ecu???

[StatGSR]

nope

[anothernord]

The only indication that the ECU has reset that I've ever found is that it idles higher for a little while if the engine is cold. If you really want to make 100% sure you reset the ECU, pull the negative battery cable, then pull back the passenger footwell carpet, unbolt the ECU cover, and unplug the harness from the ECU.

[harrymaneuvers]

Got it. Then I think that it just took an hour or two and a hundred or so miles for it to find its groove. Like I mentioned, she is running like a champ now!!!!!

Thanks for all who helped out. I really hope this post helps someone the way the nasioc post helped me!

[elislider]

when you reset the ecu, the first startup afterwards will probably sound differently than youre used to. for example, it might want to die, or rev higher or lower than it usually does, while it recalibrates everything. thats it though, give it 5 seconds and it should idle normally, and after driving it for 5 minutes it will be back to 100% normal operation

[harrymaneuvers]

Noted!

Well thank you for all who helped out with this one.

It has now been a full week of daily driving and everything is back to normal.

[JunkerXL]

hello, been lurkin, thought id join up and comment. i had a 93 impreza that had a similar problem. (the pulley falling off) the stupid woodruff key was mess up pretty bad from a bad previous repair. i bought the car that way, no biggie, but where i had trouble was not being able to get the old key out. it was REALLY in there. i bought a new pulley, but the key, predictably wore a groove in the new one (kinda had to see it to grasp it), so i filled the groove and the back side of the pulley with jb weld, and then put locktite on the bolt, and tightened it for the ages. it never gave me trouble again, and because jb weld is brittle i could get it off with a few "gentle" whacks of a rubber mallet, after the bolt was out. but anyway, since doing battlefield repairs is less than ideal, i gotta know, how did you get the key outa there? not that i plan on that happening again, but its good to know how. :)

[harrymaneuvers]

Well I decided that I was just going to do a timing belt/water pump job while I was in there... I took the fans and radiator out to give me extra room. The crank bolt was barely hand tight so the damaged crank pulley came off easily. The crank sprocket was more difficult however. Even though it had a tiny bit of rotational play, when I went to slide it off of the end of the crankshaft, it wouldnt budge. I ended up using a two jaw puller to get it off.

http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/truth_puller_2jaw_cropped.jpg

The key itself wasnt true anymore. The top of it (not the part that sits in the crankshaft keyway but the part that slides into the keyway in the crank sprocket and the crank pulley) had shifted to the right a little bit. Once the crank sprocket was off... the key literally fell off of the crankshaft because it was pointed down due to having the timing marks lined up. I had only been driving with it that way for maybe a two weeks. If you drove around with a jacked up key/keyway for an extended period of time before you fixed it with the JB weld... it might have been pounded in there really really good. That would be the only thing i can think of?!?! Putting the new key in, I had to hold it on the crankshaft while I slid the crank sprocket and crank pulley over it... So it isnt like it is hammered in or out of its keyway in the crankshaft.

[JunkerXL]

lol i'll remember that when i do my timing belt, i will watch for the key to be tweaked, my key was tweaked the exact same way. the jb weld thing was a shot in the dark, last resort, to get me back to the office until i could come up with a better solution, lol worked like a champ, with the lock tight and the severe tightening i gave it :)

[harrymaneuvers]

I was thinking about using an aluminum can to make super skinny shims to try to wedge into the gap between the key and the keyway... but loctite and extreme tightening has seemed to fix it... at least for the last 2k miles... :smt023

[Grafton]

the crank sprocket is ~23 at the dealer...
ask me how i know

[JunkerXL]

I was thinking about using an aluminum can to make super skinny shims to try to wedge into the gap between the key and the keyway... but loctite and extreme tightening has seemed to fix it... at least for the last 2k miles... :smt023
my kinda ghetto mechanix! :cool:
id fix it right though asap, since your car is actually worth fixing lol

[harrymaneuvers]

You guys are misunderstanding... I think.

There is a VERY VERY tiny gap between the key itself, and the keyway in the crankshaft... the only way to actually repair it would be to replace the crankshaft or drop a new engine in there. Or jb weld like the previous post mentioned.

The crank sproket (replaced) fits incredibally tight over the crankshaft and the key. I combined that with some loctite and a good torque on the crankshaft bolt... I havent had any issues.

[JunkerXL]

ahh less ghetto but more -breaks less- ftw!

[elislider]

yeah unfortunately if you wear out the keyway too much, the only way to fix it is with a new crank! though in cases like this I dont see too much problem with some jbweld or a tiny shim in there. its not like the crank pulley needs to be oriented at a precise degree of rotation or something, its not related to timing at all.

[1-3-2-4]

I think bits of rubber came off my HB I started getting misfires 1-4 on my car and the car just felt funny when I took it to 5500 rpms, about 20 seconds later I lost my belt for the alt & PS and when it was safe to pull over I saw the HB wobbling up and down.

What I don't get is if it's bolted how can it move up and down like that?

[harrymaneuvers]

When you say bolted down... do you mean tight?

The pulley fits over the crank pretty snuggly so if it is rocking, tilting, wbbling then odds are you need to take it off and inspect.

I could see the balancer loosing some rubber over time which causes the rotation of the engine at high rpms to start to wear into the perfect circle that the HB should. Hopefully it is your HB that got an oval in it and not the end of your crank.

[1-3-2-4]

It was tight, I pulled out my Tq wrench on the highway and took out the drivers side radiator fan and checked and it was not loose at all, on the pictures I saw none of them wore into a perfect circle, but here is a video I did on the side of the highway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S6wZZEkaAA

[1-3-2-4]

http://imageshack.us/a/img528/9153/img8490b.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img836/8797/img8491id.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/2980/img8493iw.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img543/8084/imag0293g.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/imag0293g.jpg/)

[liggity]

Mine was wobbling just like that right before this happened....
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/09/iPhone2520Sync252061420122520468JPG-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/09/iPhone2520Sync252061420122520519JPG-1.jpg
The rubber just tore all to hell. Replaced it with a Perrin Pulley. You take the whole pulley off and inspect?

[liggity]

Sorry, just saw you did take it off and posted just as I posted.

[1-3-2-4]

Mine seemed to happen because of the woodruff key which is odd.. It did not loosen (bolt) so why after a year and a half this?

[liggity]

Not a clue. All I know is that I've seen that happen before. My only guess is that it's just a flaw that happens over time. I've only seen it happen in really high mileage Subis.

[harrymaneuvers]

Who knows. That bolt hadnt been touched in 75k miles since I bought it and had the used lot do the timing belt too.

I would take a really close look at the woodruff key now that it chewed up the HB like that. If the woodruff key is knarled then you will need to take your timing covers of, remove the crank sprocket and replace the woodruff key with a new one.


This is the point that I discovered the keyway for the woodruff key to sit in was scared.

[liggity]

Luckily mine was ok. I noticed some knocking inside my timing belt cover and figured it was the tensioner gettin loose. So even though it was only 50k into the last timing belt, I changed it. Glad I did too, cause the passenger side cam was a tooth off. Car ran completely different after I fixed that.
So while I did all that I checked the key out too, and all was good. Figure I'll check that every 10K miles now though. haha! Cars up to 167,000 now.

[1-3-2-4]

I'm at 242K on my car

[1-3-2-4]

A little update my perrin crank pulley came in today.. I noticed when I just slid on the pulley and tried to move the crank I felt the key shift, so I took the pulley off and touched the key it moves side to side but the crank sprocket is still on so I think the key broke? or rotated out of the slot?

I wont know until the dealer gets back to me about my new bolt and key that I have been waiting for about a week now.

[harrymaneuvers]

Yea that key should be solid and in place... especially if the crank sprocket is over it too.

[1-3-2-4]

Yeah who knows what happened as soon as the dealer gets back to me I will pick it up, I'm going to be super pissed if they forgot to email me my order was ready and it's been sitting around for 3 days.