Data Gathering.... EJ22 Phase 2 build.....

[LunchBox04V]

Well, with all the other fun builds that are going on now, I thought I would jump on the band wagon and post my current project/data gathering. I am planning on doing a "fluff up" on the original EJ22 Phase 2 that is in my car already. I thought about going EJ25, but with having to swap ECU's and what not, I would just be happy with a simple ish build up to the 2.2. So, here is the list, and anything that you folks can through in that I am forgetting please chime in. And yes, this would be my first rebuild of a Subaru engine..... Oh the learning that will happen! Lol


Phase 2 EJ22 Parts
- Cams
Delta Torque Cams (The new ones Ken was talking about)
- Lightweight Flywheel
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
- Lightweight Pulley
Perrin Crank Pulley
- Clutch Set
OE Clutch and Pressure Plate (push type, I think)
- Port and Polish
- Balancing
- New Seals / Rings / Pistons / etc.
- Wrap factory header.

Car has:
- Custom cat back.
- Mod to intake.

Target power:
- Well..... Factory NEW start point was 142hp and 149 lb/ft at the crank.
- It would be nice to get to 155-160 hp, and 165-170 lb/ft at the crank. Essentially EJ25 normal area with a faster rev.

Any suggestions or additions to the list would be greatly appreciated. Again, this will be my first major cracking into a Subaru motor (slated to do the work in Feb. 2011 if all goes to plan). I will be contacting Ken at Delta cams once I get home from work, so see what information he has on the torque cams for the phase 2.

[Grafton]

get a EL header if your trying to make power, You might fall short of you goals without it

[LunchBox04V]

I was thinking that too after I posted. Wrapped either way though. I am kinda interested to talk to Delta cams and see what the deal is with the cams. I have never done cam stuff before, so I am a little under-informed on the regrinds and such. Relibility and longevity wise. And any clutch/pressure plate recomendations? I was going to go with OE.

[Reason]

See if Delta has stage 2 cams for your heads. I have the torque grinds, and even though I like them, I wish I went with stage 2's. I may switch them out on this next motor build. And you may throw misfire codes with the lighten crank pulley and flywheel.

[Grafton]

See if Delta has stage 2 cams for your heads. I have the torque grinds, and even though I like them, I wish I went with stage 2's. I may switch them out on this next motor build. And you may throw misfire codes with the lighten crank
pulley and flywheel.

delta just came out with a torque grind for the phase 2 2.2 i havn't heard anything about a hp/stage2 grind

OP: as for reliability and such there havn't been any comlaints on rs25 that i know of just expect a little more valve train noise, as for headers you'll see a gain even on a stock motor, with cams you really want them because of the increase VE of the engine

[LunchBox04V]

Agreed on the multiplication of cams and headers. I will give Delta a call Monday once I am done working. It would be interesting if the had a Stage 2 cam set. Would that normally require some form of ignition and fuel modification? The misfire code was one thing I remember hearing about.... and was a little worried about.... hmm If i had to choose between the flywheel and the crank, which one would you folks think? I have to believe that the flywheel would give better gains, just based off the size and weight of the rotating mass.

[Grafton]

Agreed on the multiplication of cams and headers. I will give Delta a call Monday once I am done working. It would be interesting if the had a Stage 2 cam set. Would that normally require some form of ignition and fuel modification?
The misfire code was one thing I remember hearing about.... and was a little worried about.... hmm If i had to choose between the flywheel and the crank, which one would you folks think? I have to believe that the flywheel would give better gains, just based off the size and weight of the rotating mass.


you dont normally need any ign or fuel tinkering but if you have a 3 wire ignition coil you can use a neon msd coil (23Kv vs. 34Kv)

as for the misfire it varies from car to car the general held belief is pully + flywheel = cel and sometimes cams + flywheel = cel

by far the flywheel showes better gains personally I'd chance it and got for the flywheel

[Zac]

I've talked to Ken about rebuilding my old phase 1 EJ22

He said with the cam regrinds, mild PnP and supporting mods such as exhaust and flywheel he reckoned I could hit 190bhp no problem.

[LunchBox04V]

Well I will give him a call tomorrow and get the information up here. I find 190hp, even at the crank, a little bit of a stretch. Lol maybe on a H22 Honda. I am getting a little more motivated to do this seeing as that I am approaching the 200k mark, and today I threw a P1133...... O2 sensor heat low..... I am going to add new sensors to the list of things to change out.

Oh, and what issues are there with the motor throwing a misfire code? I imagine that this would put e ECU into safe mode(retard timing and what not).

[Zac]

LW flywheel plus pulley will throw misfire codes at idle.

[mike-tracy]

LW flywheel plus pulley will throw misfire codes at idle.

not for a lot of us

[Huffer]

LW flywheel plus pulley will throw misfire codes at idle.

Depends on how LW you are - the 9.5lb flywheel might, the 14lb ones shouldn't.

[LunchBox04V]

Yeah, I was looking at he ACT flywheels. I thing the Streetlite was more my style at 14lbs. The Prolite just seemed to be extreme for a daily driver. I think that plus the cams would be a good combo for a daily driven car.

I just got off the phone with Ken from Delta Cams. Nice guy, and full of information. Here is what I found out:

Stage 1 (Torque Grind) for the Phase 2 EJ22
180* Duration, with a .308" lift.
Solid lifters would be fine, but cars with HLAs would need shims, which he would supply.
Stock valve springs will not stack (More than .060" between coils) which is good!

They DO offer a stage 2 grind(230* duration, did not get the lift), but he said that it would move the power band into the upper range a fair amount. But, as you would expect, there is a better hp, up there as a result.

They are as he posted here: $93.50 + Core + Shipping.

Does anyone know what the stock cams duration and lift was?.... Just to compare and all.... What do you folks think? Anyone done them here yet? lol It would be funny if I was the first.....

[subie/legacy]

Reason, parkcityboy are currently running Delta Cams, but I think they are both Phase I...

[Reason]

Yes i have phase 1 2.2's w/Delta cams. Ken is very he
lpful

[LunchBox04V]

Cool. Yeah, I see that you like them a few posts up Reason. You also said that you would have rather gone with the stage 2..... I sound like a noob, you think that the stage 2's would be ok on a daily driver? lol I am a little undecided on which ones to go with. I am thinking that I might go with the Stage 1 to keep it simple and keep the torque lower. But having a little more top end would be nice too. Choices, choices.....

[LunchBox04V]

Does anyone know what the stock duration and lift is on the Phase 2 or even the phase 1 EJ22? I was looking at some of the EJ25 stage 1's and they were closer to 230* and .380". Just wondering....

[subie/legacy]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... t+duration (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292519&highlight=phase+2+lift+duration)
I didn't read through all of it, but it may have what your looking for

[Reason]

I guess it depends on your driving style. I want to try the stage 2's. I can't say i rather have them.

[jey]

A couple other ideas for more NA power
- thin head gaskets to bump up the compression
- S-AFC to tune the fuel delivery a little at WOT/open loop mode

[LunchBox04V]

^ Jey, yeah I thought about adding an S-AFC to the mix.... Just was hoping to not have to start getting into wiring. But you are 100% right, to get the most of this build, it would be needed. I thought the Subaru ECU would learn around corrections though. And here is what was in that Nasioc thread.....

Phase 2 EJ22 head info from the manual:

cam base circle 34.00mm

Intake Lift-Service limit 4.632mm
Intake Lift-Standard 4.732-4.832mm
Exhaust Lift-Service Limit 5.157mm
Exhaust Lift-Standard 5.257-5.357mm

Cam Timing

IVO:2 BTDC
IVC:50 ABDC
EVO:46 BBDC
EVC:6 ATDC

8 Degrees valve overlap

Intake Duration 232 degrees
Exhaust Duration 232 degrees

So..... Getting a little confused..... The specs that Ken gave me for the Stage 1 Torque grind was 180* and 7.83mm(.308"). The stock cams are 232* Again, I am not an expert.... I understand the increased lift will help..., but wouldn't the 180* of duration reduce scavenging? Wouldn't you want a greater duration, not a smaller one? Thanks for all the help.

[jey]

The wiring is actually not too bad. It's just a piggyback so you'll need to tap into the signal for the throttle, air flow, engine speed, and fuel delivery, and that's it. Oh and 12V power too obviously.