twin turbo , should i or shouldnt i

[DCM-LEGACY]

so ive been looking at getting the ej20 from the b4 rsk, i have the money and the opperotunity ,the only thing im not sure about is. is it worth it or should i throw together a turbo kit for my ej251?

[Airgne]

reuben will chime in here soon and tell you no.

i will say if you can get everything than go for it, but know that your steering will not line up. you will have to re route it around the turbo.

[DCM-LEGACY]

reuben will chime in here soon and tell you no.

i will say if you can get everything than go for it, but know that your steering will not line up. you will have to re route it around the turbo.
i know that i will have to redo the piping to each turbo, i planned on that, the steering rack is in the way. but i dont know why the engine has always been kinda a dream to me, and i would want to some day get a blank ecu and have it custom tuned with a 255 block. but that would be a feet in its self. i just want to know if the engine is actually worth the 600

[Airgne]

what ej twin turbo is it? the only good one really is a ej208

[DCM-LEGACY]

not really sure i will check it out now

[DCM-LEGACY]

http://www.tigerjapanese.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=26 (http://www.tigerjapanese.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=413&category_id=11&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

[Airgne]

there is a sticky explaining the twin turbos of subaru.

[Airgne]

well the impreza never had a twin turbo, so i would ask them. it looks like a auto tranny. that is not a ej208 if it is out of a auto.

[DCM-LEGACY]

i know the issues with them, and there likely hood of creep and the dead zone

[Yamazaki]

well the impreza never had a twin turbo, so i would ask them.
I wouldn't ask them anything. look at what they call these other engines (click on for links):
EJ20 DOHC Engine 5 Speed Transmission Twin Turbo Subaru WRX STI (http://www.tigerjapanese.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=28&category_id=11&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)
EJ20 DET SOHC Engine 5 Speed Transmission Subaru Legacy (http://www.tigerjapanese.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=411&category_id=11&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

I'm a little wary of places that have no idea what they have so they make stuff up. Places like that are the reason I went obsessive about learning everything I can (or at least gathering information) about the Impreza and Legacy.

[DCM-LEGACY]

thats what i thought to, but i have had a few friends buy engines from here. never was a subaru engine, but any defects in the engine or components and the company will repair or replace it. the only reason why i trust it, is i have a buddy with a delsol he bought a b18c5 from these guys for. and the engine had a bad valve cover so they sent him and entirely new engine.

[BG5guy]

id be careefull with them. In regards to your buddies b18c5, those motors are cheap compared to a TT subi motor, i doubt they would replace it or even be able to find parts because they are rare in the states. Not to mention most shops around at least my area wont touch TT because they have issues and if something goes wrong, they dont wanna be liable. I would build a bad ass motor with the moneye you plan to put down on a TT. I thought about doing that to my 97 wagon, but decided against it. Good luck with whateever you end up doing

[StatGSR]

^ put down your crack pipe bud, a b18c5 + tranny is $4000, TT suby motors are $500 dime a dozen engines....

[BG5guy]

not in oregon lol. i built a b18c5 for my DA only ran about 4k for everything, motor, tranny, internals. I was quoted oveer 12k for twin turbo build for my 97 GT. Guess it varies on where u live. Hondas are on eevery corner of every block X 10 where i live which makes parts cheap.

[Robbks]

I own a TT legacy and it will stay a TT.
but do NOT buy one to run it as a TT.

what year/ model will it be going into?

[StatGSR]

not in oregon lol. i built a b18c5 for my DA only ran about 4k for everything, motor, tranny, internals. I was quoted oveer 12k for twin turbo build for my 97 GT. Guess it varies on where u live. Hondas are on eevery corner of every block X 10 where i live which makes parts cheap.

um, its still only a $500 engine from any engine importer. Yes there is a substantial amount of work to get on in your car, but that doesn't make the engine itself more expensive.

yea, parts can be cheap on hondas (until you start buying the good stuff), but b18c5s are not "cheap" in the way everything else is for honda's is. you can get jdm wrx engines for half the price or less of a b18c5. I understand your a honda guy and know that stuff, but apparently there is still some suby stuff you dont know.

[BG5guy]

ya im not to familiar with the TT subaru stuff. I entertained the idea for about a week and was scared away by the quote i recieved from shops in my town. All my experience as a subaru tech has been mainly WRX and STI builds/mods. And im not arguing that b18c5 engines are not expensive, but where i am from they are more commen then TT subaru stuff.

[StatGSR]

^ well yea, that's cause a TT doesnt come in anything over hear or even bolt into anything in the states besides a ex postal wagon...

i would love to see the breakdown of cost on that quote you got though, would be interesting.

[Reuben]

reuben will chime in here soon and tell you no.

Cheers mate. My work here is done :lol:


On a serious note, if you're in America, only way to do it is get a full front cut, with trans, dashboard, and firewall.



i know that i will have to redo the piping to each turbo, i planned on that, the steering rack is in the way. but i dont know why the engine has always been kinda a dream to me, and i would want to some day get a blank ecu and have it custom tuned with a 255 block. but that would be a feet in its self. i just want to know if the engine is actually worth the 600
Tuning is out of the question, either do a WRX swap and mod, or TT swap and leave it as is. Start fucking with a TT, and it bites you back. You gotta know the fuckers inside and out if you want to play that game.




well the impreza never had a twin turbo, so i would ask them.
I wouldn't ask them anything. look at what they call these other engines (click on for links):
EJ20 DOHC Engine 5 Speed Transmission Twin Turbo Subaru WRX STI (http://www.tigerjapanese.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=28&category_id=11&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)
EJ20 DET SOHC Engine 5 Speed Transmission Subaru Legacy (http://www.tigerjapanese.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=411&category_id=11&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

I'm a little wary of places that have no idea what they have so they make stuff up. Places like that are the reason I went obsessive about learning everything I can (or at least gathering information) about the Impreza and Legacy.
Bahahahahaha. TT STi, EJ20DET. Note to self... AVOID!

[Cervantes]

if youre in the US, i would stay single turbo. less of a hassle, and i think you would enjoy it more in the long run.

[lord flashheart]

i agree stay single turbo. less head aches. easier to find people to work on it and parts. plus turbo tech has come so far that you might as well go single turbo. thats why subaru discontinued the twin turbo. cuz single turbos have come so far that there isnt a point in dealing with the emissions standards of a TT.

[Reuben]

Yup, Subaru dropped TT's cause A; it was a failure, and B; twinscroll turbo's came on the scene. (JDM gen 4's are all twin scroll 2L's if you didn't know)

[lord flashheart]

i dont know a ton about the twinturbo but i wouldn't call it a full on failure... just obsolete or out of date maybe. the boxer turbo diesel uses a variable geometry turbo and i dont know why they dont slap one of those on instead of the twin scroll. IMO the VGTs are cooler than the twin scroll.

[Yamazaki]

Yup, Subaru dropped TT's cause A; it was a failure, and B; twinscroll turbo's came on the scene. (JDM gen 4's are all twin scroll 2L's if you didn't know)
i dont know a ton about the twinturbo but i wouldn't call it a full on failure...
That's because it wasn't. Reuben has some weird obsession with trying to eradicate twin turbos from the planet.
I've said before that my completely factory 3rd gen twin turbo outperforms a lightly modified (intake, exhaust) 4th gen Tuned by STI Legacy. Fact.



But I wouldn't go through the work of throwing one into a car that doesn't fit it well. It isn't THAT much better to make it worth the trouble. The maintenance costs seem to be higher, and it isn't what you call a "simple" design. I think those are the main reasons for switching back to single turbo. It's all speculation though.

[Reuben]

Reuben has some weird obsession with trying to eradicate twin turbos from the planet.
I've said before that my completely factory 3rd gen twin turbo outperforms a lightly modified (intake, exhaust) 4th gen Tuned by STI Legacy. Fact.

It's probably my colourful history with them. I just try and make them sound worse than they actually are on the American forums to try stamp out that 'more is better' halo that floats around them in America. They think that 2 being more, must be better. All it is, is simply a different way of packing the same punch.
At the end of the day, when i converted my GTB, i went from 206KW.... to 206KW... I just removed a whole ton of crap, VOD, and opened the car up to a bright future of modification it didn't have as a BG TT (not in NZ at any rate, the US would be worse off still).

I'm also helping an anonymous member here with his twin turbo swap as a matter of fact, so i'm not 100% anti TT :smt016 I've even said countless times that if i ever owned a BE or BH5D, it'd stay twin turbo for sure, and i'd gladly own a D :grin: .



the boxer turbo diesel uses a variable geometry turbo and i dont know why they dont slap one of those on instead of the twin scroll.
Exhaust heat, kills the mechanisms in em (diesels burn much cooler). Porsche to date have been the only ones to overcome this issue, and i bet it wasn't cheap! That's the last i heard about it at least.

[LunchBox04V]

I thought the Acura MDX also had a VG turbo. In fact am sure of it. However, I have no idea how the reliability is.... But being a Honda product I would be willing to bet it is pretty good. Lol

[Reuben]

The last i read was an article a while ago about porsche being to the first to use a VG turbo on a petrol burner, so i'm probably a bit behind on the game :P

The point is, it's still new tech for the petrol guzzlers, give subaru a chance to get on the bandwagon :p (it bloody took them long enough to go twinscroll, and even then, they never shared that with SOA).

[StatGSR]

I thought the Acura MDX also had a VG turbo. In fact am sure of it. However, I have no idea how the reliability is.... But being a Honda product I would be willing to bet it is pretty good. Lol

its actually the RDX that has the Turbo K23. the MDX uses one of honds V6s.

i think the RDX turbo is still a TDO4, though one with a Variable Flow valve at the exhaust side. not sure if the turbo itself is actually much different than a regular TD04

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/09/vft_valve-1.jpg

[lord flashheart]

thats not a VGT tho. the RDX turbo has a valve to control the pressure. the VGT is a turbo that actually changes the the vains to change the about of boost that is produced. VNT is the same concept.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2010/09/7a0d33200c3b49f28298b32868853342-1.jpg

[Reuben]

All this tech to reduce turbo lag (the boost threshold to use the proper term). It's almost like they don't want a turbo in the first place.

I don't know about you, but half the reason i like turbo's is for that kick in the back you get when you come on boost...

[JunkerXL]

im gonna catch on fire, i think, but i will chime in to confirm and repeat what pretty much everyone else will say, with a touch more optimism :smt005 .

i like the tt engines for non modded daily driver work, simply for a lack of stateside parts (though, as with any engine, it CAN be modded, but it depends on what your willing to spend). i have had 2 jdm motors, maybe 3 in various cars, and finding oddball parts sux :smt019 . bearing that in mind, i'm buddies with a drifter and he used jdm stuff all the time, and just lives with the fact that parts can be a pain. that being said, unless its an rhd postal wagon, its a pain in the wagon back.

biggest headache? wiring. then, its the turbos, or if i remember correctly, the primary turbo. it's positioning doesn't clear the steering shaft. and maybe the brake master cyl. you WILL save alot of $ on the motor and if you are dedicated, you'll be among the few who have pulled it off :shock: . but given that converting the tt to single turbo is an easier way to go about fitting it in a usdm car, after retrofit "taxes" (all the stupid junk you have to buy/do to convert it to single turbo), pain tax, and irritation fees, you may be more inclined to go single turbo from the get go and save the time, and since time = $, possibly some cash also.

single turbos also have a larger us knowledge base. something to consider. i plan on doing a tt swap myself when i find the right postal wagon, and have a couple grand to kick around, but its not a low priced dream come true, more like a low priced entry into the headache filled world of jdm motor swaps, problematic installs, and the sl-i hall of fame if you pull it off :smt023 .



:smt020

[Reuben]

Junker, i'd recommend actually scrapping the postal wagon idea, and instead focus on getting a BG instead of BK. I've seen numerous firewall cuts, it's entirely possible. You can't rock the TT seriously, and not have a stepped roof to go with!

That's my opinion at least. Just saying, to those who want to chase the JDM dream, you can't do it in a BK.

[JunkerXL]

lol i just like having the ability to go through the drive through backwards. :lol: easier in a bk since they are somewhat common among used postals here, and i dont have to worry about steering clearance. BUT! rhd BG would be boss-um. slammed with a high roof and killer ob front bumper. it would cost a similar amount, and i would pretty much have the front end apart anyway... :roll:

now you got me all confused, thanks a lot :smt013



:smt020

[lord flashheart]

i some what agree but in my car i dont get boost till about 3200 RPMs. which is about 20 miles per hour. i wish i could get it at 10. cuz then i would still get a little lag but i want the power as well.
i totally shocked the socks off some 98-ish mustang GT when he wanted to race and my car pulled down his pants and spanked him.

[lord flashheart]

i agree scrap the postal car. get a BG with DARK tint and no one will know what side of the car the wheel is on. plus its going to be WAY more work than its worth. IMO

[JunkerXL]

that's everyone's "O". lol it is alot of work, but if i take it on it will be for that reason. im sick like that. i have a car covered in rust, my sedan, and im strangely excited about killing the rust, and getting it back to factory. it's pretty boring where i live, no car meets (cept muscle cars), no malls, pretty much just mountains, and gorgeous roads. leaves me with a lot of free time. one fo the reasons i started making pipes. the one thing standing in my way? no garage.. :smt013 i need one. so i can just let my projects come along at their own pace, and not be rushed by weather, or the city getting on my case :roll: .



:smt020

[Reuben]

i some what agree but in my car i dont get boost till about 3200 RPMs. which is about 20 miles per hour. i wish i could get it at 10. cuz then i would still get a little lag but i want the power as well.
i totally shocked the socks off some 98-ish mustang GT when he wanted to race and my car pulled down his pants and spanked him.

This is why man invented launching. Sheeeesh.

[lord flashheart]

lol ive got an auto... for the GF...

[Reuben]

>implying you can't launch an auto

Foot on brake. Foot on Gas. Release Brake. Zoom!

If i were you though, the mrs would be getting compulsory manual lessons. Girls prefer a good stick shift, you should know that :smt002

[lord flashheart]

lol i just worry about hurting the trans doing that tho.
oh i know. i tryed teaching her 5 or 6 times with my truck.
idk im thinking of trading in the car (cuz its a lemon) for something with a stick.