Motor problems with 05 GT need feedback

[Dead91silvia]

Ok, so a friend was asking me if I could find out if what the mechanic is telling him is true...

His mom has a 2005 GT with just under 100K. They took it in for a timing belt and it ran like it should. Nothing abnormal at all. The mechanics then put it back together and then said it had no compression so they pulled the motor out. Then my friend told them they put the belt on wrong to start and they argued and found out the belt was on wrong...

So they install the belt on right his dad goes and picked up the car. On the freeway, the check engine light comes on. 2 days later, one of the idler pulleys explodes and takes out the new belt and breaks the timing cover as well. They tow it back to the shop...

They install a new belt and assorted parts. Car still eats gas, has a check engine light (he didnt know the code, but it said missfire, all cly), and "runs like shit". The shop tells them it needs valve guide's, valves, and also has bad head gaskets. They tell they this is normal and has nothing to do with any of the work they did... I think they possibly jacked the valves when they had the belt on wrong and then also when the second one died...

I call BS on this! What I would like to know is if the newer turbo GT's have a HG problem and or valve problems from people that know these cars. I think they are full of crap. Last I knew, the only motor that had a bad HG problem was car's like mine 97-99 2.5's. Let me know if these guys are right for full of crap...

[httrdd]

I would say the belt being put on wrong messed up the timing. And since they did the belt job did they put on new idler pullies?

[Dead91silvia]

They said they did, but who knows... I show my customers their old parts, but they didnt....

[Dead91silvia]

Another thing we were maybe thinking too, was maybe they also got the belt off by a tooth or 2... I've never messed up a Subaru motor that bad. All my work has been good...

[Huffer]

Of course it's BS. They did shoddy work - are they a Subaru dealership or an independent garage?
If the timing belt is off, it'll run poorly. If the idler pulleys aren't installed correctly then that will cause more problems.

Bar the turbo, this is still an H4 engine.

[Dead91silvia]

I'm thinking the same thing as well... They are an independent shop and sadly, one my friend and I have recommended in the past. I wouldnt even pull this crap with my customers and I'm a tiny shop in comparison.. I messed up an alternator once and I took care of it ate the bill...

If I'm understanding this, no one has had problems like this and the valve thing and HG problems are BS...?

[elislider]

everything they have done from the original belt mis-install has caused the next problem, and the next. if they cant even put on a timing belt right then they dont deserve to call themselves subaru mechanics. that right there is enough to make them liable for ANYTHING that has happened to the engine since they agreed they put on the timing belt wrong (and its an interference engine like all the DOHC EJ engines are). regarding the idler, if they did a timing belt job they should have replaced all the idlers, or at the very least inspected them for condition. either that or they reinstalled an idler incorrectly. if the heads were not already damaged from the timing belt and compression check earlier, then the idler exploding and taking out the belt and covers would definitely ensure they were damaged.

get a REAL subaru mechanic on the scene or as a reliable source of information, and if this shop doesnt agree to buy you a new longblock and maybe even turbo (no telling what damage was caused by their shoddy work) then sue them for the cost for the dealership to do it all over again, plus the original cost of repairs, plus cost to rent a car for the entire time the car has been out of commission and the time it will be to get it back on the road

this shop you are talking about clearly doesnt want to take responsibility, and is either freaking out because they know they did something wrong and is trying to shove the blame onto something else or is really just stupid and trying to screw you. either way dont let them. get an independent pro on the case and sue them if they refuse to resolve the situation

[Dead91silvia]

Wheres the "like" button?! haha!

I agree with all of that.

My buddy is just trying to figure out things for his dad. This burns me since his dad is also a good friend on mine. The owner of the shop was also a friend, but I think has since lost something and is now looking at numbers, rather then people...

I'll keep you all updated on what happens with this...

[StatGSR]

yea im 100% positive that the shop killed that motor.

[Dead91silvia]

Since they had the turbo off, his dad took it in and decided that they would have it rebuilt for good measure. The turbo shop said their was NOTHING wrong with the turbo and said if they wanted to, they should do a tune up on it for $200, but it didnt really even need it... His dad had it done just to cover his base's....

Last thing I heard, they are going to charge him $2500 for the repair since they said the motor failure was not there fault...

[elislider]

Last thing I heard, they are going to charge him $2500 for the repair since they said the motor failure was not there fault...
clearly they have their heads up their asses. get a subaru dealership on the phone and ask them what problems would be caused by installing the timing belt wrong and then cranking the engine (their answer will be destruction of the valves and various other possible problems). record that conversation or just go to this other shop and do it over speakerphone. if they dont agree, take them to court and sue for $10k

[chuckthefuk]

EJ25* motors are INTERFERENCE engine designs.. if timing was way off the pistons would slam into the valves.. this would bend the valves/destroy the valve guides...

If the idler pulleys are installed incorrectly then two things happen... uneven weighted rotating mass causes extreme vibration and destroys the bearings / sends shock down the timing belt / block.

There is no way that this motor has a blown head gasket even if the timing was off... I call Shinanangins!!

Law suit!
-Chuck

[Dead91silvia]

So I just talked to my buddy...

The shop sent the heads in and all the intake valves were bent. They said they will cover the repair on the valves, but not the valve guilds. They said they were already bad. Both of us call BS on that and he said they are not paying to fix it. More info to come...

[chuckthefuk]

hahahhahah valve guides worn @ less then 100,000... Shinanigans!!!!

Try telling that to my EJ22E @ 380,000 km
-Chuck

[Zedhead]

I just rebuilt the heads on My 200K mile NA Ej25D. The shop that did the heads quoted Me a beginning price, then stated, "If the GUIDES are all right, which they usually are" They called the next day, no need for guides. The Machinist (who's done hundreds of subie heads) told Me that it's rare for a subie guide to fail, UNLESS the Timing Belt Fails at highway speeds. Luckily, My Idler let loose at idle. Only 1 bent valve!


ANY competent mechanic should know how to read a warning. EVERY EJ25 manual has them describing the effects of not having a belt/cams timed properly.

They prolly KNOW they screwed up, and will fight tooth and nail to cover up Their incompetence.

[ericem]

Just reading this thread makes me go crazy! He would have been better off taking it to the dealership. As much as a dealership can be expensive, atleast you know they have worked on a vehicle like yours multiple times!

[Zedhead]

What was the outcome???

[ouch1011]

Every Subaru engine made since 96 is interference. The clearance is so tight that not only can there be interference between the valve and piston, but there can be interference between the intake and exhaust valves.

The valve guide wear is directly as a result of the bent valves. Think about it, if the valve stem is bent (i.e. bent valves) it is going to grind in the valve guide 1000s of times per minute, so it will cause them to wear and fail. The shop knows this, they are just trying to avoid their financial responsibility, because replacing valve guides is labor intensive (i.e. not cheap)

[elislider]

any update on this? i wanna know if justice was served

[lord flashheart]

please tell me you took it to a different shop and got a second opinion.. these guys sound like idiots..

[Dead91silvia]

Completely forgot to do an update...

The shop took care of everything. They didnt get a bill in the end... The shop got work from there machine shop that all the damage was from the T-belt being off... They are now looking to replace the turbo, I guess they say the stock ones are crap and Subaru has even stopped selling that part number. So they are going to do that next...

So yeah, their GT is back on the road and they didnt have to pay anymore then what just having a timing belt done would cost, and thats all it went in for in the first place...

[elislider]

good! glad to hear someone got the right idea

[Dead91silvia]

Its nice when things work out in the end, even if they sometimes take forever..

[ouch1011]

I know this is a super old thread now, but the 08+ WRX turbo (VF52 I believe) is a very good bolt-on upgrade for the LGT.