Bad noises from the clutch/transmission: video inside

[anothernord]

Just recently, I've been getting an awful clopping/grinding noise from the transmission area of my 97' Outback. The noise is present whenever the car is moving, or if the clutch is engaged at idle while in neutral. It sounds like there's a bearing that's going out, or just a very loud gear noise.

It disappears completely when the clutch is pushed in, but resumes whenever the car is moving, whether coasting in neutral with the clutch engaged, or disengaged. Also, the "clopping" increases frequency when, for example, the car is coasting, with the clutch disengaged, and I put it into 2nd gear, and the synchronizer matches the speeds of the two shafts in the transmission. This leads me to believe that the problem lies somewhere along the input shaft of the transmission.

I've been getting noises from the clutch while it is engaged for a while now, ever since I had an incident in the mountains last year where I got stuck in a snow bank, and was repeatedly going from reverse to first gear to try and rock the car out, causing the clutch to smoke in the process. Since then, the there has always been a "whirring" sound when the clutch is engaged. Only after I came home from a 20 mile drive on country roads did the more severe, "clopping" noise come about that I can hear when the car is moving.

Any ideas as to what could be causing this would be appreciated. Thanks.


Here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40xGRPRisS0

[ericem]

I have a similar noise too! But it sounds fine when driving etc. Definitely not loud enough that I can hear it using a camera to record either.

[Huffer]

Sounds like the throwout bearing is going...

Best to replace clutch and t/o bearing...use the TSK1 kit for the snout repair if you're replacing the T/O bearing.

[ShadowGT]

Throw out bearing jittering when it engages the pressure plate. Inner core on the TOB is wearing out bouncing on the input spline. Fork pushes the TO into the pressure plate. Uneven engagement. Or a guide spring is bad on the fork. Eitherway.. if the clutch is making an awful noise when it engages the pressure plate, it's the throw out bearing.

[anothernord]

The TOB is certainly a possibly culprit, but the sound is specifically present whenever the transmission is spinning. It doesn't matter if the clutch is in or out, the noise is still there, especially if I accelerate.

For example, with the clutch in, transmission in neutral, coasting to a stop, the noise will get progressively slower as I come to a stop, then once the car is stopped, the noise stops, until I let out the clutch and the engine spins the transmission.

Edit: The noise present in the video is when the clutch is let out.

[ShadowGT]

The TOB is certainly a possibly culprit, but the sound is specifically present whenever the transmission is spinning. It doesn't matter if the clutch is in or out, the noise is still there, especially if I accelerate.

For example, with the clutch in, transmission in neutral, coasting to a stop, the noise will get progressively slower as I come to a stop, then once the car is stopped, the noise stops, until I let out the clutch and the engine spins the transmission.

Edit: The noise present in the video is when the clutch is let out.

Yeah because the TOB is vibrating on the input spline. I could be in neutral and hear my car chattering and it wouldn't go away until I slightly put the clutch in. Just enough to budge the fork to put a little pressure on the TOB against the Pressure plate to keep it from rattling.

The core / the center axis piece that fits around the input spline on the transmission for the TOB was completely worn and burned away. So I figured the TOB was just literally just vibrating and rattling around on the clutch fork.

You could tell something like that was going on because there was an odd wear in pattern on the pressure plate too.

[anothernord]

Ok so because the TOB sits on the input spline, any time the input spline is moving, the noise is generated. Is that correct?

[Huffer]

Yup..unless it's making noise from general vibrations

[anothernord]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm taking it to our local Subie shop to get a quote and another opinion and I'll report back.

[ShadowGT]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm taking it to our local Subie shop to get a quote and another opinion and I'll report back.

Change it the clutch disk, TOB, pressure plate yourself and save yourself about a billion dollars on labor fees.

I need to find that picture of my TOB I took and posted up here last month. The center hub was literally destroyed where it contacts the input spline.

[anothernord]

Shop said it was probably the TOB. I'm gonna order a new clutch kit that will not only hold more power, but also not make horrible noises.

Whether or not I'll be doing the work myself remains to be determined. If I do change it myself, I'll definitely just pull the engine.

[ouch1011]

Throw out bearing wouldn't change the noise based on vehicle movement.

I suspect a problem internal to the trans. Anytime the vehicle is moving (clutch engaged or not, regardless of gear), or the trans is in neutral with the clutch engaged, all the gears in the trans move. (except for the diff, that only only moves when the vehicle does). Have you drained the transmission fluid?

[ericem]

Shop said it was probably the TOB. I'm gonna order a new clutch kit that will not only hold more power, but also not make horrible noises.

Whether or not I'll be doing the work myself remains to be determined. If I do change it myself, I'll definitely just pull the engine.

Ive done clutch jobs and recently a flexplate haha by just pulling the engine forward:

undoing the rad, exhaust manifold or dp depending if turbo or not, undoing certain wires that can't reach and the fuel lines and just simply pulling the engine forward with a hoist and not undoing the p/s pump and a/c since the lines are long enough and leave you with plenty of room to work!

I think it's the easiest way IMO. Unless you like undoing your power steering and a/c.

[anothernord]

Drained the transmission fluid, only some small shavings on the drain plug.

[anothernord]

Throw out bearing wouldn't change the noise based on vehicle movement.

I suspect a problem internal to the trans. Anytime the vehicle is moving (clutch engaged or not, regardless of gear), or the trans is in neutral with the clutch engaged, all the gears in the trans move. (except for the diff, that only only moves when the vehicle does). Have you drained the transmission fluid?

I'm starting to agree with this, I have sourced a replacement gearbox for only $250, so if that's the case, I'll be good.

[02_Legacy]

So I re-read your post again becasue I wanted to figure out if it was the TOB or the transmission. And the conclusion that I came to is it has to be the tranny. What Shadow is saying is that the noise is the TOB moving back and forth on the input shaft. If this was the case it could change with different speeds but would go away no matter what when the clutch pedal was pushed in becuase it would be forced against the pressure plate, thus causing it to not be able to move.
On the other hand if the noise remains constant weather the clutch is pushed or not, but still changes with speed it must be something inside the transmission. And based on your video on the input side. When you are stopped with the clutch pedal pushed in there is no sound. When you let it out the sound starts because the input shaft starts moving. Now the way to rule out the TOB is to start moving, leave the tranny in gear and push in the clutch. If the noise continues it has to be the tranny beause the TOB cannot move but the input shaft of the tranny is still moving.
I realize that is really long winded but I just wanted it explained better if not for anyone else at least for myself.

[anothernord]

I have a Exedy Stage 1 Street clutch on the way, once I pull the engine, I'll be able to know for sure..

[Huffer]

Buy the TSK1 throw out bearing kit. Don't use the Exedy one...

[anothernord]

Can I make that call after I inspect the condition of my input shaft snout? Or will it definitely be trashed? The gearbox only has about 90k on it.

[Huffer]

Do it anyway - it's really good insurance and actually improves your clutch engagement. It'll protect the input shaft on hard shifts etc.

[ouch1011]

If I had it all to do over again, I'd just get the repair sleeve and matching TOB and do that the 1st time. The input shaft on my trans looked fine, but I still get clutch chatter on engagement. But I skipped it because this was only a temporary solution anyway (it will either get trashed by the EJ257 when I swap that in, or get replaced by a 6mt if it does last)

[anothernord]

And the verdict:...

Transmission!

I pulled the engine and turned the input shaft by hand, and I could definately feel it was not turning smoothly. I found a used replacement for $250 locally and put that in along with a new Exedy Stage 1 clutch. The snout on the new gearbox was fine, and I was already tight on cash, so I didn't get to do the TSK1 kit, but the engagement feels perfect with no chatter. I highly recommend this clutch; the pedal is no stiffer than stock, but the engagement is tighter and it feels awesome!

[02_Legacy]

And the verdict:...

Transmission!
See what did I tell ya :wink: lol

I'm glad you got it figured out and can get your subie back on the road.
Is this going to push the twin-charge( :twisted: ) project back at all?
for some reason i always feel the need to put that smilie after the word 'twin-charge' lol

[anothernord]

Yeah, I was going to install all the twin charging stuff yesterday, but I ended up going skiing. This weekend, I'll put it all in.

And yes, the evil smilie is fitting for such a maniacal build.