2001 LGT 5MT: A slow steady downward spiral...

[beastman]

I've had the car for one year now. Which means it's inspection time. Which means I need to make repair decisions. So any feedback would be great. I will be as chronological as possible.

FEB 2010: PURCHASED from a dealership with 140,000 miles. Test drove it twice. Loved it.

MARCH 2010: oil light comes on. Check oil. Dry dipstick. Put in 2qts, maybe more. Car seems to be running fine regardless.

SUMMER 2010: Started getting intermittent CELs. Sometimes for misfire (when stopped at lights), sometimes for catalyst inefficiency...
I decided at some point to change my ignition coil, plugs, and wires. Lots of ash deposits on my plugs. Car runs better for a bit. But not long before the CEL comes back. Some advice was given to me here: http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19122

SEPT 2010: Moved into the city, haven't been driving the car much.

JAN 2011: Decided to try and remove the timing belt cover based on some suggestion my belt might be off by a tooth. Never got the cover off due to lack of tools and freezing temps. Car still running horrible.

FEB 2011: Brought the car to my buddy who's a mechanic with a garage full of tools. We decided it was necessary to get new o2 sensors. And since the cat seemed to be a problem, we removed it, hoping the car would run better without a clogged cat. In it's place is a legit straight pipe with two bungs for the sensors. We backed the sensors out with non-foulers to avoid o2 codes. Car STILL runs like shit. CEL came back with the "misfire in cylinder 4" code again. No o2 or cat codes present.

He said: Could be rings. Could be Valve seat?
Didn't do a compression test, he doesn't have the tool for it.
Headgasket was replaced, somehow he could tell.
I don't think the crank pulley is causing the problem. I did try to loosen it, to no avail. It is definitely not loose as someone suggested.

I'm on the fence between spending the time/money on this car, or just saying fcuk it and finance a 08+ impreza hatch. Problem is, I love this car. It's the only black LGT wagon in 5MT I've seen. It's lowered and handles great. Plus it's PAID OFF. Ugh.

Any help would be great.

[Reason]

Im having the same issue, bad cats fouled o2. I suspected the rings and chuck thinks so too. I have a new cat and o2s. I don't want to run them but have to, my.inspection was up in July.... yes july of 2010. I need to get this passed and plan a block swap or new rings.

[Huffer]

Do a compression test - that will tell you if the cylinder is leaking/allowing gasses to escape resulting in poor running and fouled plugs.

How do the plugs look now etc?

Don't finance something when your car is paid off and the repair will be less than your 1st year of owning a new car. Plus, it's yours. You customized it and built it. The fix will be easier than you think and it allows you to do some fun upgrades if you want.

[beastman]

Do a compression test - that will tell you if the cylinder is leaking/allowing gasses to escape resulting in poor running and fouled plugs.

How do the plugs look now etc?

Don't finance something when your car is paid off and the repair will be less than your 1st year of owning a new car. Plus, it's yours. You customized it and built it. The fix will be easier than you think and it allows you to do some fun upgrades if you want.

I'm going away for a week, will be pulling the plugs again when I get back.

Easier repair than I think? I don't have an engine hoist. Is piston rings/valves possible without pulling the motor?

[Grafton]

^ no rings require you to split the block and have the bore's honed

hell get new pistons for shits and giggles, move to all "a" sized pistons and have the bores honed out to the proper specs for the best ptw clearance possible on a used block

[Custom Trendz Inc.]

i had a cyl 4 misfire and it ended up being a burned valve(happens alot on cyl4.) Have a leak-down test down or a compression test. With compression test make sure you do it normally, and then put some oil in the cylinder and let it soak in, if its the same reading then its the valve, if its better then its rings.

Or your valve spacing could have gotten messed up. Mine sure was, and thats why the valve just burned. It started of slowly(just at light) and then turned into CONSTANT misfiring until i replaced the valve.

[Airgne]

I had the same problem. Turned out to be a burnt valve on number four cylinder. If you can rebuild with some upgrade.

[beastman]

I had the same problem. Turned out to be a burnt valve on number four cylinder. If you can rebuild with some upgrade.


i had a cyl 4 misfire and it ended up being a burned valve(happens alot on cyl4.) Have a leak-down test down or a compression test. With compression test make sure you do it normally, and then put some oil in the cylinder and let it soak in, if its the same reading then its the valve, if its better then its rings.

Or your valve spacing could have gotten messed up. Mine sure was, and thats why the valve just burned. It started of slowly(just at light) and then turned into CONSTANT misfiring until i replaced the valve.

Am I going to have to pull the motor to replace the valve(s)?

[Airgne]

yes the engine has to come out. it is almost impossible to remove the head with the engine in the car. pull it get some good pistons, headgaksets, and rebuild the heads(get 2000/1000 grind cams).

[beastman]

can anyone give me an approximate cost to get this done at a shop?

I do not have the means to pull my motor.

[Huffer]

do the compression test first - you can buy or rent a tool from Autozone that will do this. You take the sparkplug out, put the tool in, and turn the crankshaft. Note the readout for each cylinder.

But for a shop to do the following:
Engine removal, disassembly of the heads, replacement piston rings, *possible* machine heads flat, install new valves and valve springs, valve cover gaskets, reassemble heads, reinstall heads onto block w/ new gaskets, new timing belt, new tensioner for timing belt, new water pump, oil pump, oil seperator plate, new thermostat, replace fluids...

I would say around $3000 and I'm being conservative. Some shops will be lower, some will be higher. I would go to a shop that deals with Subaru maintenance more as you're taking apart an engine. Your final bill will be dependent on if you can do some of the labor yourself and what kinds of replacement parts you use. My advice is to use all OEM parts where possible.

[beastman]

Were you including parts in there? That's half of what I paid for the vehicle, but I think you're right. That's is why I'm not ruling out the purchase of a new vehicle. $3000 is a solid down payment, and if I could get $3000 for my car, that's a big dent in the price of an impreza hatch.

This sucks. I can't believe I'm missing my 99 civic ex right now. It cost me $0.00

[Huffer]

Yes, I was including parts. Anything that involves taking the heads off and timing belt items is expensive but it's good insurance. If you DO have a burnt valve then you should have it repaired regardless. I wouldn't pay $3000 for a poorly running car, no matter what the year.

You never mentioned the year or model of your car, only that it's a black LGT wagon w/ 5MT. This is where using your profile and signature line helps greatly.

[Custom Trendz Inc.]

you dont have to take the engine out at all! What i did was just take off radiator, fans, windshield washer, batt, intake, then you just reach in with a angled 10mm wrench, or whatever wrench you can fit in there(its really tight in there) and start taking off the valve cover. Make sure you drained antifreeze and oil before hand. Make sure your timing components are also off(make sure to read up on how to properly do it if its DOHC.) After valve cover is off you take off the head(SOHC) but in DOHC you have to take the cams out and all the valves. After that is done, loosen headbolts and make sure to pull them out as close to the frame rail as possible, then just lift the head out of there. Then you can take the head to a shop to get rebuilt, or do it yourself. Also, make sure to take off EVERYTHING off the head so you can remove it.

dont listen to anyone who says to pull the engine, ive changed head gaskets, put in new valves, all without even lifting up the engine(some people loosen the engine mounts and jack up the engine, you get about 2-3 inches more space.) And the funny thing is, me and my dad have never even worked on a car engine, or done any kind of automotive work like this. It took me about a week of on/off working on the car to get the head off, new valves put in, and while i was at it i re-shimmed the valves and reseated the valves. e-mail gkolyagin@gmail.com for fast responces if you need my help(i have email on my phone so i will reply faster versus going on this thread or PMing me.)

price is not very expensive if you know its just a burnt valve. Timing component kit is about 400 bucks if you want to replace everything. Water pump is about 70 bucks, then you also want to get some seals redone and the head gaskets done. I heard its 50 bucks a HG at the dealership but i personally bought a felpro kit for 180 bucks with all the seals you will ever need and did that when i did my head gaskets. if you do it yourself it should be less then $1000 bucks but i personally think 1000 bucks sounds to high even.

I have rebuilt my heads, did headgaskets, did timing belt/component/oil pump o-ring/water pump, then took it apart to do a burnt valve replacement and only spent about 800 bucks in total doing that.

dont let anyone fool you into thinking you have to drop anywhere close to 3000 dollars to fix the car. Subies are easy to work on in my opinion all you need is to get tools which can be rented, and parts which can be bought online for cheap.

[Yamazaki]

You never mentioned the year or model of your car, only that it's a black LGT wagon w/ 5MT. This is where using your profile and signature line helps greatly.
In the title.

[jey]

Yeah this idea that you must remove the engine to remove the heads on a SOHC EJ25 is just not true. I just did it without removing the block on a 2nd gen, and I would think the 3rd gen would have more room. It was way easier than anyone made it out to be. Take the heads to a good machine shop and it shouldn't be too bad - I just got quoted $540 to replace 13 bent valves, so it should be less than that if your issue is a valve problem. Do spend the money to freshen everything up everything you have to dismantle though:
- new water pump and gasket
- timing belt
- all idler pulleys for the timing belt
- head gasket, as well as all intake/exhaust gaskets

But anyway, do the compression test!! It's literally a $30 tool at Autozone, and you can even rent one for free!

[beastman]

Compression test will be next. Will update after I get those results.


i had a cyl 4 misfire and it ended up being a burned valve(happens alot on cyl4.) Have a leak-down test down or a compression test. With compression test make sure you do it normally, and then put some oil in the cylinder and let it soak in, if its the same reading then its the valve, if its better then its rings.

How do I put oil in the cylinder? Sorry if I sound like an idiot.

[Custom Trendz Inc.]

you can use some kind of hose to put oil in the cylinder. I had a container from 4-in-1 oil that had a long telescopic spout so i used that. Anyway you could really mcgyver it, it will work haha.

i bought all my testing tools at harbor freight, and then returned them so i got my money back.

[beastman]

I should have been more specific. Where do I put the oil to get it "in the cylinder"?

[02_Legacy]

remove the plugs and stick a hose into the plug hole. After you put the oil into the cylinder crank the engine a few times (make sure it doesn't start, I would pull all the plugs) to distribute the oil, then do the compression check.

[beastman]

How much oil should I put in there?

Also. If my head gasket is not the issue, is it necessary to have the head machined after I remove it?

[Huffer]

You NEVER reuse a head gasket. You may not need to machine the head, but get it checked for flatness.

[beastman]

I was planning on cleaning off all the residue and replacing the HG. Just wondering if machining is a must.

[MikeyMeyagi]

no machining is not a must if the head is flat and the surface is good.

[Custom Trendz Inc.]

if you never overheated then chances are your surfaces are as flat as they will ever be. But if it ever overheated it might of been warped.

[beastman]

Anyone think this is a good alternative to rebuilding/machining my head?

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Cylinder-Head-Remanufactured-Spartan-ATK-Engines_99980515-P_246_R|GRP60012_1272844610___#