help, misfire UPDATE

[jewbaru]

so, info:

2004 legacy 2.5 35th aniversary edition
70500miles

history
i did the headgasket, water pump, valve seals, fuel injector seals, valve cover seals, intake manifold seals, exhaust seals, headers, plugs, and a new muffler about 7k miles ago.

recently, with no prior problems, the oil oil light came on and she was down almost three quarts and the coolant res. tank was almost empty.

filled oil, and filled coolant to max levels

car doesnt seem to be burning anything, no sweet smell of coolant, and no smoke, so its not burning oil, least not in any noticeable amounts.

today, i was going about 75 and decided to get on her, she got up to a 100 and quit, wouldnt go any faster, i heard a faint clicking noise (sounded like plugs) got off of her immediatly and slowed back down and got off the highway next to my house, as i slowed down and pulled off the offramp the check engine light started to blink and i now have a major misfire somewhere. but it shuts off when i get off the gas. its not throwing a code, it just flashes when i accelerate, nothing at idle, doesnt start to flash when im in park until i get over 2-2.5 grand

i looked under the car and everywhere, block is dry but the coolant hose that comes off the water pump looks like fluid sprayed out of the pump side.

car feels like it has absolutely no power

someone please help.. im realllly dreading to hear someone say head gasket or bad rings... i spent so much time and was maticulous with my work, i made sure everything was clean and to their proper torque specs.. i even did the rediculous torque pattern for all the head bolts..

could i have a burnt valve?

i had a problem VERY similar to this when i first bought the car, and it was bad plugs

but i just put new ones in when i did the HG swap..


im going to attempt to get to my shop down the street tomorrow and start tearing some of the simple stuff apart to inspect...


words of advice? comments? thoughts? statments? storys? help? lol

thanks guys, anything is appreciated :)

:smt033 only thing keeping me from flippin out right now haha

[chuckthefuk]

The lack of oil and coolant worries me..

1) Pull the plugs and check if theres oil on them.
2) Have you changed your fuel filter?
3) Coilpack?

-Chuck

[jewbaru]

Negitive on both

[jewbaru]

And yes. It worries me too. My girlfriend had been driving my car for almost 2 months. She drives really conservatively so I kno she wasn't beat on.

I just really don't kno where it could b going. Really doesn't smell at all. And there is no smoke what so ever

[chuckthefuk]

Change the fuel filter also when you did all your work did you happen to disconnect the fuel filter or reinstall it the wrong way?

Are you sure your plugs and wires are correct?

-Chuck

[Huffer]

Did you check fluid levels AFTER this current issue of flashing CEL and no power?
Did you try to pull any stored codes from the ECU?

[jewbaru]

Replaced plugs and wires. No more Misfire. One plug however was bent. The tip was in contact with the electrode and black. All the other plugs were burned white. Unfortunately I didn't notice the bent plug till after I wss done. So I do no knobwhich cylinder it came out of.

I hear a real quiet tick at idle which sounds like it could b the piston hitting hittin the plug. But goes away with a little throttle. Nothing else is wrong. She is back to how she was a few days ago. ..

Confused. It couldn't have skipped a tooth could it?

[chuckthefuk]

Words of wisdom. GAP your plugs. A gaping tool is just a piece of metal with different thickness around it and some simple taps and its gaped.

If your piston was hitting a valve it would be constant and noticeable.

But still.. where did all your fluids go?

[jewbaru]

Still havent figured that out.. Plugs weren't saturated that bad

[jewbaru]

So the answers in.. Broken piston ring and cylinder

[chuckthefuk]

what?

[Dead91silvia]

How the hell did you get a broke piston ring in 70K?! And how do you know???

[jewbaru]

sorry, piston and piston ring, not the cylinder lol..

idk how the hell it happened but cylinder 4 is fucked

we stuck a boroscope in there today and saw a good inch of the piston ring stuck to the top of the piston head, and a small gap on the edge of the piston that looked like someone hit it on the top edge with a hammer, its like dented or missing or broken idfk

so just from what ive seen, i need to buy pistons..

nows the time to upgrade everything.

so here it goes, i need recomendations on what i should get to do a rebuild, as you guys are reading this, ill be doing my own research as i go along. im just throwing this out there today to help get the ball rolling on some of my options.

if i do a rebuild, im at least going to have to..

sleve the cylinder if damage is bad enough

bearings
pistons
valves
springs
cams
gaskets
injectors
oil pump

port and polish heads?
connecting rods?
crank?

missing any large components?

my other option would be to buy a low milage motor, pref something thats going to be quicker and id love to do a 5mt swap...

couple thousand to spend..

hit me with your ideas

[chuckthefuk]

couple thousand to spend..

For $2500 CAN you can score Version 4 swaps.. I wonder how cheap you can get them in your area for..

That being said the easier method is to buy a JDM EJ25 (less then 70k on them) and just reuse your intake manifold and sensors.

-Chuck

[Huffer]

Couple thousand... maybe if you can find a 02-03 WRX with rear end damage you could possibly get away with a turbo swap (if you do all the labor yourself, including the harness). Parting out the rest of the WRX might net you back $500-$1000.

[jewbaru]

chuck, where do i get that jdm ej 25? and how much?

[jewbaru]

and huffer, are the trannys the same?

[chuckthefuk]

In my area I have 5 engine importers within a 20 minute drive. All of them have good and bad reviews.. Some don't know what there selling.. some lie.. some are honest.

A good deal on a SOHC EJ25 from a BE with the coilpack behind the intake manifold goes for around $750-1000 CAN. Some places charge $1500 but thats just a rip off.

And I am pretty sure the WRX 5MT is a 3.5*.1:1 and the rear diff is 3.9.. But i may be mistaken.. i am at work and have little time to research.

You can swap in a 00-01 RS 4.11 trans w/ rear diff that has LSD and thats a pretty peppy combo.

-Chuck

[jewbaru]

Hmm. Sounds like a rebuild might b cheaper

[jewbaru]

1500 would b perfect. My parents want me to have a shop do the work. So I'm thinking, pull the motor and the heads myself. Send the heads out to b serviced and get new cams and valves etc put in. And send the block out to get honed and have new pistons put in.

Now can I run a light weight piston to get more horsepower. Or run a piston that might boost my compression where I'll b upgrading my cams? I kno I'll have to get new injectors. What else would go along with performance pistons? Would u need a new crank or connecting rods?

[jewbaru]

bump?

[chuckthefuk]

Talk to Grafton if you want to know about Hi-Comp EJ motors.

If I were you pull the heads off check if the valves are damaged.. If they are not find a replacement block and get back on the road asap.

I don't see the cost savings to have your motor rebuilt compared to a used Japanese engine.

-Chuck

[jewbaru]

where should i look for decent pistons or a rebuild kit? i think i might go with delta for my cams, possibly a regrind. now, i think this might be a silly question, but if i change my cams around, ill need to change my injectors and tune correct?

[chuckthefuk]

depends on how aggressive the grind is.. A mild grind shouldn't need a tune but that being said installing intake and exhaust needs a tune for optimal/efficient gains.

If your going to a machine shop they can supply the rebuild kit. If not you can get it from the dealer or subarugenuineparts.com

Any company can make you custom pistons but without a true reason for upgrading its just a waste of money.

-Chuck

[jewbaru]

so, that being said, it sounds like a stock engine can handle a grind.. so i should find a machine shop to put in rebuild kit to replace the damaged parts and spend some money on upgradeing the top in with a stage one or two cam and a valve job because mine seem to make a quiet tick and always have since i bought the car

for a daily driver im leaning toward stage one, does that sound about right?

should i upgrade my injectors with that?

i already have headers and a axle back exhaust and im planning on making a custom intake setup

and think its worth it to do a regrind, or just purchase new cams?

sorry for all the questions guys. all my research is being done on a iPhone, so its a slow process. unfortunatly my lap top is with geeksquad

[chuckthefuk]

Read this.... ALL OF IT... then think about your options..

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t71639- ... -work.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t71639-engine-building-ej251-sti-rods-pistons-head-work.html)

If you have no tune then why put bigger injectors in?

[jewbaru]

ok, so his engine is the EJ25I or EJ251, either way, mine is the EJ25. will STi pistons and rods go into my car? and if they will, what is the actual difference between those and what i have other then they wont be FUBAR

[jewbaru]

and if i get the super tech valves from http://www.importperformanceparts.net/
and a delta regrind, i should increase my injector size tho correct?

requiring a tune right?

[chuckthefuk]

Check your Strut Tower ID badge. Does it say EJ251 if so then yes that build on RS25 is the same engine as yours.

If your not going to tune then there is no point in having bigger injectors

-chuck

[jewbaru]

lol, i understand about the injectors and tuning, but do you think it should be done if im adding STi pistons and cams? or can i get away with upgrading that in the future?

and i noticed on his thread that half way through he starts talking about adding a turbo. i plan on keeping it N/A all the way, what gains will i see with just the pistons and cams if im not doing a turbo?

are the pistons actually creating a high compression, or are they just lighter?

[Huffer]

Dude. SLOW DOWN.

If you're adding street cams you do NOT need a retune, nor do you need a more powerful fuel pump, injectors or rising fuel pressure system.
You don't need custom pistons. You don't need custom valves - new OEM ones are fine.

Based on your last three posts, I can see about $6-7000 in parts and labor already. Cams alone will set you back a few hundred.

I suggest rethinking your angle, and reading some more. Chuck et al will eventually get tired of answering your questions when you clearly do not know what you're getting into. If you don't know how pistons affect compression levels in relation to the cylinder, you really shouldn't be contemplating this kind of build.

[chuckthefuk]

:wink:

[jewbaru]

well, i was planing on pullin the motor and heads myself and sending them to a machine shop. but i need new pistons, so i would like to do a nice rebuild on the engine, new pistons, rods, etc. im just trying to find out if STi pistons will fit right into my block as a replacement, or if im going to need to drastically change everything and if they do, is there a difference over stock?

and i am planning on adding cams, i have about $1400 myself plus the money my parents are chipping in

so i have myself have a little bit to play with and im calling a shop by this afternoon to schedule my stuff. so im just kinda rushed for some answers.

and chuck, huffer, i thank you very much for all your answers. i wish i had the knowledge some of you guys have and im trying, but there is soo much stuff to read all at once it gets a little confusing because a lot of builds go off in different directions

if one of you want to help me get a small list together of things i should get done and buy ill toss you a little money

im looking for more torque and a little more HP, i want to get all i can out of a car thats a hardcore daily driver. ill stress the hardcore part considering a blew out a piston ring at 70k. i do not plan on adding a turbo and i already have a intake, and exhaust along with a lightened crank pully

i just want to upgrade from stock.. :-/ lol

[jewbaru]

PM if interested lol

[jewbaru]

and ive been told STi pistons will actually give me lower compression?

[Huffer]

im looking for more torque and a little more HP, i want to get all i can out of a car thats a hardcore daily driver. ill stress the hardcore part considering a blew out a piston ring at 70k. i do not plan on adding a turbo and i already have a intake, and exhaust along with a lightened crank pully

i just want to upgrade from stock.. :-/ lol

With your budget, just get the street grind cams from Delta Cam, install new valve springs and shims, get your heads machined and install a slightly thinner headgasket when you install (Cometic Gaskets make these). This will raise your compression ratio without messing with pistons (if you have to replace just use stock ones, and new piston rings) and will give you a lively engine.

Pocket the rest of your money, because you will need to do essentially a whole timing belt service when you reinstall everything.

[chuckthefuk]

OK this ends right now..

Even if you had $2500 to spend the basic cost of a rebuild is like this

Heads = $600 for a rebuild
Block = $600-900 for a rebuild.

Thats already over $1200 and that does not include upgrades.

Your goal is unrealistic. Your dipping into your parents funds to have a daily driver beast..

IMHO arp head struds, upgraded head gasket, mild cams and a rebuild kit with OE pistons.

If the machine shop is trust worthy they will honor their work if shit hits the fan.

I am done with this thread I got work to do..

-Chuck

[jewbaru]

please dont b mad chuck lol. i really appreciate your help man.

do you recommend decking the head?

[jewbaru]

and huffer, i just did a timing belt service 7k miles ago when i did the head gaskets

[Huffer]

Doesnt matter, youre not supposed to reuse the timing belt and tensioner if you take it off, just like reusing gaskets.

You dont have to deck the heads if they're flat.

[jewbaru]

the pullys would be fine tho correct? i was planning on doing the tensionser cuz i just reused it when i did the hgs and put a new belt on

but i should plan on the belt too hmm.. ok i can manage that. ill basically have a brand new engine by next week lol

[DarkPhoenix]

Doesnt matter, youre not supposed to reuse the timing belt and tensioner if you take it off, just like reusing gaskets.

You dont have to deck the heads if they're flat.

Why wouldn't you be able to reuse the tensioner or timing belt? According to the service manual it can be reused when the TB is done as long as there are no visible defects.

[Grafton]

the newer tensioners are apparently a royal pain to compress properly without a press and if you compress the new ones wrong you screw them up...

for that reason I am using the older style tensioner on my car

[jewbaru]

so, engine came out last night. came out really easy compared to last time :grin:
(maybe use some locktite on reassembly haha)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/21e71dad-1.jpg
my buddy helping me
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/685f3509-1.jpg

i left the heads on for the shop so there wouldnt be any confusion or missing parts so i still havent found out whats inside the cylinder head but there were some other issues that im going to need to attend to when shes back in my hands

as far as my belts, theyre complete junk,there were pretty dry when i put them on after my HG job cuz i didnt have the money for new accessory belts but now theres pieces missing

i believe this is due to the lightwieght crank pully

i asked josh when i purchased it, its a non-underdriven and it is supposed to work with stock belts. when i installed the belts, the other belt that powers the ac compressor rides up a little bit on the outside edge of the pully and has caused the paint to wear down. so im not sure if i should upgrade al my belts and pullys to match, or if new belts alone would fit properly

also, the pully seems to come in contact with the plactic timing case, the plastic was slightly worn around the hole.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/e926ff6a-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/c0437743-1.jpg

as far as my timing belt, i know i can reuse it, but this is out of the question for me this time.

one of the 10mm bolts that holds the rear timing cover case on backed itself out and destroyed my belt :smt011 thats what the locktite comment was refering to lmao, along with a few other smaller bolts :smt017

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/8cbfd356-1.jpg


when i pulled the motor this time, the torque converter came half way out with it..
and no, we didnt miss a bolt lol

i decided to remove it this time because we hadnt looked at it last time the engine came out and i believe it should be replaced.

ive never had a torque converter come out like this one, when i pulled the TC out, a shaft pulled out with it, with two line up tabs, and the inner tab of the smaller splinned shaft pulled out a little bit too???

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/torqueconverter-1.jpg

piece number 8 is what what was free floatin and pulled out with the torque converter, the two line up slots were stuck to the line up slots of the torque, just needed a screw driver to seperate the two and it slid back in..

and the inerts of the input shaft, the smaller of the two splinned pieces also came out about two inches, and it took a good push to get it to go back in..

is this a normal subaru thing or is something else wrong? lol

and as far as TC replacement, does anyone have any thoughts or comments on that? new, used, performance, stock, price, where to purchase?

[jewbaru]

and if it makes a difference, the tranny was in neutral when i pulled the engine

[chuckthefuk]

Did you remove your starter?

[jewbaru]

yes

[jewbaru]

what does that have to do with anything tho?

[jewbaru]

so no thoughts? is that piece supposed to slide in and out?

[chuckthefuk]

Sorry I am not a 4EAT guy maybe Huffer can chime in.

[jewbaru]

thats ok chuck. why did you ask if i removed the starter?

[chuckthefuk]

usually on 5MT/6MT the start holds the engine / trans together.. Theres a lock pin that has to be hammer out for the starter to be released and both sections are released.

[Huffer]

Sorry I am not a 4EAT guy maybe Huffer can chime in.

I've got nothing here, but AFAIK the TC should come out bolted to the engine. Not sure about Item #8 in the diagram above. I imagine that's the sleeve that goes over the equivalent of the 5MT's input shaft?

[jewbaru]

why would the TC come out with the engine? your supposed to unbolt the flywheel from the TC before removal, wouldnt that leave the TC in place in the bell housing?

[Huffer]

Again, not sure but here's my EJ25 DOHC from the 98 GT:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/03/DSCF3954-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/11/DSCF3955-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2008/11/DSCF3960-1.jpg

[jewbaru]

yea, thats what my TC looks like, cept it says J119 or something like that on there. that shaft that is sticking out of the tranny side of the TC is what was still stuck to the shaft inside the tranny, the piece with the two tabs cut out is what was stuck with that number 8 shaft inside the tranny

[jewbaru]

and i didnt know you were supposed to remove an engine from an auto tranny like that. isnt is always recommended to unbolt the TC from the flexplate?

[nomad666666]

even if you unbolt the torque converter they can stick to the pilot hole on the crank some times you have to pry them loose

[jewbaru]

So does anyone kno the answer to my question on wether or not I got a problem? Is that shaft (number 8) supposed to pull out at all?

[jewbaru]

It's the pump shaft I believe

[nomad666666]

Let me check and I will let you know

[jewbaru]

so another update.

got the word back from the engine shop and it wasnt the piston ring, it was an actual chunk of the piston. a good two inches of the top piston retaining wall completely broke and worked its way out of the exhaust valve

to my surprise there isnt any damage to the cylinder wall!

unfortunatly the engine is still there and we're going onto the end of the second week its been out.. they didnt open the engine till tuesday of this week, so i guess it just sat there all last week. hopefully, god willing, it should be back no later then wednesday of this coming week as long as parts come in on time.

cyliner 4 was the one with the damage, the guy at the shop said the cylinder next to it looked like it was going to go too

so all four pistons are getting replaced and they're starting the heads today

head studs are in, cams are in, i believe the pistons and valves are here, and were going with a felpro gasket set.

now my question to you guys is..

ive been looking into rallysportdirects intake spacers
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/GrimmSp ... 006-Legacy (http://www.rallysportdirect.com/GrimmSpeed-Phenolic-Thermal-Spacer-8mm-N-A-Subaru-Models-(inc-1999-2008-Impreza-2000-2006-Legacy))

would this and an STi HG be a good investment alone without all the other upgrades if im only doing cams?

[chuckthefuk]

Thermal spacers reduce intake temperature.. sure its good but its not a reliability concern like the head gaskets and studs.

Why go with OEM STi when you go with Cometic or other aftermarket sources?

[Huffer]

Intake spacers can be done at anytime. Forget them for now.

What's wrong with an OEM HG? Nothing, so stick with that. You don't want to have to worry about cooling ports etc not lining up because the gasket has different holes cut out or a slightly different layout.

[jewbaru]

Are the spacers actually functional. Or do they really not make a difference?

[Huffer]

They make a difference but not one you're going to notice much if you've gotten street cams.

[jewbaru]

Stage one grind classifys as street right?