legacy struts + sti springs and top hats

[Navi271]

I had Tein springs, they were a bit too low for me. And now I have this crazy idea. Found someone selling 2007 sti springs and top hats on Nasioc. Comparing the impreza springs I have at home to the other legacy springs I have, they have the exact same base to seat on the strut. All they need are the correct top hats to fit. So here's the plan:

JDM Legacy GT-B Bilstein Struts
2007 STI Springs
2007 STI Top Hats

According to this: https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18453 The 2007 sti top hats bolt up to a 95-99 legacy with no problem. Seems pretty straight forward to me...

Should I go for it? Has anyone here done something like this before? I know you shouldn't put springs that were not made for legacy struts together, but it could be a pretty cool hybrid if it all works out. I'm seriously thinking about doing this. I'm also on a limited budget to tho...

[chuckthefuk]

1) You may need the upper perch

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/04/stuff-1.jpg

2) I cant say for sure but I am not entirley convinced that the lower spring perch will seat the tapered sti spring.. Or maybe its not tapered.

3) Yes the top hat will fit

4) Yes the hybrid will technically work but using a miss matched spring with Bilsteins that were engineered to work with the proper supplied spring will shorten the life of the strut.

5) What kind of Tein's where you running S or H tech or other?

6) Why would you bother dropping in OEM sti springs when you can find better springs from a used take off. How could this possibly benefit you besides budget?

-Chuck

[Navi271]

Thanks for looking chuck.

1. Yes, I'm very sure I'll need to get those to make it work correctly.

2. Honestly, the 07 sti springs LOOK like they fit. I have no way to prove that they will. I do have a set of 04 wrx springs and I compared them to my Tein's and they have the same lower spring perch. The rear springs were the only ones tapered, only at the top of the spring. But this is just with 04 wrx springs, not the 07 sti springs I might buy. The 07's look like they are the same as the 04's according to pictures.

3. :smile:

4. Yeah, I am concerned about this, which was why I was wondering if anyone else actually tried something like this. Just thinking, but isn't this the same thing that would happen with installing lowering springs on the struts? Using lowering springs with struts that were not designed to work with the springs would also shorten the life of the strut too right?

5. They are Tein S-techs specifically rated/made for the Bilstein struts. Yes, I heard that s-techs are crap, but I've also heard that they're good. There's too much I heard this and I heard that about these springs. I personally liked them on my car, except for them being a bit too low for the roads around here. The bilstein's were stiff, the s-tech springs were a little stiffer than stock. They worked fine with autocross. Problem is I have no idea what a "good" lowering spring is supposed to feel like. These are the first aftermarket lowering springs I've ever bought. Sorry, this was a bit more than what you asked for.

6. Budget, convenience, and I've seen how an OEM sti suspension setup looks on fwa2000's car and it seems to be that perfect ride height I'm looking for. Not too low, but not too high. Plus handling improves compared to stock. I have a substantial improvement of handling compared to stock already thanks to just the bilstein struts tho.

[Navi271]

Yeah I think i'm gonna try it! I'm trying to find sellers on nasioc at the moment. With the sti springs, the ride height should be at about what a stock gt-b would be. I'm going for 04-07 sti springs. Right now I'm on stock legacy L springs, so the sti springs should be a big improvement.

[Huffer]

Stechs suck. Once you really get good at autox, you'll realize how bad they suck. Really. No-one competitive actually runs them, and even Tein themselves say the S-techs are for cosmetic lowering only. H-techs are better, they are a stiffer, progressive rate spring.

[Navi271]

I wasn't really planning on autoxing that much. But the s-tech springs were too low for me anyways. And I know now, after I bought the springs, that they are cosmetic lowering only. They are as soft as my stock L springs.

I'm getting this stuff for cheap. I found some good deals on nasioc.

05 sti springs
06 wrx F+R top hats, front spring perches

[Navi271]

Soooo....

This plan actually followed through today.
A friend and I took out the stock legacy L springs paired with jdm bilstein struts and took them apart. The struts are still working well, so we started with the fronts. The 05 sti springs fit normally on the strut, we had to use the wrx upper perches. They are much smaller than the legacy upper spring perches. Everything else with the front went normal, and the wrx top hats bolted right up.
Next we started on the rears. The sti rear springs are much shorter that I thought. There was no need to even compress the spring. They were almost too short. Once the rears were all together with the springs, they stayed seated properly. The wrx top hats were definitely needed for these springs, and they also bolt up no problem.

It looks like these were the springs I should have gotten in the beginning. The ride height seems about the same as a regular sti. Just a little lower than 2nd gen legacy gt height. The springs are pretty stiff too. Just for a comparison, when I had my s-techs on and I'd take a hard turn, the whole car would lurch to the opposite side of the turn, it felt really mushy/splashy, whatever else you want to call it. Also the ride was a bit bouncy, I'd hit a bump and the car seemed to bounce a too much for a single bump. Also, s-techs were a bit too low. Now the sti springs seem to really handle to turns well. Less compression on the springs when taking hard turns making it less splashy. I'm driving with winter tires at the moment until wednesday when the new tires go on, and even with these tires the car really reacts well to sudden changes in direction with these springs. The sti springs are stiffer than any spring I've ever used and I can instantly feel it. I thought I could feel the imperfections on the road with the s-techs, but now I'm feeling even more road bumps. Another thing I instantly noticed is even though I can feel more bumps, it's not as bouncy. I'd hit a bump, the spring and strut reacts and compresses, then decompress once. Everything's happy. I hear that sti springs are a progressive rate spring, could this be the reason for less bounce?

The rear does sag a little, I'll probably get some saggy spacers sometime.
I've only driven the car around for a small part of the day, but so far so good, and I'm really happy with these springs.

[Lsnaple]

Well congrats on the new suspension setup. I recently aquired some sti struts with eibach springs and can't wait to install them. I would've a couple days ago until I realized the brake line went through the bracket on the stock strut, and it was only me at home so no swap. Lame. Only car I've had that had the brake line not just clipped to the strut. So in a few days I too will understand the excitement you feel!

[SVO1]

you can carefully cut the stock bracket so the brake line comes out without having to break it loose at a fitting.

[Navi271]

That's actually the first thing we did we I first got the struts. It's much easier to take struts out now and I don't have to bleed the brakes afterward because they were never disconnected.

Thanks tho!

[Navi271]

And also, just for reference. I went from this:

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr277/Navi271/IMG_2273.jpg

To this:

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr277/Navi271/IMG_2331work.jpg

The tires on the snowflakes are a little bigger because of the winter tread. Now have all season tires and it still looks about the same.

[Lsnaple]

Sweet. Yea when I looked at it the first time I knew I would cut the bracket too, but first had to charge the dremel. I finallyhad time to do mine yesterday and I have to say, what a huge difference! My car is looking good now, minus the shitty paint lol.

[Navi271]

lol, shitty paint or not, glad it's looking good!

Oh and also, for anyone looking on here. I was thinking about throwing on my s-techs again before I decided on STI springs, but I was worried that the rallyarmors would be rubbing on the ground all the time. The STI drop doesn't even come close to rubbing the mud flaps on the ground. I have about 1.5-2inch clearance from the mud flaps to the ground.

[Lsnaple]

Since we are talking about sti struts etc, maybe ill throw a couple pics up too. The lowered pics was taken yesterday with my phone, the other pic was several months ago I guess.If you want more pics search my name on photobucket.

Just to recap, 04 sti struts (RA, but part numbers are same as usdm), top hats, and eibach springs. By the way it rides great without being so stiff I just bounce all over. In my opinion, great dd setup.

Pictures updated with a better side shot on pavement.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110702_191128-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/HPIM1240-1.jpg

[Bd4mp-dub]

Could you use sti lowering springs if you are looking for an even lower drop?

[Lsnaple]

Could you use sti lowering springs if you are looking for an even lower drop?

If this is directed toward me, mine are sti lowering springs,oem sti struts, and oem sti tophats. If I had stock sti springs it would be a little higher say like an inch and a half give or take some. The OP has stock sti springs.

[Navi271]

It would even work with my situation. I could also switch out the STI springs for lowering springs. They'd have to be for a 04-07 sti tho because of the top hats I have.
From what I seen and learned, it's all about the top hats!

I'm not planning on lowering my car at all tho. I'd like the rear end to lift up a bit to match the front.

[Bd4mp-dub]

Cool thanks guys. I actually have a 95 wagon and 99 sedan, so both are helpful.

[Lsnaple]

Sure no problem, that's what forums are for! By the way I updated one of my pics with a better side shot on pavement.

[Bd4mp-dub]

Ya I seen that. Looks good man. I need to get my sedan up n running again! I love the color on your car

[Lsnaple]

Thanks. The paint isn't any good, up close it's flaking off around a lot of seams and the front and back bumper because a previous owner just had it painted over the stock paint. I've thought about changing the color but kinda like it because I think it gives the legacy a slightly more aggressive look that I think it needs. Oh well that's another thread

[Huffer]

^^ good info guys! Lsnaple, who did you buy the car from?

[chuckthefuk]

Thanks. The paint isn't any good, up close it's flaking off around a lot of seams and the front and back bumper because a previous owner just had it painted over the stock paint. I've thought about changing the color but kinda like it because I think it gives the legacy a slightly more aggressive look that I think it needs. Oh well that's another thread

There is nothing wrong with painting over existing paint. Paint acts just like primer. The problem with your paint job is the prep job (sanding down the clearcoat) was poor to say the least.

Either way a quick respray wont cost to much since the majorty of the car is painted WRB or whatever color code it is.

-Chuck

[Lsnaple]

I bought it from some random guy off craigslist around Atlanta about 2 years ago after I sold my bugeye. I was really looking for a gc impreza but was looking at all subarus, and I found this one that matched my criteria at the time...read cheap lol, and auto unfortunately because my knee just went out again.

^ I was always under the assumption that it needed to be sanded down fairly well. Makes sense though, anything I've painted ive always sanded down a lot and then primered before painting, and I rarely have sanded all the paint off. I've never painted a car though and since I got this one cheap I thought I might give it a shot. Better to practice on a cheap car than an expensive one! The way I see it, the blue will need to come off and sand some of the silver down to at least give it a better surface to stick to.

[Navi271]

I've been experimenting with rubber spring spacers to sit the rear a little bit higher to look balanced with the front. I just bought them from autozone, and i think they're meant for trucks. But so far, so good! It was hard to figure out where to put them in between the springs coils because there just aren't many coils in the sti spring lol. I'll get some pics of how it looks soon.

[Bd4mp-dub]

So my STI tophats come in the mail today. I am probably going to buy some eibach springs in the next couple weeks but what about the perches? do i need to get some for the fronts?

[chuckthefuk]

fronts should be the same as RS/WRX IIRC..

[Bd4mp-dub]

So all I need to do bolt the top hats to the struts with my sti springs?

[Navi271]

As long as you got some impreza front spring perches to match the springs. If I remember right, the legacy springs are a little wider than impreza springs, so the perches that go together in the front struts need to match.

Sorry but what are you working with again?? legacy struts, impreza eibach springs, and sti top hats???

[Bd4mp-dub]

Well honesty im kinda confused what the perches even are? I have Sti TopHats and wrx lowering springs on my legacy struts. Are the perches with the top hats? Tonight I'll up load a picture of my top hats.

[Bd4mp-dub]

Well honesty im kinda confused what the perches even are? I have Sti TopHats and wrx lowering springs on my legacy struts. Are the perches with the top hats? Tonight I'll up load a picture of my top hats.

[chuckthefuk]

Perch = metal support bracket that the spring sits on (lower) and under (upper).
Top Hat = Upper Strut mount which sits above the top perch which acts as a cushion that prevents the upper perch from rubbing the strut tower
Dust boot = Rubber corrugated tube that goes over the strut rod that prevents dirt, dust, rocks from ruining the oily tube.

Basicly if the stock strut itself has the lower perch built in.. The upper perch is removable since you have to be able to remvoe the spring during servicing.

IIRC the fronts on a legacy are similar to WRX/STi however in the rear you must use the proper perches if you want the spring to be snug and prevent movement (side to side / forward and back)

The STi springs are "tapered / coned shaped" so you MUST use the proper STi perches!!

-Chuck

[Bd4mp-dub]

Ok so now i get exactly what the difference is, i took the front suspension of my BD last night to see first hand. So i only have two questions, the OP said he needed the front perches and Chuck says rear. So do I need Both? also do they have to be 02-07 WRX/STI/RS perches? will the 93-01 models work?

[chuckthefuk]

The rears need the matching perch..

I was trying to specify that if your using WRX struts.. and then use STi rear springs you will need a STi rear perch even though the WRX and the STi are so similar.

Navi specified that hes using WRX parts and he needs perches to match.
93-01 RS will not work with GD 02+ items IIRC
02-07 WRX/RS are all the same IIRC
04-07 STi are all the same IIRC

Ok so for some solid facts now.. at least from my person expierence.

Wagon Front struts have larger springs and perches.
Sedan Front struts have smaller springs and perches compared to the wagon.

Sedan Front struts WILL fit a GD spring with no issues with perches or top hats.
REARS MUST BE GD's or at least have the perches...

-Chuck

[Navi271]

Honestly I found that my wrx spring perches and top hats worked just fine with my sti springs, if there is a difference, it is so miniscule that it doesn't really matter. They're basically the same. I also had no idea about the differences between sedan and wagon springs, that's very interesting.

Just to clarify, the rear 04-07 sti and wrx top hats and spring perches are one item. (this is what I'm using) The spring perch is like a rubber gasket that goes around the bottom of the top hat, like so:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/austinpike//GPN_rear.jpg
This is the best picture I could find. The spring just seats nicely onto it. The front spring perches are actually a separate piece from the top hat.
Also, added some rubber spring spacers. There aren't really many places to put these in the coils of the sti spring. The spring itself does not compress very much anyways when under the load of the car. I put the spacers between the coils near the top of the rear top hats. This is what it looks like now.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr277/Navi271/IMG_2339.jpg

Pretty similar right? It was really obvious that there were spacers in there before it settled. Just by looking at the sideskirt you can see that it's not at as much of an angle as it was before. The height it pretty much perfect for me right now!

[Bd4mp-dub]

OH! ok. i love pictures! :lol: So i only need the rear perches which is the rubber part.
Here is a picture of my top Hats. very dirty

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/07/5964264157_2f24c56155_z-1.jpg

I just need the springs now correct?

[mycargoesvroom]

Spring perches shouldn't be rubber, they're steel.

This is an upper spring perch (This one's been painted red)
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/07/perch-1.jpg

[Bd4mp-dub]

Yea those are the front ones but the rears are connected to the top hats already

[Bd4mp-dub]

So I got the WRX springs and tophats put on the wagon about a month ago or so and i was happy with the drop i got but i still wanted to get it lower. I found a set of Used Teins for the STI for only 120 and just put those on yesterday. I really like the drop i have. I had no need to compress the front or rear springs really because they were so much shorter. I will post some pictures up tomorrow in the daylight

[Navi271]

I want to go lower as well!!! With all the money I've spent in different spring setups I probably could've bought a nice set of coilovers by now lol. But these are just the springs you're talking about right? Yesssss pics! I need to see.

[Bd4mp-dub]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397203_332073803484084_100000444016852_1131208_1455482790_n.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/
I dont have a stock ride height picture. So assuming these are 14" also it shows a pretty decent drop.

So this is a look at the wagon. I have tein s-techs for a 02 wrx in the front and stock 05 STI springs in the back.
I have the 14" steelies on and i dont know if the pictures do justice. The wheels are little and i dont like the gap i have still. I am going to try and put my 17" on and see if it looks better. I really and not as lowe as i want to go tho. I am currently looking for a used set of coilovers because i still want a lower drop haha.

[chuckthefuk]

You installed OEM springs.. it did drop slightly but why not lowering springs?

[Bd4mp-dub]

OEM in the rear. The front r stechs. Because I didn't need to compress the rear springs wen I installed them so I didn't see a point in putting the techs on the rear only front. But I really don't think Springs are going to get me a drop I want. Probably going to order some Godspeed coilovers pretty soon.

[Navi271]

Dang, those sti springs sit really low in the rear! 17's will help reduce the gap, it did when I was on s-techs and 17's once upon a time.
But really if you want to go even lower, the only option is coilovers.

[grayguy]

I really need to get after market (or sti pinks) springs for the front of my L. looks silly so out of level.

[Navi271]

Yeah I think mine is looking just OK with spacers in the back, but still sometimes I catch my car doing the reverse rake and then I feel sad...

I wouldn't recommend using 2 different sets of springs front and back because you don't know how it will respond in an emergency situation. I'm wondering if pinks or JDM pinks front and rear will level it out more. If you look on the first page at Lsnaple's blue car, you can see that sti lowering springs set the car very even, so I've been debating about getting some sti lowering springs.