DIY: Turbo the EJ25D

[anothernord]

Well, once again, I've changed setups, this time from a JC Sports turbo kit, to a full WRX-style turbo setup. Why did I make this change? Mostly because I had a buyer that was wanting the kit very badly, and willing to pay well for it, within reason, and also because the JC sport kit positions the turbo in a way that will not allow a larger turbo to fit. Since I'd like a bigger turbo, and the cleaner*-install of a WRX-style turbo setup, I pulled the trigger. :lol: Call me insane, but I like to tinker.

If you ever decide to turbo your DOHC engine, this is probably the simplest way to do it besides getting a kit, which are rare and have quirks.



IMPORTANT: Engine Management

Here's the deal. If you use 91 octane, a good fuel pump, and have a good intercooler, you can run 5 PSI without engine management. However, any more boost than that requires an engine management system. This stuff has been covered a lot before, but I'll outline it. If you have a pre 2001 car, here are some options that people have had success with:

Piggybacks:
RalliTEK PP6
Greddy Emanage
Greddy Emanage Ultimate (I use this)
Apexi S-AFC
AEM F/IC

Standalones:
Megasquirt >>> http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t135220 ... -case.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t135220-diy-megasquirt-inside-stock-ecu-case.html)
AEM

The limit of the stock 280cc injectors is about 6-7 PSI, so if you want to run more than that, you'll need larger injectors, such as blue and pink WRX/STi top feeds, or yellow STi 04-06 side feeds.


First off, here's a list of parts I bought, about 2 weeks in advance of my planned install weekend.
I got a bunch of this stuff from eBay, so I'll copy the titles in so they're easier to find if you ever decide to do this.

Turbo Oil Feed line Kit M10 x 1.50mm TD04 TD05 TD06
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/oilline-1.jpg


IMPREZA WRX/STI 1P EJ25 STAINLESS STEEL HEADER MANIFOLD

I know for sure that this one will clear the N/A water pump, but the OEM WRX manifold will not clear it.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/header-1.jpg

Reducer Silicone Hose Coupler 90 degree 2.5" to 2.25"
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/elbow-1.gif

SUBARU HKS BLOW OFF VALVE BOV ADAPTER FLANGE

Obviously, you'll need an HKS-type valve for this, but you can use any BOV you want, just realize that there's not a ton of space to work with.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/bovplate-1.jpg

02-07 Subaru WRX STi Top Mount Intercooler Y Pipe Kit
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/ypipe-1.jpg

(ACE) 3/4" to 1/2" brass "tee"
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0856-1.jpg


OTHER PARTS:

-Turbo crossmember w/ turbo swaybar (N/A ones don't fit)
-Downpipe of your choice 02-07 WRX fitment
-Catback of your choice (or open stock WRX downpipe, sounds great and is cheap)
-2" straight silicone coupler
-2.5" - 3" silicone reducer
-2.5" "U" bend of aluminum pipe
-02-07 WRX TMIC (I used an 02, but the 06-07 fit much better)
-Turbo of your choice (I used a TD04 just to get it up and running, a VF39 will come soon)
-A 90 degree, 3/8" brass hose fitting for the drain to the valve cover
-2x 1/2" brass hose fitting for breathers/IACV/PCV
-Blow-off valve of your choice (I used an SSQV)
-2.75" straight silicone coupler (for the IC-TB connection)
-8 feet of 1/2" rubber hose
-2 feet of 5/8" rubber hose
-More things I'm forgetting, and will add later



Since my car is a daily driver, I planned out how I was going to do the install. Here's the basic outline of the main install. The first two days can be done any time, provided you have N/A headers, like Borlas, that will clear the turbo crossmember so you can drive around.

Day 1: Install turbo crossmember
Day 2: Tap valve cover, trim firewall and test fit intercooler
Day 3: Install everything!
Day 4: Repair small leaks, random problems, make everything look nice
Day 5: Tune

That's obviously a rough guide, but it gives you an idea of the time it takes to finish this sort of a project if your car is a DD.

The first thing you should do is install your turbo crossmember. Any 91-94 Legacy turbo crossmember will be a direct bolt-on. This is a pretty big install, so plan to do this ahead of time. An important note: The stock N/A headers won't clear the crossmember, so plan on using a set of Borla replicas (they clear the turbo crossmember), or just having your car offline while you put everything in. I don't have any pictures of this install, but just know that it involves unbolting the following:

-engine mounts
-steering rack
-both control arms
-swaybar
-crossmember itself
-U-joint to the steering wheel

Here's what it looks like.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0797-1.jpg




Next thing to do is tap the valve cover for the turbo's oil drain. I used the 90 degree fitting, drilled a hole, then screwed it in with teflon tape. A rubber stopper went in the hose end so it wouldn't leak while I waited for other parts to come in. I used a 3/4" drill bit, then just screwed the fitting in.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110609_110611-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110609_111326-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110609_111318-1.jpg


The next step is really only necessary if you have an 02-05 intercooler. The 06-07 TMIC's are much shorter an don't have fitment issues. Basically, this step involves grinding away part of the lip on the firewall, under the brake lines. I don't think there;s anything really structural, and grinding away a bit won't do much to weaken the unibody.

Before, the firewall area looks like this:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0790-1.jpg

And after a bunch of cutting, grinding, and test fitting, it will look something like this:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0792-1.jpg

Make sure and spray on some clearcoat or something to keep the bare metal from rusting.

You'll also need to shorten you clutch reservoir. This is easy, just take it off, cut it, deburr, then reinstall.

Or, you can get a sweet JDM offset reservoir from a JDM BC Legacy. (photo credit: kimokalihi) They're kinda hard to find:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_1851-1.jpg

You may choose to trim off the throttle body and outlet of the intercooler for more clearance. I did, and it makes the intercooler fit much nicer. It will still fit otherwise, but not nearly as nicely.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Main install:

If you have access to a lift, or better yet, a pit, use it. Otherwise just put the car on jack stands.

The most time consuming thing to do is re-routing the PCV, breather, and IACV lines. I don't have pictures of this, because I'm sure there's a better way to do it, but you'll need to get a T as close to the crankcase vent as possible, and make it very low, and flush to the rest of the stuff under the IACV. I made one line go under the passenger side intake manifold, looping up behind the power steering reservoir, then another under the throttle body, then around to T in with the breathers lines.

I ran the breather lines on top of the engine, and used the stock T connector to combine them.

For the IACV, I ran a short bit of hose to a 90" 3/4" barb elbow, which runs up to a fitting on the intake tube.

Here's what my hoses look like, as an idea.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0819-1.jpg


Now, you can jack up the engine a bit, bend the power steering lines out of the way a bit, and install the manifold, using new gaskets. If you can, get ahold of one of the turbo suspending mounts, and bolt it on:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0814-1.jpg




UPDATE: I was dumb and used a plain heater hose for the oil drain line. It cannot hold up to the temp of the exhaust and oil, and had completely degraded after a few weeks. A SS line is highly recommended. Transmission hose would also work.


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0811-1.jpg



Next up to tackle: the coolant lines. I tapped into the heater core lines, using the 2 3/4" to 1/2" tees.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0857-1.jpg

On the turbo, you need to cut the feed line in the middle so you can flip the top line back so it aims toward the firewall.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0852-1.jpg

The, run the 1/2" line around.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0859-1.jpg


Now, install your oil-feed lines. You can either use high-temp thread sealant for the fittings, or teflon tape. Either will work.

There's a number of different ways to arrange your 1/8" brass tee, but I made mine like this, so it won't hit the alternator.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0815-1.jpg


Next, bolt up the downpipe of your choice.


Here's what you'll have on the intake side:

You'll need to trim the 2.25-2.5" intake coupler to let it clear the intake manifold. The 2.5" intake tube can also be cut to fit at this point. Drill the holes for the brass fittings, and install them as well.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110609_214244-1.jpg


As you can see, the stock WRX y-pipe won't line up, so we have to extend it to meet the turbo. I wouldn't advise cutting the stock y-pipe and trying to make it seal with a coupler. Just get an aftermarket y-pipe, trust me.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110609_214921-1.jpg

On the pressure side, you have to extend the y-pipe downward to meet the turbo outlet, using the extra 2" coupler and piece of pipe. Here's an idea:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110622_142134-1.jpg

Now, you should have something like this at this point.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0805-1.jpg

Here's everything else mocked up:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0804-1.jpg

For your BOV/BPV, just bolt it on. My SSQV flange was a close fit:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0793-1.jpg


At this point, you're basically done! It's just a matter of clamping everything in place, and testing it out! I know I missed some important information, so I'll try and add it in as I remember. Don't forget to get an exhaust made/bolted on.


Here's my finished product:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_0835-1.jpg


Happy boosting. :cool:



Update #1:

I swapped out my IACV for an EJ22t version, which has a nifty 90 degree inlet that makes it way easier to route.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110630_173932-1.jpg

I found that the EJ22t has a one-way valve in the little plate behind it that prevents boost from leaking. It swaps right over to the 25D manifold.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_20110630_173211-1.jpg

Update #2

I really hated how the intercooler sits really far back, and has to be all crooked due to the EGR valve.

So, I did a couple modifications to make it sit nicer.

First was chopping down the throttle body. I never use cruise control, so I just took all the pieces off the threaded rods (in order), the ran a die to create new threads, cut off the excess of the rods with a grinder, and put everything back together.

On the throttle body itself, I just lopped off about an ~1.5 inches, then cut/dremeled out around the chunk of metal that holds the throttle plate arms.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_1136-1.jpg

Comparison with stock throttle body to show differences:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_1137-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_1135-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_1138-1.jpg

For the EGR valve, I just elongated the hole on the bottom towards the valve, then sliced open the one on the top so it can sit lower. Then, I ground down the metal where it would otherwise cover up the openings so as to not reduce flow.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_1183-1.jpg

Update:

At about 16 PSI, E85 or 330 CHP, this is what happens to the 25D rods:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_19861_zps019182b5-1.jpg

[datdookie]

wow, tell it how it is brotha! Ill save this for the far future.

[MRLancaster]

So how much total lol

And how reliable?

[anothernord]

It's as reliable as you make it. I put in about $800 so far.

[MRLancaster]

And you didnt have to change the pistons or anything??? How much boost do you have?

[anothernord]

Same engine as my other builds - stock. I'm running 13 psi on E85; it's all in the tuning.

[Huffer]

NFS makes it look so easy. :lol:

Great writeups as always! I will never do this, but kudos to you for making it very clear.

[httrdd]

Nice man! Now put a vid with it for motivational purposes. :grin:

[peter]

Now Im getting thoughts again to turbo my car, thanks haha. But good work, now time for some videos!

[anothernord]

I need a camera mount. So you can all see the hood lift up when it spools: mostly due to the bad stock suspension.

[r3v_v3ng3]

what are you using for engine management?

[anothernord]

Greddy Emanage Ultimate. It's one of the best piggybacks; I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[ShadowGT]

This is a good write up, I love it. I have a question though. In your first picture of the underside of your car, what is the orange goopy stuff between the exhaust headers and cylinder head?

[1-3-2-4]

Nice write up I was hoping you would do this.. I was thinking about doing this down the road but a EJ22 spare motor..

one question.. well maybe two..

What about the uppipe? and if you put a turbo crossmember on then that means NA headers wont fit?

*edit well I answered my own question as far as the uppipe

[anothernord]

Turbo crossmember + stock N/A headers = sad face. Borla N/A headers do work.

The orange stuff is copper RTV. It works well for temporary exhaust gaskets.

['Buru in the Burgh]

This is awesome, I'll be using this next spring : )

[ShadowGT]

Turbo crossmember + stock N/A headers = sad face. Borla N/A headers do work.

The orange stuff is copper RTV. It works well for temporary exhaust gaskets.

Copper RTV. Cool, thanks.

[Drakien]

Thanks for the write up! You really helped me with my build.

Would you think front mount would be easier than top mount?

[anothernord]

Noooo, the front mount it a way bigger undertaking. Go check the DIY for it.

You basically just put the TMIC in the engine bay, and trim bits here and there, if you need to.

[mycargoesvroom]

I'd like to see what kind of power you're making with this. How's it feel?

[anothernord]

It should be somewhere around stock STi power, at least at it's peak. I've ridden in "Stage 2" WRX's that felt like dog in comparison.

It feels like a warp drive is kicking in around 3100 RPM. It tapers off quite a lot past 4500 though. Hence the need for a larger turbo. :twisted:

[Drakien]

Just a question about tuning, did you use the same piggy back from your S/C setup or are you running this without a tune?

[anothernord]

Yep, same Emanage. This setup would not be good to run without a tune.

[anothernord]

Added in some stuff on coolant lines, and engine management.

[99' legacy l]

id like to see a dyno sheet on this thing

[r3v_v3ng3]

did you do anything to your fuel rail? i've read on other rails, they do a parallel mod on it but i don't know if the ej25d needs it. also i see in the pic that you have the stock fuel regulator and wondering if an adjustable one is needed. thanks

[BG5]

I'm going to turbo my 99 Legacy Brighton with single port EJ22.

Here is the parts list for my setup

Walbro 255
02 WRX up pipe, down pipe and cat-back
02 TMIC and oem bpv
02 WRX turbo
WRX crossmember
12:1 FMU
manaul boost controller
wideband o2, boost gauge and oil temp gauge

try to keep 5-6psi with out EM

just want to see that the WRX crossmember is direct bolt on or not and the turbo swaybar is really needed??

[Garrison]

Why 12:1 on the FMU?


I'm going to turbo my 99 Legacy Brighton with single port EJ22.

Here is the parts list for my setup

Walbro 255
02 WRX up pipe, down pipe and cat-back
02 TMIC and oem bpv
02 WRX turbo
WRX crossmember
12:1 FMU
manaul boost controller
wideband o2, boost gauge and oil temp gauge

try to keep 5-6psi with out EM

just want to see that the WRX crossmember is direct bolt on or not and the turbo swaybar is really needed??

[anothernord]

I'm going to turbo my 99 Legacy Brighton with single port EJ22.

Here is the parts list for my setup

Walbro 255
02 WRX up pipe, down pipe and cat-back
02 TMIC and oem bpv
02 WRX turbo
WRX crossmember
12:1 FMU
manaul boost controller
wideband o2, boost gauge and oil temp gauge

try to keep 5-6psi with out EM

just want to see that the WRX crossmember is direct bolt on or not and the turbo swaybar is really needed??

WRX crossmembers have wider control arm spots, requiring spacers, and the steering rack is different*. Get a Legacy Turbo crossmember; it's a simple bolt-on.

Ditch the aftermarket FPR. I don't know where people got the idea that those were the most awesome thing in the world to use, but it's about the most ghetto way to control your fuel possible. If you're getting a $150 wideband, you might as well get at least a S-AFC to control fuel.

I never messed with my fuel rail. If you're engine is that high-strung that a minute difference in fueling is going to hurt something, you'd need to rethink your whole tune.

[Garrison]

You'll be happy to know that I just tapped my valve cover today :grin: (following your instructions)
And since I had to replace the valve cover gasket, I did that as well.

Scared myself a bit with the position of the oil drain fixture (same as yours, but I had trouble sliding it back down into position); but I figured it out. I had to go sideways, rear to front, sliding the valve cover across the side of the engine.
Thanks again for the great how-to!

[anothernord]

Not a problem, I'm glad to help.

Don't forget to use an elbow or something on your oil drain off the turbo. I didn't use one (just ran the hose) for a while, and I saw that it was getting kinked a bit. The best option would be an angled oil drain right off the turbo, but as long as it all downhill, it should be fine.

[Garrison]

I'm not sure I understand... my turbo has a directly verticle outlet (drain) for the oil. How else (what other type of fitting) would work?

[anothernord]

You could get a universal oil drain flange, then put a 45 degree to a barb fitting.

[Garrison]

Ah, I see what you're driving at. How necessary would you rate changing the fitting?

[anothernord]

Just make sure the drain has no possibility of backing up in any circumstance. Even if, for example, the car were tilted at a weird angle or something.

[lord flashheart]

i just want to add that you dont need a custom oil line. this is a common misconception. the EJ25D has the oil galley plugs for your hi pressure feed and your return line. the factory EJ205 or EJ257 oil lines work perfectly, and are cheaper

[anothernord]

i just want to add that you dont need a custom oil line. this is a common misconception. the EJ25D has the oil galley plugs for your hi pressure feed and your return line. the factory EJ205 or EJ257 oil lines work perfectly, and are cheaper

I just realized this over the weekend. :lol:


Also, if you're adventurous, you can drill out the N/A head to accept an oil drain too. The bolt hole for the bracket is even on there.

[lord flashheart]

yea i had a custom line that was causing all kinds of probs. so i switched to OEM lines and im never looking back. im also on a crusade to rid the world of custom oil lines! lol jk
just trying to get info out there.

[anothernord]

Alright, a couple new updates, check the first post. Mostly stuff relating to intercooler fitment.

[anothernord]

Soon to be added; how to do a WRX-style intake under the manifold, as well as a WRX throttle body/IACV swap, so you can get rid of the giant IACV that gets in the way of everything on the side of the manifold.

[Garrison]

Soon to be added; WRX throttle body/IACV swap, so you can get rid of the giant IACV that gets in the way of everything on the side of the manifold.
I'm completely down for this.

[Colorado_Outback]

Super awesome, time to start hoarding parts.

[MySubie]

wow this thread is sorta old. but hows the outback holding up to the turbo. im gonna be doing this as well. did you ever swap out intakes?

[lord flashheart]

wow this thread is sorta old. but hows the outback holding up to the turbo. im gonna be doing this as well. did you ever swap out intakes?
well its not that old of a thread...
anyways im pretty sure anothernord has been running this on his car for a couple years. my legacy is holding up great to boost. i accidently melted my boost controller and it fell apart. my car started boosting to like 9-10lbs and was just fine.

im genuinely interested in the IACV swap. and the under manifold piping. ive been considering putting my EJ20K manifold on my car.. but if i remember right... there was some reason why i didnt use it... just cant remember why...

[anothernord]

I ran this VF34'd/E85/12 psi setup for 8 months or so, after running a TD04 setup for 8 months, and a supercharger for a year. The ol' EJ25D gave up a couple months ago. I was running way too much timing; got one little detonation even and that broke stuff.

As for the IACV swap, after discussing with a bunch of guys on RS2.5, we found that the WRX IACV, although it has the same plug, uses a different control scheme, and therefore isn't possible.

As for the under-manifold inlet, it's pretty easy, you just have to take the manifold off and cut off the tabs that hold the purge solenoid on.

I didn't get any pictures, since I ended up just using the twin turbo manifold for my new swap, but joejoe has a pretty good guide here:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/81773-pro ... ost1599103 (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/81773-project-ej18t-6.html#post1599103)


Edit: You probably found that the 20k manifold didn't have provisions for EGR. My 20H manifold doesn't either, but I plan to rig in a custom system. Just bend and flare some tubes.

[lord flashheart]

i figured that the values would be different between the two iacv. wow 12psi! im guessing the only way you can get away with that is on E. i bet your making 300CHP at least am i right? im getting an AEM EMS4 or a Gready Emanage so ill probably tune for E85 or race fuel. because my work buys 116,110, and strait E. so i can get it at work and dont have to worry about finding a gas station. we ran a 116/Ethanol mix and that stuff was AMAZING. but it was like $13 a gallon... i usually run 2 bottles of octane booster per tank in my car to keep it from detonating. also one step colder plugs is a good idea.

[anothernord]

E85 is FTW unless your car is a daily. Even then, it's pretty fun, minus the cold start issues.

Yeah, I figured it was around 280-300 at the crank. My new setup should be fine for 300 at the wheels on 91.

[lord flashheart]

whats ur new set up? how are you going to drop the compression enough to get 300 on pump gas?...
just noticed your signature changed from "97' outback turbo" to "97' outback EJ20H"
so thats the first gen 20TT which means its hydraulic bucket lifters right? if this is so, i would use the EJ20H short block and put your EJ25D heads on it.
they are shim over bucket and way better. not to mention they look better. i used a set of the hydraulic heads and i didnt like them. plus im 99% sure that the ONLY difference between the EJ20H and EJ20R is the heads. the EJ20H use the same heads as the EJ20G (bucket HLA style) and the 1996 EJ25D. and the EJ20R uses the 1997-1998 EJ20G, and 1997-1999 EJ25D heads. sooooooo... if you put the EJ25D out of your car on that EJ20H shortblock, it would be more or less a EJ20R.

[lord flashheart]

BTW, how did that supercharger thing work out? my buddy is obsessed with going supercharged.

[anothernord]

Just look at my member's ride link in the sig. :cool:

Why did I use the 20H heads? The ports are GIGANTIC compared to the old 2.5 heads, and yes, they're HLA, but my redline is at 6300 anyway, and the lifters are fine up to that point. Plus, the heads would have a much larger bore than the block, which would lead to some nice hot spots and possible detonation.

The supercharger was fun, and I miss it, but it's really hard to make good power with those small blowers, without going centrifugal, like the Raptor kits. I would definitely do it again to a non-daily driven car.

[lord flashheart]

Plus, the heads would have a much larger bore than the block, which would lead to some nice hot spots and possible detonation.

This is false, because of the clover shaped combustion chamber. Besides the 25 is 99.5 mm bore and the ej20 is 92 mm that means roughly 3.7mm on each side. Plus the hydraulic are noisey, and draw oil pressure meaning less oil for bearings, turbo, cams etc. Idk I don't like em that much. I never noticed the ports to be honest. Anyways

Im gonna follow your build thread. You do some cool Shit for sure.
Shed did you get your supercharger?

[Garrison]

i just want to add that you dont need a custom oil line. this is a common misconception. the EJ25D has the oil galley plugs for your hi pressure feed and your return line. the factory EJ205 or EJ257 oil lines work perfectly, and are cheaper
Pics of these ports? I'd love to get rid of my overly complicated (somewhat "drippy" setup).

[Garrison]

Bump for this, I would like to know where the oil ports are engine, please.

[anothernord]

Its just the bolt on the back of the head below the fuel pressure regulator.

[r3v_v3ng3]

here you go

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t140777 ... turbo.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t140777-how-convert-n-dohc-heads-turbo.html)

[Garrison]

Gotcha. So the oil feed is no problem, but I'm not pulling my entire heads to drill an oil return when the one in the valve cover works just as well.

Thanks very much for the help gentlemen.

[susiemk]

Just look at my member's ride link in the sig. :cool:

Why did I use the 20H heads? The ports are GIGANTIC compared to the old 2.5 heads, and yes, they're HLA, but my redline is at 6300 anyway, and the lifters are fine up to that point. Plus, the heads would have a much larger bore than the block, which would lead to some nice hot spots and possible detonation.

The supercharger was fun, and I miss it, but it's really hard to make good power with those small blowers, without going centrifugal, like the Raptor kits. I would definitely do it again to a non-daily driven car.

+1 on the ports!
Ej25d DOHC 2.5l ports are tiny when compared to EJ20G head ports too.

I swapped a leaky EJ25D from a '98 Outback to a V2 STi-RA EJ20G & the ports are huge on the RA!

It has solid lifters & OEM RA redline is like 7600rpms (fuel cut is supposedly higher) which is of no use in the '98 outback that has a 6200'ish RPM redline but the RA engine is really Silent & SMOOTH when running - I guess they were not playing when they say "Handcrafted & Tuned by STi".

The V2 & older (1996 down) RA engines got
5 injector intake manifolds
Better cams
Solid Lifters
Closed Deck Block - even when the normal EJ20G went to an open deck design
Forged pistons!
Hand assembled / Balanced by a STi Tech!

V3+ RA Belt covers say "Tuned by STi" but dropped the "Handcrafted" part of the statment

I have not been able to get the 2-step working properly on the EManage Ultimate on this car - the car reads & logs speedo input but will not 2-step at all even with a retard value entered...?...

[bmwpride]

Where do the stock oil feed lines run, on the ej25d. Im away from the car for a few weeks, but would love to know so i can do that when i get back

[bmwpride]

Where do the stock oil feed lines run, on the ej25d. Im away from the car for a few weeks, but would love to know so i can do that when i get back

[kimokalihi]

Nice writeup! I noticed you snagged my photo of the offset clutch reservoir. :)

[kimokalihi]

and if you put a turbo crossmember on then that means NA headers wont fit?


If you're turboing your car you won't have to worry about NA headers. They wouldn't be of any use to you.

[anothernord]

Nice writeup! I noticed you snagged my photo of the offset clutch reservoir. :)

Only from one of my favorite build threads on the internets! :cool:

[kimokalihi]

Well, Thank You! That's flattering.

[mapexdave7488]

I have a stock 97 legacy outback wagon...can i put a turbo on it like you did n it fit and run ok?

[mapexdave7488]

I have a stock 97 legacy outback wago...can i put a wrx turbo in it and how much m i looking at?

[anothernord]

There's a LOT to this project, make sure to read the whole guide and search for hours and hours. Total cost will be $1200. Budget $1500-2000.

[mapexdave7488]

Does that cost include the turbo and labor or just parts

[anothernord]

:lol: Hey now, this is the D.I.Y. forum, which means do it yourself. A shop would probably not even want to do this, and if they did, I would be a few thousand dollars. Like I said, if you're interested in turboin' your car, I would spend at least 100 hours reading and researching.

[mapexdave7488]

Ok man thanks

[omgshitsjrdn]

I'm not a pro or anything, but I heard a Bypass valve is better than a BOV? I heard it from

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2881510/1 ... aru-legacy (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2881510/1998-subaru-legacy)

[Garrison]

I'm not a pro or anything, but I heard a Bypass valve is better than a BOV? I heard it from

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2881510/1 ... aru-legacy (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2881510/1998-subaru-legacy)
Well, yes and no. Better is a misnomer. The bov vents to the atmosphere, while a recirc sends the air back into the intake tract, to keep the turbo spinning and prevent surge. There is no real evidence that surge is bad for a turbo, it just makes the typical squirrel noise and is assumed to be bad.

[anothernord]

Yes, people get them confused somehow. A vent to atmosphere BPV/BOV really won't cause any huge problems. In my swap, I just have a stocker in recirc mode.

[aguyinthesky]

wait u said you were running a piggyback? i take it you dont have the ej25d ecu anymore or else youd b running a standalone?

[anothernord]

Emanage Ultimate + EJ25D ECU is what I'm running at the moment.

[Thomistopheles]

Recirculated vs. vented to atmosphere is all about metered air. The MAF sensor tells the ECU it has X amount of air, but when it's dumped to the atmosphere the ECU doesn't know that it lost some air, and keeps giving fuel...causes a momentary rich condition. Recirculated dumps the air into the intake pre-turbo, so the ECU doesn't get confused and everything's all unicorns and rainbows.

MAP equipped cars don't give a crap either way :lol:

[anothernord]

And when you say momentary, it is truly just a small blip in the AFR. It's not like theres raw fuel just dumping out the tailpipe.

[Thomistopheles]

Yep, it's not a big deal. There's no ocean of fuel pouring into the combustion chamber, it's not going to stall, nor will it explode and level a small village. :lol:

[omgshitsjrdn]

Yes, people get them confused somehow. A vent to atmosphere BPV/BOV really won't cause any huge problems. In my swap, I just have a stocker in recirc mode.

Not trying to create a controversy here, but I just want clarifications of why he thinks that way


PilotandPaddler:
No blow off valve. A blow off valve on a Subie slows it down because it blows off metered air, causing the car to run rich (adding fuel? for the blown off air). Instead, it is using a TXS Racing Bypass Valve Type H34 (Full recirc). The idea is that instead of blowing off the metered air, it recirculates it back into the intake being that it is already metered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kVHqKCWu4I

[Garrison]

Yes, people get them confused somehow. A vent to atmosphere BPV/BOV really won't cause any huge problems. In my swap, I just have a stocker in recirc mode.

Not trying to create a controversy here, but I just want clarifications of why he thinks that way


PilotandPaddler:
No blow off valve. A blow off valve on a Subie slows it down because it blows off metered air, causing the car to run rich (adding fuel? for the blown off air). Instead, it is using a TXS Racing Bypass Valve Type H34 (Full recirc). The idea is that instead of blowing off the metered air, it recirculates it back into the intake being that it is already metered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kVHqKCWu4I


Likely because the length of time of overfueling is so short, and the effect so minor (because it happens at shift time), that the whole debate really comes down to "do you want to attract attention on the street or not?"

[lord flashheart]

i hate BOVs for 2 reasons.

1) the computer is constantly messuring air in the engine and putting fuel in accordingly. so you messure this air and then dump it off into the atmosphere. so your computer doesnt know that its dumping it so it puts in fuel to match air that isnt in the engine.

2) unless you buy a expensive one, they offen malfunction, especially if you dont adjust them properly.

[anothernord]

+1 on what Garrison said.

[omgshitsjrdn]

Okay, thanks guy! This is helpful

[98bk6]

Dude this is an awsome right up. I was going to do a swap, but now that I've seen this, it's opened a new light. It'll be alot cheaper going this route and without rewiring and headaches.

[anothernord]

I would still swap if you're looking to daily drive. There's so many small problems you'll run into with a custom setup. They just take time to work out.

[98legacygt22]

What emanage did you use exactly? My car is a 97 Legacy GT wagon manual trans, was a 2.5 (soon to be a 2.2 with ej25D heads and wrx turbo) but it still has the original ecu and what not but GReddy doesn't have a specific one for my car they just have it for the BD5/BG5 and it says ej20 after it. Is that the one I'd use? Im a noob to all this so please bare with me :grin:

[anothernord]

The harness is the only thing that's vehicle specific. But they don't make a harness for the 25D ECU so you just need a universal harness then wire it in old school.

[98legacygt22]

Ah so the pricing of $180 on their site is probably just for the harness I'm guessing. How much do they usually run for the setup?

[anothernord]

Correct! I picked mine up used with a harness for about $400. But, I'd recommend looking into a standalone ECU as well.

[98legacygt22]

I might just wind up using the Apexi Neo, the tuning seems to be the most expensive part of the build!

[98bk6]

I would still swap if you're looking to daily drive. There's so many small problems you'll run into with a custom setup. They just take time to work out.


Yeah, I know but I'm planning on doing a complete tear down and rebuild in the near future, so this would still be cheaper I think :smt017 or would a full swap be cheaper? :?:

[98legacygt22]

I would still swap if you're looking to daily drive. There's so many small problems you'll run into with a custom setup. They just take time to work out.


Yeah, I know but I'm planning on doing a complete tear down and rebuild in the near future, so this would still be cheaper I think :smt017 or would a full swap be cheaper? :?:

Depends on how good you are at sourcing parts, I found my heads for $100, and my turbo for $60 so far and I plan on finding a wrx top mount for $40-$60. I think the most expensive part will be the tuning and exhaust. Im trying to keep my budget on parts under $500

[lord flashheart]

I would still swap if you're looking to daily drive. There's so many small problems you'll run into with a custom setup. They just take time to work out.

i disagree. ive done a couple swaps, and a couple custom setups. and personally i prefer the custom setup.
doing swaps you will run into, lots of stupid problems. (like you have 3 hoses, and 5 fittings, extra plugs etc.)
also there is so much swapping that hast to go on, like the fuel tank, and dash.
swapping the dash requires cutting and welding dash bars..
if you go custom, slap a walbro 255 in there, leave your dash, no harness merging etc.
idk.. just my opinion. custom is way easier.

[anothernord]

Sure, way easier to put together, but with a swap, after you're done with all the initial work, there's NO other weird problems aside from anything that would happen on a stock WRX.

But a custom setup is much cheaper. In the end, you get what you put in as far as time, research, and money.

[lord flashheart]

It comes down to if it was done properly. I've seen gehtto as fuck swaps, and gehtto as fuck custom jobs. We have 2 swapped gc8 and 1 STi swapped 99lgt at our shop that need to be redone because they weren't done right. I've seen some custom set ups that were super gehtto as well. But if they are done right, I personally think that custom is the way to go. Newer cars are getting so complicated that most of the time it makes diagnosing swap issues insane. You never know if its a faulty part, or something installed incorrectly, or some qwerky issue with whatever.. ive seen lots of both, just my opinion.

[legacy360.]

will almost any down pipe work? or does it have to be a factory dp? Ive heard about the dp hitting the fire wall on occasion. id like to avoid that if at all possible

[anothernord]

will almost any down pipe work? or does it have to be a factory dp? Ive heard about the dp hitting the fire wall on occasion. id like to avoid that if at all possible

If the turbo is in the stock location, any Subaru downpipe will fit. Firewall clearance isn't an issue.

[lord flashheart]

I know subaru has different dp part numbers for the auto and manual in the legacy gt I heard you can use a auto dp in a manual car but not the other way around. Not sure if its pipe length or if it interferes with the transmission it self. Or if its something dumb like an O2 bung being in a diff spot.

[mike-tracy]

^^It has to do with the bracket that bolts to the tranny off the DP. Since the auto tranny is wider (I'm speculating here), the bracket doesn't stick out as far. I must have an auto DP since the bracket doesnt even come close.

[lord flashheart]

cool. i figured it was something gay like that.

[anothernord]

BTW: When you go to weld on a bung to the downpipe for your wideband o2 sensor, make sure you don't weld it on in a place where you can't get the sensor in there... D'oh!

[98legacygt22]

Ok so I have most of my parts ready to go together, should I bother with a light weight flywheel? I know I want to at least use a stage 1 clutch as I'll be running my car at 10psi once I let everything break in. I have to still get a down pipe and 3 inch exhaust, and a top mount, maybe some wrx injectors if I can figure out what ones will fit with the 25d intake.

[anothernord]

WRX injectors are top feed, and won't work in the 25D fuel rails, which are side feed. You'll eventually want the 04-06 STi 535cc sidefeeds, as they drop right in.

[Garrison]

Too much injector for 10psi, IMO

[anothernord]

I say that because they're readily available, and you'll be pushing those 280cc red injectors pretty hard at that boost level. With a proper EM, driveability is fine with the STi yellows.

[98legacygt22]

Yeah I'd rather have too much fuel than too little and burn up the pistons, I'll just add better spark to compensate for the increase in fuel. They never made side feed wrx injectors? thats odd. I'm going to be using an safc for now and I plan on eventually swapping my engine management to that of a wrx so I can use a cobb access port.

[1-3-2-4]

Two well maybe three things holds me back from trying this..

1.) Doing this to a stock motor
2.) getting the management right
3.) Downtime

Also I replaced my transmission not too long ago since it had no 5th gear when I picked it up it was rather easy to swap out but not beating on it what can a stock 5Mt handle on power?

$950-1200 is enough to do this?

I see that the op's EJ25D blew :-/

[Garrison]

Two well maybe three things holds me back from trying this..

1.) Doing this to a stock motor
2.) getting the management right
3.) Downtime

Also I replaced my transmission not too long ago since it had no 5th gear when I picked it up it was rather easy to swap out but not beating on it what can a stock 5Mt handle on power?

$950-1200 is enough to do this?

I see that the op's EJ25D blew :-/
The OP is also a crazed boost fiend who was running I believe 15lb boost on his stock ej25d, with ethanol blend.

[anothernord]

Two well maybe three things holds me back from trying this..

1.) Doing this to a stock motor
2.) getting the management right
3.) Downtime

Also I replaced my transmission not too long ago since it had no 5th gear when I picked it up it was rather easy to swap out but not beating on it what can a stock 5Mt handle on power?

$950-1200 is enough to do this?

I see that the op's EJ25D blew :-/

That's a good budget for the basic parts You'll still need a wideband and EM. The piggyback or standalone will be by far the most expensive piece though. If you plan to use an Emanage or another good piggyback, I imagine you'd go over that budget.

Its hard to say how much power the 5MT will hold, but if you don't do stupid things like 6k clutch dumps, it will probably be ok. I have currently have ~300-330HP going though my 5MT, and I haven't had any problems. It is the shock loading that breaks the 5MT.

[1-3-2-4]

Yeah the Emanage I figured would set me back like $600 I might have to check the first page again but how well does the stock fuel pump do at say 5 psi? If I decide I'd at least store the parts until I have about 95% of the parts ready to go.

One thing I haven't seen is how the Emanage connects to the ECU I assume it uses a harness, the universal one I think you said?

[anothernord]

I got mine used for $400 with the universal harness. And the universal harness is just all the wires, connected to plugs that go to the EMU. You then have to splice/tap all the wires into the existing wiring of the ECU. If you understand how the sensor signals work, and how to read wiring diagrams, it isn't that difficult.

[lord flashheart]

Yeah the Emanage I figured would set me back like $600 I might have to check the first page again but how well does the stock fuel pump do at say 5 psi? If I decide I'd at least store the parts until I have about 95% of the parts ready to go.


i ran the stock fuel pump for 6 months with no issues.
but i would recommend an upgraded pump.
also in the winter if you plan on running 6psi
you will have to turn down the boost in winter because the air is more dense
so you get more air in and the injectors usually cant keep up.
if you are looking to do it on the cheap, you can get a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
which turns up the fuel pressure to match the boost. the computer doesnt know the difference.
ive done that on some a couple Hondas, toyotas, chevys, and a subaru. they work if you want to
run just a little more boost.

[1-3-2-4]

I forgot one thing.. what about emissions testing?

[anothernord]

I hope you have catalytic converters welded into the downpipe, or have a stock downpipe to swap on for testing.

[grayguy]

For the $600 on emanage, you might be able to pick up a used standalone.

[lord flashheart]

Yes, I bought mine new for 800 with the harness so finding one use for less shouldn't be hard. but if he lives somewhere where you have OBD2 testing he wouldn't be able to pass emissions.

[anothernord]

Why would a piggyback cause you to fail the OBD test?

[grayguy]

I'd move if I had to pass inspection haha

[Garrison]

Why would a piggyback cause you to fail the OBD test?
Negative, the obd2 port is still used in a piggyback, but nullified in a stand alone. I'm fairly confident that's what makes them unusable. Buuut, in NC, 99 is about to be emissions exempt :D

[1-3-2-4]

Yes, I bought mine new for 800 with the harness so finding one use for less shouldn't be hard. but if he lives somewhere where you have OBD2 testing he wouldn't be able to pass emissions.


They don't do OBDII testing here just sniffer.. Nor do they do visual inspections

I haven't had my stock 97 OB checked this year at all a little mix up at the DMV and they never got back to me so I'm not complaining..

IMHO emissions are a waste anyways I've seen so many cars here driving with a huge cloud of blue smoke you would of thought the car was on fire...

[1-3-2-4]

For the $600 on emanage, you might be able to pick up a used standalone.


That was ebay prices

[1-3-2-4]

[quote="1-3-2-4":1s1r043j]Yeah the Emanage I figured would set me back like $600 I might have to check the first page again but how well does the stock fuel pump do at say 5 psi? If I decide I'd at least store the parts until I have about 95% of the parts ready to go.


i ran the stock fuel pump for 6 months with no issues.
but i would recommend an upgraded pump.
also in the winter if you plan on running 6psi
you will have to turn down the boost in winter because the air is more dense
so you get more air in and the injectors usually cant keep up.
if you are looking to do it on the cheap, you can get a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
which turns up the fuel pressure to match the boost. the computer doesnt know the difference.
ive done that on some a couple Hondas, toyotas, chevys, and a subaru. they work if you want to
run just a little more boost.[/quote:1s1r043j]I know about the winter air but this is the first I heard of having to adjust for seasonal changes like this, if it's just a matter of finding injectors that will do fine in both winter and summer then it's no big deal to swap them out.

[anothernord]

You shouldn't have to be changing things just because of a change in temperature. That's ghetto and unnecessary if you have a properly-tuned setup. Air flow, no matter the temperature, is still mass flow.

[lord flashheart]

This is only If you don't have a way to tune it, and don't run an upgraded pump, you will be on 100% duty cylce, which is very hard on the injectors drivers. Believe it or not you can overload the ecu. You will know when you do it because your computer will shut down for a second when you go under boost and overload the injectors drivers.

[lord flashheart]

i was saying i bought a standalone for 800, but a stand alone will cause you to fail the OBD2 test. thats why i picked the 95. i get the OBD1 test.

[grayguy]

He should just buy my LINK ecu for $800 and forget this nonsense haha

[98legacygt22]

So do I have to mess with any kind of timing controller? I'm getting ej22t pistons and installing them and acl race bearings. I want to run 12-15psi and am also wondering if an safc will be able to run my car properly with that much boost.

[anothernord]

Engine management = fuel/timing control. :cool:

[98legacygt22]

Sweet, thanks. This thread is great, you guys always answer my questions no matter how dumb they may be.

[98legacygt22]

I'm getting more anxious by the day to have this done. Just ordered my ej22t pistons.

[grayguy]

My buddy blew up a 25d block w/ 22t heads on it last week, cracked a piston and bent a rod. When I asked him what he was using to tune the timing he smiled/laughed and replied "the knock sensor" lol!

So kids, don't depend on the stock knock sensor to figure it out haha

[Thomistopheles]

^ bwahahaha! Might as well have used the "let off when it pings" method :lol:

[98legacygt22]

What kind of blow off valve would you guys recommend? re-circulatory or just a regular BOV. I just need my head gaskets and head bolts and I will start putting it together! I also wonder if Gates makes a racing belt for the EJ25D and if I should use one.

[r3v_v3ng3]

Recirculating specially since the car uses maf senor

[lord flashheart]

One up on that^

Also if you use 22T pistons your compression will be dizmal witb 25D HEADS

[Garrison]

I always advocate recirculated, but if you want to sound rice go with bov, its not going to hurt anything - the time that the ecu is reading mega-rich levels (between shifts) is so short it isn't going to hurt anything. Probably will cause backfires though.

Flashheart:
Yeah, but you can run a lot more boost, so its a tossup. I tend to agree with you though that you shouldn't use 22T pistons with the 25D heads.

[98legacygt22]

Even if im at 7.5:1 I don't care but I doubt I will be, I'm thinking I'll be at around 7.8:1. I don't race so I don't need off the line power but I imagine with that low of a CR I will spool at a somewhat low rpm. I would much rather not sound like a ricer, so I will go with a re-circulatory.

[lord flashheart]

yes you can make up for it with boost, but you sacrifice some low end.
it takes fuel to make horsepower, you can calculate your max power based on your fuel injector size, number of injectors, type of fuel, BSFC, and duty cycle.

lets set the lag thing aside for now..

lets say you use the stock 280cc injectors, you are limited to roughly 210-220CHP depending on whos math your using.
now, if you do say 10:1 compression ratio, with 5lbs of boost, you will make roughly the same power as a 7.5:1CR on say 15lbs of boost.
your using the roughly the same amount of fuel (even tho real world, the BSFC is lower with a hi comp, low boost, in contrast to low comp high boost. but for all intended purposes, we will say they are the same).
so not everyone knows this but volumetric efficiency (VE) is directly related to compression ratio, which means the higher the compression ratio, the higher the VE, the higher the VE, the more air, the more air the more torque.
so at 5lbs you will probably make similar power numbers but the torque numbers are off the hook.
(ive actually done some experimenting with this.)
from my experience, ive seen, (these are rough numbers at the wheels)
same heads, cams, and roughly the same IAT, and ignition timing, just different shortblock.
a 8.5:1 2.5 on 11lbs of boost made 170ftlbs of tq and 160hp
a 9.9:1 2.5 on 5lbs of boost made 195ftlbs of tq and 160hp

we also experimented with a 2.2, and the results were more or less the same.

[98legacygt22]

Yeah you are right, I figure with the lower compression I take a lesser chance at bending or breaking something.

[anothernord]

Low compression ratios suck. Also, from a thermodynamics, the efficiency of the engine is directly related to the CR. If I were to do it again, I would build another high compression 2.5.

[Garrison]

Low compression ratios suck. Also, from a thermodynamics, the efficiency of the engine is directly related to the CR. If I were to do it again, I would build another high compression 2.5.
You're talking 9.5:1 with 7-9psi boost?

[98legacygt22]

What's your guys thought on the AEM F/IC - 6? I see there is also the AEM F/IC - 8 but the differences only seem to be stuff I probably don't need for tuning anyway.

[lord flashheart]

We did a 1.3 liter with12.5:1 on 18lbs of boost and it made like 430whp :D

[r3v_v3ng3]

Low compression ratios suck. Also, from a thermodynamics, the efficiency of the engine is directly related to the CR. If I were to do it again, I would build another high compression 2.5.
You're talking 9.5:1 with 7-9psi boost?


High compression and boost is nothing unusual. I would rather prefer it as well, it just gives you a little room to mess up. Its all in the tuning. They do this alot on the honda crowd (which i've done before). I did a turbo gsr with a 10.1 compression on 12 lbs of boost. Others had jackson racing supercharged a type r (11:1 comp) on a 9 lbs of boost (which is alot of heat).



We did a 1.3 liter with12.5:1 on 18lbs of boost and it made like 430whp :D

sounds like an rx7

[Garrison]

High compression and boost is nothing unusual. I would rather prefer it as well, it just gives you a little room to mess up. Its all in the tuning. They do this alot on the honda crowd (which i've done before). I did a turbo gsr with a 10.1 compression on 12 lbs of boost. Others had jackson racing supercharged a type r (11:1 comp) on a 9 lbs of boost (which is alot of heat).


[quote="lord flashheart":1ygchqul]We did a 1.3 liter with12.5:1 on 18lbs of boost and it made like 430whp :D

sounds like an rx7[/quote:1ygchqul]

Yeah, I was thinking something similar, the only downside to trying it on the EJ25d is the weaksauce rods and pistons. If you could figure out a way to get new equipment in there without blowing your wallet, you'd do okay; but I think that's why the phase 2 ej22 bottom-end is such an attractive option. The engine doesn't cost much and a refresh is cheap.


I was thinking the same thing :grin:
Love me some Wankel!

[lord flashheart]

The 99 "8 bolt" EJ25D uses a rear thrust and 52mm journals so u could put STI rods in it. The 48mm cranks break all the time, but the 52mm cranks are good for much more power.

The 1.3 was a hybusa. It was in a salt flat speed record car, and acording to the rules rotorys displacement is doubled because from an engineering stand point each cylinder fires twice per revolution so technically they say is a 2.6 instead of a 1.3 liter.

[lord flashheart]

The 99 "8 bolt" EJ25D uses a rear thrust and 52mm journals so u could put STI rods in it. The 48mm cranks break all the time, but the 52mm cranks are good for much more power.

The 1.3 was a hybusa. It was in a salt flat speed record car, and acording to the rules rotorys displacement is doubled because from an engineering stand point each cylinder fires twice as offen per revolution so technically they say is a 2.6 instead of a 1.3 liter.

[Garrison]

So you're recommending sti rods and pistons for a 99 EJ25D build?

[lord flashheart]

No, i was just pointing out tht the STi internals will work in the 99 EJ25D. He mentioned that the 25d rods are weak and was talking about ways to get stronger rods and pistons in it.

[Garrison]

That was me. So if you aren't advocating using sti pistons with the rods you mentioned, what are you suggesting?

[grayguy]

Here is some pics of the "knock sensor tuned" 25d/22t combo haha.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/11/Bent25d-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/11/Cracked25d-1.jpg

[lord flashheart]

Haha oh nice

I am not nessisarly advocating anyhing, budget and application is ultimately the largest determining factor. every engine has its strong points and weak points so there is an ideal engine for every application and budget. If you are dead set on boosting a ej25d and have sti components laying around then by all means. But if some one has a ej25d and wants to add some strength to the bottom end i probably wouldnt point someone in that direction. I would say get the EJ253 short block. The crank is the same as the STi crankshaft, the rods are shorter which makes the less prone to breaking at higher rpm, the only thing im not sure about is the pistons may not work with the 25d heads. And alsothe ej253 has the shittiest rod bearings of all times. Sorry dont mean to ramble. If you want to make big numbers, get an STi shortblock. If you want drivable and fun an EJ25D will get the job done. If you are on a tight budget and want to push some boost and make very good power numbers the EJ22 is an exelent choice.

[98legacygt22]

so i split my block yesterday and realized everything inside is in EXCELLENT shape.. turns out I cant use the 22T pistons as they are B's and my engine takes all A's. Now I'm wondering what I can run for boost on the stock pistons. I know you guys will probably say 8 is the limit but I plan on getting my car tuned (and running STI injectors, aftermarket fuel pump) so I think I'd be safe to let it spike to 12psi

[lord flashheart]

Depends on the compression ratio, if its a stock ej25d, then hell no8 lbs is absolute max. If its a franken motor and you have enough fuel, enough cooling (big intercooler) and a good DYNO tune you shouldnt have any problems up to around 18psi. Thats about where i dont feel comfortable with stock pistons and head bolts. If u honestly want to make some good power you should order a set of our 400 series heads. We have pushed them up and over 600hp and they have a absolutly awesome power band. They are off the hook. Its what i use on my project. Ive run the regular 25D heads and the 400 series and its night and day

[Garrison]

Not to mention it's not really the engine that's the problem, it's the drivetrain and it's desire to grenade itself if driven recklessly.

[98legacygt22]

My motor is a hybrid phase 1 EJ22E with EJ25D heads. I think I might just stick with the stock pistons or save up $600 and get forged pistons and some aftermarket rods and be able to boost the bejesus out of it.

[lord flashheart]

My motor is a hybrid phase 1 EJ22E with EJ25D heads. I think I might just stick with the stock pistons or save up $600 and get forged pistons and some aftermarket rods and be able to boost the bejesus out of it.

i wasnt sure if you had a 22 or a 25 shortblock.
rather than drop a grip of cash on rods, consider this...
the EJ257 rods are the same length, journal size, and wrist pin housing bore as the EJ22. and they shouldnt have any problems in the 500hp range. just saying and they are pretty cheap.
also, if you want forged pistons, i recommend wiseco, or JE. dont waste your money on CP or cosworth. they are super overpriced.
and as a side note.. there is a guy on this forum who works for a shop that is a authorized wiseco dealer... this individual would hook you up if you pm'd him.

[98legacygt22]

I will have to find his name and possibly order up some! but I wonder how much it costs at the machine shop to have the cylinders bored to size

[lord flashheart]

Shouldnt cost more than 200. If they charge over that they are ripping you off. Also make sure that they messue each piston and bore each cylinder accordingly. Alot of shops just bore to whatever is on the box.

[98legacygt22]

Ok I will take that into consideration. So one of you had said something about running a RRFPR and not needing a tune if it's lower boost. My turbo is from a 2003 wrx would I be able to just run wastegate boost if I use the rising rate fuel pressure regulator? I need my car back on the road.

[Garrison]

No, internal wastegate pressure on that turbo is 12psi if I remember correctly. RRFPR would help, but you'd outrun your injectors around 8psi.

Either way, no, you need and external wastegate set to your desired boost level.

[lord flashheart]

No. Tbe tdo4 is roughly 6lbs on the waste gate.
And yes a rising rate will get you to 10lbs but the raw compression is too much. 7 is about the limit for stock stuff.if you had he 22 short block i would say push it higher but the 2.5 has too much compression and too much timing in it.

[98legacygt22]

I have the 2.2 short block lol and ej25d heads but i still have the 2.5 ecu

Sent from my SCH-M828C using Tapatalk 2

[Garrison]

I'm glad you're on this board man, keep me straight.

External waste is better in every sense, but if you need it back on the road..
What are you concerned about running the 2.5 ecu? It's what I ran for mine, and it had 2.5 bottom end. The only difference is your compression ratio, and that works to your advantage anyway

[98legacygt22]

Saw this over on Nasioc and thought I would post it here just for reference

2002-2003 WRX WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.047”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~10psi

2004-2005 WRX WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.047”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~6psi

2004-2005 STi WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.043”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~10psi

2006-2007 WRX WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.028”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~6psi.

2006-2007 STi WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.0335”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~9psi

2004-2005 LGT WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.049”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~10psi

2003-2005 FXT WGDC Tables
Stock restrictor pill size = ~.047”
Factory wastegate pre-tensioned to ~7psi

[98legacygt22]

I'm glad you're on this board man, keep me straight.

External waste is better in every sense, but if you need it back on the road..
What are you concerned about running the 2.5 ecu? It's what I ran for mine, and it had 2.5 bottom end. The only difference is your compression ratio, and that works to your advantage anyway


Not really worried about the ecu, I was just wondering if that's what pulls timing for the 2.5 because if so I would swap it to a 2.2 ecu so I can run the rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I'd be happy at 10psi but I think I would need to swap out my injectors at that point.

[Garrison]

Depending on your rrfpr ratio (I.e. 4:1, 2:1) you should be golden with the factory ecu. And you need to match the ecu to the heads anyway.

But yes, the ecu would be what retards timing if knock is detected, but again, keep it under 8psi with the fuel pressure bump from the rrfpr you should be fine. Also, your comp ratio is lower so you don't have to worry as much about detonation at that boost level.

[98legacygt22]

Depending on your rrfpr ratio (I.e. 4:1, 2:1) you should be golden with the factory ecu. And you need to match the ecu to the heads anyway.

But yes, the ecu would be what retards timing if knock is detected, but again, keep it under 8psi with the fuel pressure bump from the rrfpr you should be fine. Also, your comp ratio is lower so you don't have to worry as much about detonation at that boost level.


What RRFPR would you recommend?

[Garrison]

What RRFPR would you recommend?
Depends on your boost level, but I ran 4:1 and it was super rich.
I would say 2:1 and you'd still be in the safe range.

[98legacygt22]

I'm going to turbo my 99 Legacy Brighton with single port EJ22.

Here is the parts list for my setup

Walbro 255
02 WRX up pipe, down pipe and cat-back
02 TMIC and oem bpv
02 WRX turbo
WRX crossmember
12:1 FMU
manaul boost controller
wideband o2, boost gauge and oil temp gauge

try to keep 5-6psi with out EM

just want to see that the WRX crossmember is direct bolt on or not and the turbo swaybar is really needed??

WRX crossmembers have wider control arm spots, requiring spacers, and the steering rack is different*. Get a Legacy Turbo crossmember; it's a simple bolt-on.

Ditch the aftermarket FPR. I don't know where people got the idea that those were the most awesome thing in the world to use, but it's about the most ghetto way to control your fuel possible. If you're getting a $150 wideband, you might as well get at least a S-AFC to control fuel.

I never messed with my fuel rail. If you're engine is that high-strung that a minute difference in fueling is going to hurt something, you'd need to rethink your whole tune.


So your saying I shouldn't bother with a RRFPR. My reasoning for using one is I don't have the money for a tuner or to get it tuned. Also, with me using the ej25d intake can I run ej22t injectors if I plan on staying somewhat low boost?

[98legacygt22]

nevermind... guess ej22t injectors are different than ej25d injectors

[Garrison]

An fpr is a ghetto way to control fuel, no question about it. But they work, and bang for buck they're an inexpensive way to boost your car more safely

[98legacygt22]

An fpr is a ghetto way to control fuel, no question about it. But they work, and bang for buck they're an inexpensive way to boost your car more safely

Alright cool. I want to finish this turbo build and then sell the car, pick up a 90's impreza and do the turbo build all over again. Or just finish it, save money and buy an Impreza shell to drop it into.

[grayguy]

but leggys are cooler than imps. Everyone and there uncle has a boosted GC, not a whole lot of boosted BDs

[98legacygt22]

but leggys are cooler than imps. Everyone and there uncle has a boosted GC, not a whole lot of boosted BDs


Mine is a BK =P. Well do you know where to order replacement rocker panels and replacement quarter panels? It's also starting to rust around the windows which bothers me A LOT... guess I could pull it apart and just respray it next spring then buy a full wrx swap.. and then buy a GC on the side and drop this setup into that... Ideas... Ideas. I want to drive it.. thats for sure. You think running 8-10 psi would slip my stock clutch? It's literally almost brand new.

[anothernord]

Yep, stock clutch is kinda worthless with more than 5 psi or so.

[98legacygt22]

What if I order a stage 1 or 2 pressure plate? Just can't see tossing my new clutch disk. Im going to stay at 10psi so I think the stock disk would work with just a stronger pressure plate.

Or better yet, would you guys go with a stage 1 or 2 for 8-10psi? Guess I'll drop my paycheck on one this week.

[Garrison]

#10 is what you're concerned with.


Rules thou shalt not breaketh!

#1) Always pay attention to FUEL! These motors are very thirsty because they are oversquare like our powerful domestic gashogs.

A.) get a walbro 255
B.) An RRFPR is your friend!
C.) That's enough fuel mods to handle 8psi comfortably. Don't worry about big injectors and electronics because this is still just mild boosting. The airflow isn't there to need all that extra fuel. 565s are too big!

Fuel quality is a separate issue. Subarus run lots of timing, not lots of boost. That's why bolt-on turbos were still fast on stock vehicles--they used just marginally more air with just enough fuel from a fuel pressure bump. We augmented fuel and quelled knock with charge temp reduction and plugs. Subarus respond so well to better fuel quality because of their aggressive timing curves. That also gets them in trouble with knock so quickly.

I'm the spoiled bitch that hates using unleaded gas and noodles with his fuel . I noodle with the fuel specifically because it fixes problems like knock and lets me run aggressive timing. The other 99% of you that don't have that option have different tools at your disposal.

#2) Charge temp reduction is your best friend outside of fuel quality. Most of you are still on unleaded gas. Charge temp reduction is probably weapon #1. Intercooling is a requirement, not an option. On alcohol fuel it's a different story, but for the rest of you petrolheads it's a requirement. Get a good quality intercooler!

#3) Cold plugs and a slightly tighter gap. Removing more of that heat in the combustion chamber is a good thing. Colder plugs also help top end performance. Charge cooling, low boost, and a happy compressor lets you run lots of timing SAFELY on pump gas. Colder plugs remove heat from the combustion chamber and transfer it to the cooling system. You will notice your heater running a lot warmer when in use. Cold plugs may also be a little grumpy below freezing but just until it warms up. Just dropping one heat range can reduce combustion chamber temps that much.

#4) Don't shoot for sky-high boost levels. This means don't overwork a small compressor you found in a junkyard. Stay at 8psi or less and you'll always be happy and never left stranded. A VF turbo is probably the best bang for the buck on home made combos. These engines breathe better than you think, even on older heads. You are selling your combo short with a td04. They still run hot even on a modded older motor. A 2.5-3in DP also works wonderfully. If you want to build something from scratch, then do it right.

#5) Sorting electronics can be a pain, but then again you should see a Honda swap. Where do you go with all of the options and model changes? Sometimes, the answer is nowhere. Older cars are one of the vehicles you can do that with AND get away with it! Keep the MAF in front of the compressor and everything else falls into place. Fuelling is handled mechanically and timing is left alone. Don't run a stupid boost setting and you'll drive happily. Most new WRX owners jump too quickly into the electronics. There's actually a heck of a lot of flexibility in there already, even on OBD0! 300hp on a stock ECU is a no brainer IF you know the mechanical side of things that supports it.

#6) Do not pressurize the emissions lines! Those vent tubes from the valve covers and straight out of the crankcase need to see vacuum and only vacuum. The PCV valve is fine but everything else needs to see vacuum, preferably after running into a catch-can.

#7) Specifically for superchargers.
A) 180D of belt wrap
B) Use tensioners!
C) Make sure the belt alignment is spot on.
D) Make sure the supercharger alignment is spot on. (C+D are for longevity and maintenance sake.)
E) Always use a recirc valve.
F) Relocating the TB is worth it!
G) When you add an exhaust, get ready to add fuel. Boost may drop but they get even thirstier at WOT! Instead of 2-1 on the RRFPR, you might need 4-1 or 6-1 depending. There's enough wiggle room here for <50% ethanol blends, too.

8.) Mind the little things! When you change your fuel pump, change the filter sock, too! Don't boost an engine on old spark plugs. BTW, you will go through plugs marginally faster. 100k on plugs is "possible" but isn't smart. Older Subaru engines are awful about carbon. Tune up the car before you boost it with new filters, o2 sensors, and an oil change. Make sure you have a good timing belt and pumps.

9.) Don't use an N/A Borla header on a bolt-on turbo kit. They're ok on superchargers but EQ headers are always the way to go.

10.) A stage 1 clutch will always do fine for 8psi setups. Don't do 4wd burnouts or hard launches and your clutch will be fine. Too stiff of a clutch plate kills the hydraulic clutch cylinder quicker ($300+ part).

[98legacygt22]

Thats like the holy bible of turbo-ing. You sure I couldn't push 9-10 psi? Before you say no think about my reasoning. I have the 2.2 block and am running 2.5 heads and 2.5 injectors which are more CC then the stock 2.2 injectors from what I have read. I guess the 2.5 injectors are 265 or 285cc and the 2.2 injectors were only 235cc. I talked to cometic about a head gasket and they said they need the bore diameter of my engine and what thickness I want the head gaskets to be.. which I am not sure of.

[Garrison]

That was written for stock engines, because your block is different your compression ratio is lower, which means yes, you can run more boost.

That being said, your block is still an NA block, which means the components are not built to handle the added strain of forced induction. So do I think you could run 10psi? I do actually. But all it takes is one missed shift or one hard launch and you end up lunching your transmission. I would advocate starting at like 7-8psi, and once you get things figured out, you can start dialing in more boost. 8psi on your application would be similar to 5psi on the stock EJ25. I ran 7psi, and holy shit that thing ran like a scalded dog.

Since this is your DD, I will advise you to take it easy at first and try to follow the tips found in that guide

[98legacygt22]

That was written for stock engines, because your block is different your compression ratio is lower, which means yes, you can run more boost.

That being said, your block is still an NA block, which means the components are not built to handle the added strain of forced induction. So do I think you could run 10psi? I do actually. But all it takes is one missed shift or one hard launch and you end up lunching your transmission. I would advocate starting at like 7-8psi, and once you get things figured out, you can start dialing in more boost. 8psi on your application would be similar to 5psi on the stock EJ25. I ran 7psi, and holy shit that thing ran like a scalded dog.

Since this is your DD, I will advise you to take it easy at first and try to follow the tips found in that guide

Good idea, it's not my DD yet as it's in pieces but it will be eventually. I was offered a set of EJ22T injectors by a buddy and he said he had them on his turbo ej25d setup and just had to make a bracket for them to fit. I could go that route but then I would for sure need an safc at least. I'm ordering my ACL race bearings this week, hoping my block is all within spec but Ill call the machine shop today and ask how much to have it checked out.

[anothernord]

I finally tore down my old EJ25D that blew up a year ago.

The #2 rod pretzel'd itself. This was at about 16 PSI on E85, or about 330 CHP.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_19861_zps019182b5-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_1987_zpsc54fe280-1.jpg

[Garrison]

Hahaha, holy hell!

[lord flashheart]

I finally tore down my old EJ25D that blew up a year ago.

The #2 rod pretzel'd itself. This was at about 16 PSI on E85, or about 330 CHP.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/IMG_19861_zps019182b5-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_1987_zpsc54fe280-1.jpg

yours must have been a 1999 block correct?
the older, 48mm journal usually wont hang on to 330chp.
what pistons were u using in that??

[anothernord]

It was a Phase II block (or so I thought), but the thrust was in the #5 position, so I'm not totally sure. The car had a shortblock put in before I owned. Pistons were the stock square dish kind as well, that's all I know. They weren't any obvious signs of detonation occurring, so I think the rod just gave up.

[98legacygt22]

WOW :grin: I did that when I owned my Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe.. It didn't like 21 psi

[lord flashheart]

thats impresive!

[98legacygt22]

So I realize I have posted in here probably a little too much BUT I just picked up another wagon the other day. It has a 2.5 with the start of a rod knock. I still have my turbo and header. Since I have to rebuild my motor anyway, is there a bearing company you guys would recommend IF I wanted to toss on the turbo and run say 8psi MAX with an RRFPR or whatever psi the stock injectors will hold up to? (I think it's 8psi for the EJ25D injectors). I would also pick up a stage 1 clutch kit to handle the boost. I like the feel of the heavy flywheel the car comes with so I'd just leave that in there (but go new of course)

[lord flashheart]

questions are good.
ACL are the best, but remember fixing a rod knock is a little more than just 'slap new bearings in'
its so difficult to say yes you can do this and no you cant do that.
trial and error is the best way to know what is possible.
and just run your plan past someone with more experience before hand.
i never do anything risky to my car with out running it past my boss, chris.
it just helps to have someone un-bias give feed back.

[98legacygt22]

questions are good.
ACL are the best, but remember fixing a rod knock is a little more than just 'slap new bearings in'
its so difficult to say yes you can do this and no you cant do that.
trial and error is the best way to know what is possible.
and just run your plan past someone with more experience before hand.
i never do anything risky to my car with out running it past my boss, chris.
it just helps to have someone un-bias give feed back.


Thanks, I actually picked up an EJ253 short block tonight. I'll wind up rebuilding that and maybe run some boost. I had it all planned out before I went and tried to mess with Wrx heads. I was going to upgrade my fuel pump, get a 5psi waste gate spring, RRFPR, manual boost control valve and keep it dialed in at 8psi. From what I have been told the 253 short block will stand up to boost better than the 25D. Of course I will be using my 25D heads so I don't have to mess with wiring (screw merging harnesses, that's a pain). The guy I got the 253 block from also tossed in a 10mm oil pump for free.

[Garrison]

Thanks, I actually picked up an EJ253 short block tonight. I'll wind up rebuilding that and maybe run some boost. I had it all planned out before I went and tried to mess with Wrx heads. I was going to upgrade my fuel pump, get a 5psi waste gate spring, RRFPR, manual boost control valve and keep it dialed in at 8psi. From what I have been told the 253 short block will stand up to boost better than the 25D. Of course I will be using my 25D heads so I don't have to mess with wiring (screw merging harnesses, that's a pain). The guy I got the 253 block from also tossed in a 10mm oil pump for free.


Whoa whoa, who told you that an EJ253 shortblock will stand up to boost better??
The pistons are porcelain, definitely Shit for boost. They are compatible with STI parts though, so if you intend to go that route swap in STI rods and pistons. NOW you're talking!! :smt023

[98legacygt22]

Thanks, I actually picked up an EJ253 short block tonight. I'll wind up rebuilding that and maybe run some boost. I had it all planned out before I went and tried to mess with Wrx heads. I was going to upgrade my fuel pump, get a 5psi waste gate spring, RRFPR, manual boost control valve and keep it dialed in at 8psi. From what I have been told the 253 short block will stand up to boost better than the 25D. Of course I will be using my 25D heads so I don't have to mess with wiring (screw merging harnesses, that's a pain). The guy I got the 253 block from also tossed in a 10mm oil pump for free.


Whoa whoa, who told you that an EJ253 shortblock will stand up to boost better??
The pistons are porcelain, definitely Shit for boost. They are compatible with STI parts though, so if you intend to go that route swap in STI rods and pistons. NOW you're talking!! :smt023

I wonder how much I could find the sti crank, rods and pistons for although thats a big drop in compression ratio. What yeah sti or what motor should I get STI parts from? One last thing, how do I know for sure if it's an EJ253? I can tell it's a newer style 2.5 block.

[lord flashheart]

the sti and 253 cranks are the same.
the stock rods are good for 300hp
and the pistons are fine, but they are not compatable with vary many heads.
the pan is a easy way to tell. if you dont have the pan, the pistons on the 253 have a weird partial dome thing.
the 251 is almost completely flat aside from a 6cc dish.

[98legacygt22]

the sti and 253 cranks are the same.
the stock rods are good for 300hp
and the pistons are fine, but they are not compatable with vary many heads.
the pan is a easy way to tell. if you dont have the pan, the pistons on the 253 have a weird partial dome thing.
the 251 is almost completely flat aside from a 6cc dish.

Yeah it's a 253 then, the pistons have what I'll call humps coming off of them. I'm actually going to hold off on turbo-ing and rebuild the 25D, clean the car up and sell it for near blue book price. Then buy a Subaru that's already turbo :grin: figure that's easier than trying to build my own setup.

[1-3-2-4]

[quote="lord flashheart":uqbtudcp]Yes, I bought mine new for 800 with the harness so finding one use for less shouldn't be hard. but if he lives somewhere where you have OBD2 testing he wouldn't be able to pass emissions.


They don't do OBDII testing here just sniffer.. Nor do they do visual inspections

I haven't had my stock 97 OB checked this year at all a little mix up at the DMV and they never got back to me so I'm not complaining..

IMHO emissions are a waste anyways I've seen so many cars here driving with a huge cloud of blue smoke you would of thought the car was on fire...[/quote:uqbtudcp]

I take it back.. they do the OBD II test and they check to make sure you have the cats in place.

[lord flashheart]

[quote="1-3-2-4":32xqxkkg][quote="lord flashheart":32xqxkkg]Yes, I bought mine new for 800 with the harness so finding one use for less shouldn't be hard. but if he lives somewhere where you have OBD2 testing he wouldn't be able to pass emissions.


They don't do OBDII testing here just sniffer.. Nor do they do visual inspections

I haven't had my stock 97 OB checked this year at all a little mix up at the DMV and they never got back to me so I'm not complaining..

IMHO emissions are a waste anyways I've seen so many cars here driving with a huge cloud of blue smoke you would of thought the car was on fire...[/quote:32xqxkkg]

I take it back.. they do the OBD II test and they check to make sure you have the cats in place.[/quote:32xqxkkg]

i was going to say....

[1-3-2-4]

I think I'm going to go the Turbo the Ej22E way however.

[LGTtoBE]

i just want to add that you dont need a custom oil line. this is a common misconception. the EJ25D has the oil galley plugs for your hi pressure feed and your return line. the factory EJ205 or EJ257 oil lines work perfectly, and are cheaper


Which plugs are the correct ones? I'd rather use existing provisions as often as possible instead of "creating" a place to drill and tap.

[anothernord]

i just want to add that you dont need a custom oil line. this is a common misconception. the EJ25D has the oil galley plugs for your hi pressure feed and your return line. the factory EJ205 or EJ257 oil lines work perfectly, and are cheaper


Which plugs are the correct ones? I'd rather use existing provisions as often as possible instead of "creating" a place to drill and tap.

The oil feed line is easy; you just undo the bolt that is bolted into the gallery, and put the banjo bolt and feed hard line in.

The return line is NOT drilled into the heads. You have to take the engine out (and apart, really) to drill out the blank casting for the return. That's why I suggest returning to the valve cover.

[LGTtoBE]

i just want to add that you dont need a custom oil line. this is a common misconception. the EJ25D has the oil galley plugs for your hi pressure feed and your return line. the factory EJ205 or EJ257 oil lines work perfectly, and are cheaper


Which plugs are the correct ones? I'd rather use existing provisions as often as possible instead of "creating" a place to drill and tap.

The oil feed line is easy; you just undo the bolt that is bolted into the gallery, and put the banjo bolt and feed hard line in.

The return line is NOT drilled into the heads. You have to take the engine out (and apart, really) to drill out the blank casting for the return. That's why I suggest returning to the valve cover.


Well...
My block is out and I just put the halves back together. Is it easy to locate?

[Garrison]

Well...
My block is out and I just put the halves back together. Is it easy to locate?


Here you go mate:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t140777 ... turbo.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t140777-how-convert-n-dohc-heads-turbo.html)

[wentz912]

I thought I'd stop by to ask a few questions about my turbo swap I have planned for my budget bomber.


Stock set up is 5mt with fresh clutch, and stock EJ22E


I currently have the following parts in my possession:

TD04 from an 04 FXT
TD04 from an 02-03 WRX (LOTS of shaft play, will be rebuilt for use as spare or to free up more funds)
TMIC from an 04 FXT with y pipe and BPV
TMIC from an 02-03 WRX w/o BPV
Turbo exhaust manifold from 02-03 WRX
Megan up-pipe from 02-03 WRX
Stock injectors and fuel rails/piping from 02-03 WRX
Under manifold portion of turbo inlet from 02-03 WRX

As far as I know, I still need the following:

Downpipe (have a line on a stock STI one)
Turbo Crossmember (Also have a line on an STI one, understand will need to use WRX control arm bushings due to their width.)
Turbo water pump to clear exhaust manifold
97-99 25D heads and manifold to match block bore size and drop CR to boost friendly levels
OEM EJ22E headgaskets
Miscellaneous hoses, tubing, etc for water and oil feed to turbo, PCV/IACV routing

So my questions are, am I forgetting anything? And are the EJ25D heads REALLY my best bet? I'll admit that I'm a little intimidated by the DOHC cam aspect, as well as frustrated by the spark plugs coming straight in from the sides.

I have access to a set of SOHC 2.5 heads, pretty sure they are 251's, but am not certain. Would these heads be a reasonable, simpler option? Either way I'm going to be going all the way through whatever set of heads I end up with. If the believed 251 heads are usable, which manifold, sensors and ECU would I need? I'm under the impression that using the EJ25D heads would allow me to just continue using the 2.2 ECU.

Sorry to blow up/hijack you guys' thread, but I'm getting close and am trying to iron out all the details!

[86bratman]

Don't use ej22e head gaskets, the coolant ports don't line up right with the head and you'll end up with cooling issues. The Victor Reinz ej222 gaskets are the most cost effective way to go, look them up for a 99-01 impreza.

If you're going to do a head swap the 25d will run off your existing ecu, the 251 heads will as well but cold engine idle will be garbage and you'll have a constant cel. Unless you can find an ej18 throttle body. It has the iacv built into the throttle body similar to how the 251 does, but the phase 1 ecu will run it correctly.

The only way you'll be able to use the wrx injectors is if you use the sohc heads, and a manifold from one without the air assist fuel injection. I can't swear by which models have it and which don't.

The 04 fxt intercooler won't work because of the bov location, it's right in the way of the throttle linkage. You could run an 02-05 wrx throttle body and cable because it's on the opposite side, but then that leads to shit cold start idle and cel again. The 02 intercooler will require at least "massaging" of the firewall and if I remember correctly moving the ignitor and bracket. The ignitor part may have just been on the gen 1 turbo legacy, it seems like the one on my 92 ss was bigger than my 97.

[lord flashheart]

Honestly the 25D heads are better than the 251 heads anyways

[86bratman]

I've always thought they were as well. I remember the old arguments all over nasioc saying the 251 heads flowed better because the engine had more mid range torque than the 25d. nobody gave any credit to the higher compression or ecu tuning differences between the two.

[Garrison]

I would say run the FXT intercooler and just crush the head of the BPV valve. It won't cause any difference in the operation and it'll let you keep your cruise.
the 02 is huge-mongous for the bay of an ej22, ej25 engine.

[wentz912]

So, the complications of the DOHC is well worth it for ease of availability and over all better-ness? Copy that. Do I need the manifold for those heads or does my 2.2 manifold work?

Anybody have any information on exactly what part number I will need for the HG's?

I think I like the idea of using the FXT intercooler a little better, especially since I'm not at all skerd of doing a little hammer clearancing to the BPV! Is there such a thing as a low-profile BPV/BOV that would solve the problem?

[86bratman]

You've gotta use the 25d manifold as well.

Victor Reinz # 54423 are the ones I've got in my high compression hybrid. which is the same as what you'll be doing but with eg33 pistons. They match the bore and the coolant ports on the 25d heads perfect.

[anothernord]

I believe the Phase II SOHC heads interfere with the up-pipe anyway.

And you can't run the Phase II SOHC heads off the EJ25D ECU anyway, since the cam pickups are different.

[86bratman]

Some early 251s ran phase 1 cam and crank triggers.

[wentz912]

25D heads it is then. Found a set in usable shape for $80, just gotta snag a manifold from somewhere!

Also, anybody know anything about a low pro Bob/NOV? My google search skills bring the suck.

[86bratman]

Make sure they're 97-99 heads, the 96s combustion chamber is wider than the ej22 bore.

[Garrison]

I just read through your parts list, you won't be able to run the under-manifold turbo inlet. The ej25d manifold isn't raised high enough to get the pipe underneath. You will have to make your own.

May i recommend http://www.siliconeintakes.com ?
They're who I used to build my intake, and their customer service is top notch

[lord flashheart]

I've always thought they were as well. I remember the old arguments all over nasioc saying the 251 heads flowed better because the engine had more mid range torque than the 25d. nobody gave any credit to the higher compression or ecu tuning differences between the two.

Word.
the problem with the 251 heads is the shortside radius. They dont have one lol.
the 25D has a couple draw backs like the shrouding around the valves in the combustion chamber. But if you unshroud them a bit you would be amazed at the flow increase. i honestly think if someone was willing to pay me to build a 25D the right way i could hit 240chp N/A. But unfortunatly all my customers want to build 251s instead.

[86bratman]

I believe we should have a chat sometime.

[KristjanJohann]

I have a problem with what to do with my breather lines, crank case/PCV, IACV and valve cover breathers! I've already connected them into my custom intake but the car is smoking alot of oil and I'm getting oil in my intercooler :(

[Junkie]

I just read this, I'd be interested in turboing my 99 Outback with EJ25D, 4EAT. I replaced head gaskets with FelPro late last year.

Without engine management, and stock fueling other than pump, I'm seeing 7psi as reasonable. Is this correct? Additionally, an Ebay WRX header/uppipe like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-MANIF ... c1&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-MANIFOLD-HEADER-UP-PIPE-EXHAUST-JDM-02-07-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-STI-EJ25-/170726556353?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru&hash=item27c01882c1&vxp=mtr) should clear my water pump.

Is all of this correct?

[anothernord]

The lower the safer but 7 is about the limit for the stock injectors.

Yep, that header looks fine. Same one as I used to run with the stock water pump.

As far as breathers:

IACV needs it's own line. Crank and valve cover technically be plumbed to separate ports on the intake, but the car will run with them teed together.

[BDAlex95]

As far as breathers:

IACV needs it's own line. Crank and valve cover technically be plumbed to separate ports on the intake, but the car will run with them teed together.

Sorry to bring up a dead thread, I just finished building my hybrid with a vf11 on it and I'm having idling issues. You said that the IACV needs it's own line to the intake, but in your picture it looks like you've got all the lines tee'd into each other. I have all the lines tee'd into each other and kept getting a CEL for the IAC. Should I try and reroute my lines to have the IACV seperate from the PCV and crank vent? I can get a picture of my routing later if that would help.