BH GT wagon vs. '00 Volvo V70R vs. B5 A4 1.8Tqm Avant

[peugoby]

Hey Guys,
Its been a very long time. I'm still DD'ing my silver BK wagon since I sold the SS.

I got an amazing new job as a regional sales & tech rep for a great company. I am driving a lot and saving up some money. My job requires me to carry a lot of samples & product around with me. I'm really not an SUV type of guy nor do I want a car that averages less than low 20's for how much I'm driving. I need an AWD car that can safely take me on long road trips reliably.

I've pretty much narrowed it down to these three cars that all address what I need out of an excellent daily driver. I'd jump on the Volvo this instant (2.5l 265hp) but am turned off that its the only choice that isn't offered with a manual transmission.

Keep maintenance costs out of the equation. I know this is a Subaru forum where most everyone will be biased towards such but really think about the other options. Each of these would receive some mods, but nothing extreme.

Here is what I'm contemplating:
The Audi may be the all around winner with an excellent chassis and great engine (IMO) 1.8T that takes to mods very well.
The Subaru is the slowest by a bit, but also the most reliable & more than likely has the cheapest cost of ownership.
The Volvo is the fastest with 265hp 5 speed automatic and a solid AWD system. It also has the best seats and most refined (quiet, spacious)

[MRLancaster]

I love all three, but I'd most likely end up with the Volvo. It sucks we didnt get the tubro BH's over here, otherwise I would have def voted for that. lol Its disappointing the legacy got shafted over here.

[02_Legacy]

If you are worried about cost of driving you need to take into account that the Volvo and Audi are both going to require premium fuel while the Subaru does not. If you are going to be driving alot that can make a big difference.

[SativaMan04]

Why not look into the 05 Leggy WAgon's? 5sp, Turbo, Leather, GPS, Huge Moonroof! Classy, Comfortable, FAst!

I would get one, but I cant Spend 10-15 grand for one, So I gotta 5 Grand BH. Plus I love the BH ASS!!

[peugoby]

A few dollars a fill up difference won't break me. I've had to buy premium in most my cars


Why not look into the 05 Leggy WAgon's? 5sp, Turbo, Leather, GPS, Huge Moonroof! Classy, Comfortable, FAst!

I would get one, but I cant Spend 10-15 grand for one, So I gotta 5 Grand BH. Plus I love the BH ASS!!

I have about a $7,000 budget, leaving the '05+ LGT out of my budget unfortunately.

[SativaMan04]

That was my problem as well. I look at it this way in 3-5 years or so they might cost around 7-10 grand.

we'll get it then!!

[ouch1011]

I was very, very, very close to buying a B5 S4 a while back, but decided against it. I know you said not to consider repair costs, but if you are talking about European cars, you have to consider repair costs, because they are going to be much, much higher than most American or Japanese cars. On any of the B5 VWs, several engine repairs, including timing belt, water pump, thermostat (on the V6), alternator, starter, AC compressor, radiator, all require you to do this...

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/audiservicemodesmall-1.jpg

Its not hard to do after you've done it several times, but it adds considerable cost to your repair bills, and considerable down time if you do it yourself.

Volvos are considerably more reliable and better built than VWs, but they have a lot of the same problems. They use all specialty fluids, they have pretty notorious problems with the tranmission coolers leaking coolant into the trans fluid and destroying the trans (Volvo actually requires a glycol test to be done on all the trans fluid for vehicles receiving a factory reman transmissions or they won't honor the warranty on the new one), and they are generally hard to work on because almost all of them cram either a I5 or I6 with one or two turbos, mounted transversely under the hood, so its very, very cramped.

I was in a very similar situation to you a couple years ago, and I chose the Subaru FWIW. If cost of ownership wasn't an issue, I'd choose the Volvo, but to be blunt, if you buy a car without considering the cost of fixing it when it breaks, especially one that is 10+ yrs old, you're an idiot.

[mike-tracy]

I'd say subaru: go with what you're comfortable living with and working on every day. The other two will make you buy all kinds of specialty tools, and as above mentioned, the expense of maintenance and downtime will be higher. If you really want a turbo car, why not another SS as a plaything/black pit of modding dollars :grin: ?

[Huffer]

It's a work car. You want it to be cheap to run and maintain. This means low horse power, easy to drive in unfamiliar territory (auto) and no modding of your work car. You need it to be tip-top reliable. Save your modding pennies for your future projects.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I need an AWD car that can safely take me on long road trips reliably.




Keep maintenance costs out of the equation.

No, I refuse. The Audi is going to be a money pit compared to the Subaru in terms of maintenance. If you're trying to save money, it isn't the way to go. The engine is good, it's been around forever, but the rest of the car has expensive parts (to replace) that just don't last as long. The Volvo should be a lot better, so if you want the turbo, go with that, but an N/A engine car will almost always be more reliable, especially since it's Japanese.

My big concern for the Subaru is that the headgaskets have been updated. If they have, you should be golden.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of those cars, and if money was no issue, I'd have the Audi in an instant.

[Dead91silvia]

I've worked on Audi's and Volvo's... They are not mechanic friendly at all. If for some reason you need to remove a wheel liner, your drilling rivets. Like someone else said about Audi, you need to rip the whole car apart just to do something simple.

I can do a 2.5 timing belt and water pump in under 2 hours. Good luck with that on a Volvo or Audi/VW... There are more specialty German and Swedish mechanics out there for a reason. I had a customer want to bring her S60 in for some work and turned it down because I looked to see the work that needed to be done. All the tools are different for all three cars. Subaru is simple and uses the same tools for any Jap car on the planet.

Alll are nice cars for sure, but if your working on it yourself and are thinking about cost, stick with Subaru. I have for a long time wanted a Volvo S60R, but I keep looking to see the PITA they are to work on and the parts are NOT cheap. I also love the way S4 drive, but then again, I have worked on them and hate it with a passion.

[peugoby]

I just drove a 2000 V70R today. I was very impressed, and am having ipd (Rallitek) do a pre purchase inspection. It had the timing belt and water pump done less than 20k miles ago. Its being offered at an excellent price but the pre inspection will tell me a lot.

I appreciate everyone's insight & thoughtful posts so far

[jey]

If you want something faster than the BH you could easily pick up a WRX wagon for less than $7k. I'm assuming it would be big enough since the A4 is on your list.

[peugoby]

If you want something faster than the BH you could easily pick up a WRX wagon for less than $7k. I'm assuming it would be big enough since the A4 is on your list.

They have the highest insurance costs of any of the cars listed. It was about $35 more per month over the A4 or V70R & I have a clean driving record. Its also really hard to find a clean titled WRX around here with average mileage/ condition for less than 8K.
I feel like they should be more affordable then they are which is a shame.

[Wiscon_Mark]

It's worse around here. Any WRX under 10,000 dollars has almost 200,000 miles on it. Even the 02s.