5MT Transmission swap!!! BD/BK/BG 5MT -> BE/BH 5MT

[chuckthefuk]

I don't know what it is with these damn 3rd generation 00-04 legacy transmissions but they seem to develop crippling issues.

I have two friends with a somewhat identical 00/01 GT 4.11
Issues:
- 3/4/5 gear pops out during deceleration
- extreme whine/vibration
- center diff explodes from vibration

So I have gone through hell and back trying to obtain solid facts/photos/info about swapping a older legacy generation 2 transmission into a generation 3.

After hours on end I finally received a "go ahead" from the man himself "JoeT"

FACT! -> All Subaru 5MT " TY75*********** " transmissions are interchangeable
Source-> http://spda-online.ca/modules/tinyconte ... tc_28.html (http://spda-online.ca/modules/tinycontent/rewrite/tc_28.html)

FACT! -> ALL Subaru 5MT/6MT use similar style VSS (Variable Speed Sensors aka Speedometer Sensor)
FACT! -> ALL Subaru 5MT/6MT VSS can be interchanged. YOU MUST USE THE VSS FOR YOUR GENERATION BODY HARNESS!
FACT! -> ALL Subaru 5MT linkages can be interchanged.
FACT! -> Pre-98 5MT use 4x bolts on the bell housing. 98+ use 8x bolts. No matter either will work.


So here's the combination of items I used and the info break down with some pics ;-D

Transmission:
Original -> US Legacy GT MY01-02 TY754VCBDA 1.000 4.111 Viscous (4kgf) Open
Donor -> US Legacy GT MY97 TY752VACBA 1.000 4.111 Viscous (4kgf) Open

Note
Pre 98 transmissions use 4 bolts in the bell housing.
Post 98 transmissions use 8 bolts in the bell housing.
--> Makes no difference.. bolt and go!

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/482/20110614185916.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5509/20110614185950.jpg http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6125/20110614185937.jpg

Variable Speed Sensor (VSS)
- The 01' VSS had be installed into the 97' in order for the 01' harness to connect to the 97' unit.
-> Simply unscrew and reinstall.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

01'
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6573/20110614190042.jpg

97'
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7351/20110614190036.jpg


Linkage:
Installed 01' Linkage onto 97' Transmission or vice versa..
--> The linkage update made the 97' feel like the 01'. If anyone has ever driven 02' GD or 00' BE/BH then you will understand.

Driveshaft/Propeller Shaft:
Installed a 97' Legacy driveshaft into the 97' trans connected to the 01' 4.11 R160.
-> Yokes are the same
-> Bolt pattern is the same
-> Center bearing hanger mount is in the same place and use the same bolts
-> The gen 2 is very different then the gen 3 but dimensions and installation are identical. \

Gen 3
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/366495019901png-1.jpg

Gen 2
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/366494919901png-1.jpg

Clutch/Flywheel/Pressure Plate/Slave Cyl/Release bearing/Fork
- Clutch/Flywheel/Pressure Plate/Slave Cylinder are 01' units.
- Release bearing and clutch fork are 97' units.

Axles
- Used original 01' BE axles with 97' unit.
-> Same jazz ... pop out the pin pull the axle out your good.
NOTE: some BE/BH use axles that have the abs ring on axles instead of the spindle.. be sure to check if your attempting to use gen 2 axles.

Standard Subaru trans/gear oil... turn her over.. off you we go..

Anyways I hope this gives someone hope for their stupid expensive gen 3 tranny.. BD/BK/BG's are so damn cheap that you can usually buy the whole car for the cost of 1 used BE/BH tranny :-D

Back to work i go before I get fired :-D


---- Update ---

Below are pictures of another transmission swap.

Original: 2000 Legacy GT 4.11
Donor: 1998 Legacy GT 4.11

Same deal..
98' LGT 4.11
98' clutch fork / release bearing
00' clutch/flywheel/pressure plate/pilot bearing .. This is Bataru's car he has an upgraded Bully Stage 2 clutch.. easy peasy..
00' driveshaft/propeller shaft!
98' JDM STi v.5 shifter & linkage
Group N tranny mount

fill'er up and go!


http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5092/dsc0328jz.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9659/dsc0329zg.jpg
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/6793/dsc0330im.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8445/dsc0332q.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9526/dsc0333xe.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2668/dsc0334iz.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/225/dsc0335al.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5669/dsc0336t.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8228/dsc0338mm.jpg
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7694/dsc0339jj.jpg
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1502/dsc0340o.jpg

-Chuck

[Huffer]

You are so darn smart. Great info!

[chuckthefuk]

Updated .. added axle info.

[Dead91silvia]

Dude! Thats freaking awesome! I do a ton of Subaru work for one of my whole sale customers! He will be stoked to know about this since he's doing a lot of 3rd gen cars now!

I know you most likely said this in there, but I may have miss read it... The output shaft will need the older style yoke, correct? If this is the case, could you use the BD/BG/BK front half drive line and the rear half of the BE/BH and couple them at the carrier bearing? Or use the complete 2nd gen?

Like I said, I may have read right over it and not comprehended it, forgive my dyslexia...

[chuckthefuk]

We used the entire driveshaft from a BD/BK and it bolted nicely to the BE/BH R160 diff.

IIRC you should be able to swap COMPLETE drivelines from any 90+ subaru.

The front shafts should be the same as the older generations but I have "heard" that some axles have the ABS ring instead of the spindle/hub. So double check this since I could not confirm it and we used the original 01' BE axles on the 97' 5MT.

-Chuck

[chuckthefuk]

*update* at bottom of first post.

00 driveshaft in a 97 trans.

Sti linkage and shifter on the 97 trans in a 00 legacy

[TGX4776]

did the linkage make a huge difference?

[chuckthefuk]

YES!

If you've driven a GD impreza or a BE legacy then you will understand. OEM vs OEM you go from rowing gears to wrist shifting.

With a short throw shifter installed it goes from wrist shifting to finger shifting.

GC/BD upper linkage -> http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/35041AC110/
GD/BE upper linkage -> http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/35041AE010/

-Chuck

[rougeben83]

lol, does that mean my old shift linkage is an upgrade part for the Gen 2 cars? I shouldn't have thrown it out then :p

[chuckthefuk]

Funny how OEM upgrades are discovered :-D

-Chuck

[89bk]

Wow, this is really amazing and cool! Thanks for all the info and pics!!!

I do have one question I wanted to make sure of: Can a second gen AT complete drivetrain be swapped into a first gen turbo Legacy? (I know the first gen turbo Legacy FD is 3.90 and the second gen Legacy FD is 4.11 but if everything is swapped over it should work, correct?)

[chuckthefuk]

Wow, this is really amazing and cool! Thanks for all the info and pics!!!

I do have one question I wanted to make sure of: Can a second gen AT complete drivetrain be swapped into a first gen turbo Legacy? (I know the first gen turbo Legacy FD is 3.90 and the second gen Legacy FD is 4.11 but if everything is swapped over it should work, correct?)


Physically yes it will fit. However since I am a 5/6MT guy and know really nothing about 4EAT i would like to point out a few issues that I foresee

- TCS (Traction control System ECU)
- ABS sensors
- Shifter tree (cluster, shifter)
- DUTY solenoid.
- Transmission diff must match rear diff! 4.11 -> 4.11 otherwise it will bind!

Maybe another member can chime in but if possible can you start a new thread or search for the topic. This is stricly 5MT swaps for guys who have grenaded their transmissions in a gen 3.

-Chuck

[89bk]

Wow, I really feel like a dunce right now. I know I was reading about 5MTs and somehow my mind went into the automatic (AT) mode. Everyone, I'm sorry about my post.

And Chuck, THANKS for being a gentleman and not blasting me. And, yes, I will do some searching but I think I already know what the answer is going to be.

[Garrison]

You know what this mean for the H6 crowd, right? If you have a 00-04 H6, you can now have a manual, instead of the mandatory factory 4eat.

Does that mean, Chuck, that you have a spare 5mt mount just hanging out?

[Wiscon_Mark]

A little note for the linkage fact: You'll need the full linkage to swap from an older shifter to a newer shifter and vice versa. I found that there was a revision (in 96 or 97?) to the shifter that changed the link to the shifter from a fork design to a shaft through the shifter itself, and the ball on the bottom of the shifter is a different size too.

Old Linkage:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/08/IMG_5638-1.jpg

Newer style shifter:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/08/DSCF2505-1.jpg

Luckily, most transmissions come with that linkage, so it's no problem, especially with the whole assembly out. I swapped mine out after ruining my stock assembly having to work around the exhaust and transmission itself. Fun!

[chuckthefuk]

You know what this mean for the H6 crowd, right? If you have a 00-04 H6, you can now have a manual, instead of the mandatory factory 4eat.

Does that mean, Chuck, that you have a spare 5mt mount just hanging out?


Well this is really nothing new.. There have been many "random" members from all over who swapped 6MT into their SVX and OB H6.

However the "vague" info on what pins to ground out to prevent the factory ECU from looking for the TCS ECM.

-Chuck

[alexandermf]

so would a 98 rs tranny be a direct swap onto my 99 bd?

[chuckthefuk]

Most likely .. check the chart to make sure its the same final drive as yours and that its the same clutch style.
-Chuck

[alexandermf]

thnx chuck, looked it up and it all looks good to me.. just one more question. you were telling me to grab pre 98 tranny from a legacy, but is it the same quality if its from 98rs? cuz i dont want the same crappy tranny my 99 has

[chuckthefuk]

From the chart codes

98' RS = 98' LGT / OB
99-01' RS = 99' LGT / OB

[tylerkroh]

i have an 00 lgt and to my knowledge to swap in a 98 5mt all i need is to swap the vss, the 98 release bearing, and clutch fork correct?

[chuckthefuk]

Nope just the vss.

You can reuse all the original 5MT items OR use the newer 5MT items OR mix n match.

If you are going this far into a swap you should check out the TSK1 Snout Repair Kit = http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/shop/pc/v ... ategory=92 (http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1793&idcategory=92)

Cheers.

[Wiscon_Mark]

x1000. That throwout bearing will go bad quickly if you don't use the snout kit. It's annoying.

[nikolaus.conrad]

How does one unscrew the vehicle speed sensor on the transmission? I can't seem to get a wrench on it. :-(

[chuckthefuk]

its a bitch..... you may break it in the process..

visegrips work just be gentle.

[nikolaus.conrad]

I'll be sure to use extreme caution, Thanks Chuck!

[Shane01BH]

Is this speed sensor the same on automatics? Is there a way to swap my outback sensor with a LGT, mine is way off since putting on smaller diameter tires.

[chuckthefuk]

I don't believe you can do either.

There are devices that intercept the VSS signal and allows you to make - or + changes to the speedo. Off the top of my head I cant think of any but I have seen them.

[anothernord]

So I have a 3.9 5mt from a 98' OBS in my 97' Legacy OB. I went to put in a new driveshaft from a 97' outback (5mt), and found that the flanges on the diff were not compatible (different hole spacing). I tried swapping my old rear half to the new shaft but those flanges were different too.

Will the newer BE/BH shafts bolt up instead?

[chuckthefuk]

OBS is a IMPREZA. OB is a Legacy. The length is different.

Did you miss type or is that correct? if its correct then i cant help you since its a impreza driveshaft.

I have performed the above swap 5 times to date and none of them where Outbacks. Sorry but I only know what I have worked on :-(

[anothernord]

Yep, OBS=outback sport Impreza. And I have an OB, or should it be LOB? I have no idea what the 3.9 rear diff is from, but it's flange does not match an Outback driveshaft.

And come on, Chuck. You're the big man on the forum these days. ;)

Edit: Apparently I'm an OG now. I guess I should know these things.

[chuckthefuk]

Coming from someone who supercharged and then turbocharged his Outback you should know more then me :-D I am big but not that big.. well sorta size wise.

Anyways you can always swap out the flange from the diff itself to make things work. Lots of guys do this for various reasons.

I am just confused how u r trying to use a shorter driveshaft. even if its only half of it.

And no.. OBS and OB. its plain jane business.

[anothernord]

I'm trying to put the Outback driveshaft on my... Outback! The length is right, but the flange is wrong. Anyway, I'll keep searching.

[JBCLEGACY]

To the guys asking questions, and Chuck for answering and starting this whole thread, THANK YOU..!!
I'm going through this very problem right now, and I'm finding answers here.
I don't often post, feel out of place, more of a lurker, but I have to express the gratitude:
Thanks for this simple thread, you guys just got me out of a jam!!

[chuckthefuk]

This is why I do what I do. Thank you for speaking out and thanks to all who are not afraid to question me / call me out on a mistake or misunderstanding.

I am very happy to hear JBCLEGACY found this thread and others to be useful :-D Don't lurk.. contribute to the community even if its just a "hey thats cool"

Online forums need active members :-D

As always! Cheers
-Chuck

[JBCLEGACY]

Noted... :smt023

Expanding the search for an RS trans this week, just wish people would respond to messages...

Thanks again!

[Perkul8r]

Sorry to bump an older thread, just looking for some info.

01 Outback, wrx 5MT and rear diff...

Can I use the 95-99 outback manual trans driveshaft? 00-04 are hard to come by where I live. However, 95-99's are plentiful around me.

Thanks.

[chuckthefuk]

Yes sir. same length and bolt pattern.

Style of hanger and shaft setup is different but works fine. We're running a 96' LGT 4EAT shaft in a 2003 LGT.. no issues. even for 5MT

[Perkul8r]

Yes sir. same length and bolt pattern.

Style of hanger and shaft setup is different but works fine. We're running a 96' LGT 4EAT shaft in a 2003 LGT.. no issues. even for 5MT


Awesome...Thanks for the info. :smt023

[JBCLEGACY]

Hey Chuck, guess what..?
EJ20 turbo is in the Legacy and running like a champ!
Now I have to deal with a pesky crunchy 4.11 5spd trans, too loud to hear my new spooling sounds, so I'm thinking; all these extra parts in my garage, will the 3.90 from my 1992 Legacy turbo go in? Should, but the clutch throw is different.. any advice here? Or should I just call the good guys at SevenAutomotive for a quote on installing the trans for me this week??

[chuckthefuk]

I am one of those guys lol . Your a funny guy! Ty told me he spoke to you at the meet .. I just missed you as I got there
Bataru told me he had a chat with you :) Although now that I think about it I did drop a sticker on your car. What was Dans solution to the cam gears? And sure drop the turbo ss trans and lsd diff (3.90) and use the slave off the turbo trans or order up a wrx 02-05 slave . Email me for more info.

[JBCLEGACY]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2014/04/IMAG0475_zpslbdkvjci-1.jpg

Got it, thanks!

[JBCLEGACY]

Dan found some wrx cam gears, slipped on, no issues..
The engine has been performing increasingly well over the last week.
The idle has stabilized, fuel consumption is getting better, and throttle response is picking up too.

Thanks for all the help throughout the process!

[Regardie]

Sorry that I got confused reading through this thread but what is the preferred shifter linkage combination? I have a BE Legacy GT with the 4.11 FD that the center diff went bad so I replaced it with a 99 RS 5MT FD 4.11 using the original shifter linkage. What would the upgrade path be for the shifter?

Plus has anyone ever seen a good teardown of a 5MT posted anywhere? I have seen a center diff swap posted and I am considering doing that to my old 5MT before selling it, but a whole teardown / rebuild i have not been able to find. Everyone just points to the procedure in the FSM and says you shouldn't try this at home.

[chuckthefuk]

Shifter is based off the linkage you use. If you wish to use the 99RS then you will need a shifter compatible for the narrow style shifter.

Upgrading back to the BE GT linkage is much nicer.

Currently no thorough transmission tear down.

[Bookem]

Plus has anyone ever seen a good teardown of a 5MT posted anywhere? I have seen a center diff swap posted and I am considering doing that to my old 5MT before selling it, but a whole teardown / rebuild i have not been able to find. Everyone just points to the procedure in the FSM and says you shouldn't try this at home.

I have a junk wrx trans I have been meaning to do this with, just keep getting too many projects put in front of that. If you have a particular step you need info on I might be able to do a quick note on for you.

[Regardie]

Shifter is based off the linkage you use. If you wish to use the 99RS then you will need a shifter compatible for the narrow style shifter.

Upgrading back to the BE GT linkage is much nicer.

Currently no thorough transmission tear down.

I stayed with the GT shifter assembly. I have never driven a 2nd gen 5MT with the other style shifter so I don't have any experience to compare it to.

What don't you like about the 00 5MT? Mine was not in the best shape when I got the car, compounded with a cheap Chinese knock off clutch. The 99 RS 5MT and Exedy clutch I have now seem to be a nice combination.

[chuckthefuk]

Honestly I've used everything from a 95 5MT to a 04 5MT from various models. 4.11 OBK .. 4.11 GT. 4.44 JDM STI .. 3.90 L .. they all respond the same way besides the gearing and final drive. The older linkage style is much longer when referring to throw for the shifter so any given moment I can upgrade to 02+ Imp or 00+ Lego linkage for an 95-99 Lego or 93-01 Imp I do not hesitate and convert.

With regards to clutch discs its hard to say as all clutches will have different amounts of material on them when used so its hard to say. I only use Exedy OE replacements for all my customers and friends unless a high torque application is required (although 90% of the time an exedy friction disc is still used)

All the best

[akcel]

I have a 00 Legacy GT wagon, recently my driveshaft tore apart at the u joint. I thought that all subaru 5MT should fit as a replacement. i picked one up from a local guy, but it was significantly shorter(im thinking it was auto or 6 spd).

my question: should any subaru 5MT driveshaft fit for my needs? IE wrx, rs, older legacy. these are more available than 5spd BE ones

[nepbug]

I have a 00 Legacy GT wagon, recently my driveshaft tore apart at the u joint. I thought that all subaru 5MT should fit as a replacement. i picked one up from a local guy, but it was significantly shorter(im thinking it was auto or 6 spd).

my question: should any subaru 5MT driveshaft fit for my needs? IE wrx, rs, older legacy. these are more available than 5spd BE ones

You need a bd/bg or be/bh 5mt legacy drive shaft. Impreza or Forester won't be the right length and Outback will have the wrong center carrier bearing.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[akcel]

You need a bd/bg or be/bh 5mt legacy drive shaft. Impreza or Forester won't be the right length and Outback will have the wrong center carrier bearing.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

what about bp/bl?

[nepbug]

what about bp/bl?

I don't know for sure, but would lean towards no. There might be some length measurements out there somewhere you could use to check, or maybe even in the FSM. I've got personal experience mixing generations between BD/BG and BE/BH though and know that for certain.

[akcel]

cool thanks, just found a BH shaft on ebay so that should do it