Rebuilding EJ251 - anything 'special'?

[danci1973]

Hi,

I have an EU spec'd 1999 Legacy BH with a EJ251 engine that has a couple of issues:

1. A loud 'clacking' noise when the engine is started cold / after a long stop. If I start / stop / restart, the noise isn't there the 2nd time.
2. A 'clacking' noise at certain RPM range (2500-3000) when the engine is 'unloaded' (just maintaining speed on a straight road - goes away if I accelerate / decelerate).

I contribute both 1 and 2 to worn or damaged main and/or rod bearings.

3. It's using quite a bit of oil (by the usual Subaru standards) - have to refill about 1 liter / 1000km. There are no external leaks (I resealed the engine about 60000km ago when I replaced the head gaskets due to false diagnosis of the dealership experts). Unfortunately I didn't think about replacing the valve shaft seals then, which are a possible culprit... :(

So the question is - what's involved in replacing main and rod bearings? I suppose pulling the engine out is a must, but what else?

What gaskets, seals, ... stuff does one need to put it back together?

Any special tools?

D.

[Huffer]

You're looking at a full rebuild kit. To get to the main bearing aka crankshaft, you're splitting the block.

It's really not worth it unless you're planning on doing some additional work - it'll be cheaper to find a lower-mileage used engine and drop that in.

[chuckthefuk]

You have no idea if the block has been damaged by the rods/bearing..

The best and only method is to have a trained machinist look at your block.. I am not saying get them to rebuild it but at least they can hot tank the block and inspect it for signs of wear and tear.

But Huff has a good point.

Your so close to Japan and I am sure JDM importers are a dime a dozen in your area which would give you lots of options from $700 EJ25 N/A to maybe a Turbo front clip :-D

- Chuck

[danci1973]

You're looking at a full rebuild kit. To get to the main bearing aka crankshaft, you're splitting the block.

It's really not worth it unless you're planning on doing some additional work - it'll be cheaper to find a lower-mileage used engine and drop that in.
What is so expensive about a rebuild?

I mean - the cheapest engine I could find on eBay.co.uk was £1999 (~ $2300). That's not even including transport from UK to Slovenia, which probably adds another $300. There's one on eBay.de (Germany) for €1099 (~ $1600), but it has the same mileage mine does (~195000km), which makes it kinda pointless as I can't tell the state that engine is in.

Admittedly I may be unaware of everything that goes into rebuild, that's why I'm asking.

Here's a list of things I think I need for a rebuild:
A full gasket set with head bolts - about $160
Main bearings set - about $110
Rod bearings set - about $110
Piston rings set - about $130

We're at $510 (that's including shipping, but not eventual customs and tax) currently.

So what else is there that needs replacing?


You have no idea if the block has been damaged by the rods/bearing..

The best and only method is to have a trained machinist look at your block.. I am not saying get them to rebuild it but at least they can hot tank the block and inspect it for signs of wear and tear.

But Huff has a good point.

Your so close to Japan and I am sure JDM importers are a dime a dozen in your area which would give you lots of options from $700 EJ25 N/A to maybe a Turbo front clip
I'm about as close to Japan as you are - about 10000km... Unfortunately no $700 engines around here... :(

D.

[Huffer]

Time is a factor. Plus missing parts or parts that you might need that no-one thinks to tell you about, which causes additional delay in the event that you have to wait for the part to be shipped in. Or ordering the wrong part - like a timing belt tensioner.

If the car is sold in your country, surely there must be a dismantler or used parts yard that would have access to a used engine.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it's not as easy as walking down the grocery store and buying parts off the shelf.

[chuckthefuk]

You forgot

-Idler pulleys and sprockets.
-Timing belt
-Timing belt tensioner
-Waterpump
-Accessory belts.


Anyways...

I don't know how common Subaru Legacy's are in your region but usually you can buy a rust bucket with low mileage and just use it for parts.

-Chuck

[danci1973]

Time is a factor. Plus missing parts or parts that you might need that no-one thinks to tell you about, which causes additional delay in the event that you have to wait for the part to be shipped in. Or ordering the wrong part - like a timing belt tensioner.

If the car is sold in your country, surely there must be a dismantler or used parts yard that would have access to a used engine.

I've been looking for a suitable engine for quite a while now and a good, low-milega used engine at a nice price would be my 1st choice.

But $2300 sounds like a lot for an engine I can't even test / hear running before it's installed in my car.

That's why I'm considering a rebuild in the first place.


I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it's not as easy as walking down the grocery store and buying parts off the shelf.
Oh, that I'm aware of. :)

To put things in context - Subaru sells about 150 cars a year in Slovenia (some recent year even under 100). A lot have been imported 2nd hand from other parts of Europe (mainly Germany and Italy), but these are mostly fairly high-mileage cars.

Unless I stumble upon a really good deal on a Legacy BP I'll probably go ahead rebuilding this one.

I don't need to do it right-away either... :)

D.

[ouch1011]

You're looking at a full rebuild kit. To get to the main bearing aka crankshaft, you're splitting the block.

It's really not worth it unless you're planning on doing some additional work - it'll be cheaper to find a lower-mileage used engine and drop that in.
What is so expensive about a rebuild?

I mean - the cheapest engine I could find on eBay.co.uk was £1999 (~ $2300). That's not even including transport from UK to Slovenia, which probably adds another $300. There's one on eBay.de (Germany) for €1099 (~ $1600), but it has the same mileage mine does (~195000km), which makes it kinda pointless as I can't tell the state that engine is in.

Admittedly I may be unaware of everything that goes into rebuild, that's why I'm asking.

Here's a list of things I think I need for a rebuild:
A full gasket set with head bolts - about $160
Main bearings set - about $110
Rod bearings set - about $110
Piston rings set - about $130

We're at $510 (that's including shipping, but not eventual customs and tax) currently.

So what else is there that needs replacing?


You have no idea if the block has been damaged by the rods/bearing..

The best and only method is to have a trained machinist look at your block.. I am not saying get them to rebuild it but at least they can hot tank the block and inspect it for signs of wear and tear.

But Huff has a good point.

Your so close to Japan and I am sure JDM importers are a dime a dozen in your area which would give you lots of options from $700 EJ25 N/A to maybe a Turbo front clip
I'm about as close to Japan as you are - about 10000km... Unfortunately no $700 engines around here... :(

D.

You haven't factored in machine shop costs. Also if the noise is a bearing knock, the crank will likely need replaced. Labor costs on machining a subaru block are higher than others due to the flat design and the complication involved in removing the pistons/rods. You also haven't factored in anything for the heads, which will likely need some service. Also nothing about the timing belt, water pump, idlers, spark plugs, etc. You are missing a lot of costly things related to rebuilding an engine.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with rebuilding an engine. The EJ257 I have for my car is going to be getting rebuilt here shortly. But I think you are being unrealistic about the cost involved.

[danci1973]

Ok, so right now I have this:


A full gasket set with head bolts - about $160[/*:m:2b808nms]
Main bearings set - about $110[/*:m:2b808nms]
Rod bearings set - about $110[/*:m:2b808nms]
Piston rings set - about $130[/*:m:2b808nms]
Idler pulleys and sprockets + timing belt + tensioner (set)- about $275 *[/*:m:2b808nms]
Waterpump - about $150 *[/*:m:2b808nms]
Accessory belts - about $30 *[/*:m:2b808nms]
machining the heads - about $100 **[/*:m:2b808nms]

* these are 'maintenance' items and would have to be done sooner or later, so they're not directly 'rebuild' cost.
** this has been done not so long ago when head gaskets have been replace (due to bad diagnosis)

A new crank with bearing set is about $1200...

Maybe it's better I start saving up for a whole new car... I like this one a lot, but invest more then 1/2 of what it's worth - I don't think so.

D.

[chuckthefuk]

machining the heads - about $100 **[/*:m:2rz8zp2d]


:shock: :shock: :shock: Where did you find someone to inspect, machine and assemble heads for $100?

Your also missing the "new revised" Oil Seperator Plate / Plate of Doom which is next to the rear main seal. Its around $86 depending on dealer..

Have you thought about buying a rusted subaru with a healthy engine and just parting it out?

-Chuck

[danci1973]

machining the heads - about $100 **[/*:m:1mb6nvts]

:shock: :shock: :shock: Where did you find someone to inspect, machine and assemble heads for $100?

When I was replacing the head gaskets I also had the heads 'done' - it was less then $100. Maybe that was just 'straightening' (is that called milling?) and they didn't need to remove the valves?

When I was fixing a Peugeot diesel engine, the 'head job' it was just about $100 - this time I know all the valves had to come out.



Your also missing the "new revised" Oil Seperator Plate / Plate of Doom which is next to the rear main seal. Its around $86 depending on dealer..

It has been replaced when I replaced the clutch, along with the rear main seal. The old plate was plasting, I think. The new one is metal.



Have you thought about buying a rusted subaru with a healthy engine and just parting it out?

I have, but I somehow doubt a rusted Subaru will have a much healthier engine. I was also looking at crashed Subarus, but none are 'low-mileage' - in fact, most have higher mileage then my car (or is supposed to have as I also bought this one used).

That's also why I'm doubtful about used engines - how can I know it's really low-mileage and in good state? It would be a bummer to find out the 'new' used engine is just as bad as my current one...

D.

[jewbaru]

i just had a similar problem. had my heads machined, and rebuilt, and bought a short block from the dealer and a full gasket set

idk where your gettin a full gasket set AND head bolts for 160, gasket set alone was over 200 at the dealer, let alone the bolts.

money adds up quick when you rebuild a subaru, unfortunately, like "ouch1011" is right and a machine shop will charge you a lot more for having to split a subaru block, the piston removal is not like anything else. aaaaaa lllllloooot of work haha

if the car isnt something your trying to make last foooooorrrever, i would look for a decent used engine, and possibly have it shipped from the states or from japan