Blinking third Brake light kit: Is this Legal?

[xoSubieLegacyxo]

My friend found this kit that converts your third brake light to flash 10 times. Apparently it helps a driver brake 0.02 seconds faster than a normal brake light. Would this be legal to install? Here's a video of what I mean....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO4zXVZpktw&feature=related

[Garrison]

Yup, bikers use them all the time around here. Haven't seen them on a car before, but there shouldn't be any reason that you would get sh*t from LEO's.

[Huffer]

Would this be legal to install?

Check with your local law enforcement...

[xoSubieLegacyxo]

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/inspections/enhanced_si_guide.pdf
page 18 it says....

"Flashing lights – The use of flashing lights is reserved for emergency and authorized
vehicles. Except for hazard warning flashers and turn signals that are standard
equipment, vehicles should not display flashing lights (e.g., brake lamps that flash
prior to steady burning)"

so I'm guessing it's illegal, but its easy to disable. I'm going to see how long my township will let it go until they need to write a ticket to meet their quota! lol

[Huffer]

Based on that, very definitely illegal. Don't do it, because I'll bet they can ticket you for more than that 0.02 seconds is worth.

[xoSubieLegacyxo]

Based on that, very definitely illegal. Don't do it, because I'll bet they can ticket you for more than that 0.02 seconds is worth.

ok

[98outbackpdx]

newer Nissan vehicles have the 3rd brake light that flashes when you brake. i have seen it on Altimas and also the Titan pickup.

[Hocrest]

Legal or not don't do it because it's annoying as hell to drive behind.

I once got behind a Harley on the Dragon with brake flashers. 2 miles in I was ready to push him off a cliff...

[White Wagon]

You have ridden the Dragon ? Nice ! I would love to hit that stretch of road up someday :wink:

[Garrison]

I once got behind a Harley on the Dragon with brake flashers. 2 miles in I was ready to push him off a cliff...
:smt005

Aw, I know. They're just such poor corner-ers.

[slaytalera]

not to mention all the oil they spew on the road, ruining grip lol

and yes VERY annoying and very illegal

[Huffer]

From a wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive ... _.28ESS.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Emergency_Stop_Signal_.28ESS.29)

Emergency Stop Signal (ESS)

Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo,[65] and BMW have released vehicles equipped to convey a special light signal when the vehicle is braked rapidly and severely. This is officially referred to as "Emergency Stop Signal", and ECE Regulation 48 calls for the lamps providing the ESS to flash at 4 Hz when a passenger car decelerates at greater than 6 m/s2 or a truck or bus decelerates at greater than 4 m/s2.[15] Mercedes vehicles flash the stop lamps for the ESS, while vehicles from the Volkswagen Group of manufacturers (VW, Audi, SEAT & Skoda) flash the hazard flashers.[citation needed]

Other methods of severe-braking indication have also been implemented; some Volvo models make the stop lamps brighter, and some BMWs have "Adaptive Brake Lights" that effectively increase the size of the stop lights under severe braking by illuminating the tail lamps at brighter-than-normal intensity. As long as the brighter-than-normal stop lamps are within the regulated maximum intensity for stop lamps in general, this kind of implementation does not require specific regulatory approval since the stop lamps are under all conditions operating in accord with the general regulations on stop lamps.[citation needed]

The idea behind such emergency-braking indicator systems is to catch following drivers' attention with special urgency. However, there remains considerable debate over whether the system offers a measurable increase in safety performance. To date, studies of vehicles in service have not shown any significant such improvement. The systems used by BMW, Volvo, and Mercedes differ not only in operational mode (growing vs. intensifying vs. flashing, respectively), but also in such parameters as deceleration threshold of activation. Data are being collected and analyzed in an effort to determine how such a system might be implemented to maximise a safety benefit, if such a benefit can be realised with visual emergency braking displays.[66] An experimental study at the University of Toronto [67] has tested stop lights which gradually and continuously grow in illuminated area with increasing vehicle deceleration rate (i.e., increasing brake application pressure).

One potentially problematic factor in the implementation of flashing stop lamps in North America is that North American regulations permit flashing stop lamps to be used in lieu of separate rear turn signal and hazard warning lamps.

Here's the thing - these brake flashers are ONLY supposed to be used in an emergency stop - not anytime you hit the brake pedal. All it will do is make the person behind you think you are a moronic driver who rides the pedal all the time. And you'll really tick off any fellow touger's or hill climb participants. The technology that auto manufacturers use is based on brake pedal pressure, so the quicker/harder you push the pedal, the more likely you will trigger one of their systems.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Interesting.

On a slightly related note, I've noticed the new Mustangs have "flashing" turn signals where the 3 elements of the brake light light up in the direction of the turn sequentially. I haven't decided if it's annoying or cool. It certainly does get the attention and is easily discerned from braking, unlike most red turn/tail combo taillights.

[harrymaneuvers]

^^Beat me to it... I was just about to mention the new mustangs.

[Huffer]

Thats why the USA should have stuck to the Euro standard of amber lights for turn and hazards, then there would be no need to differentiate between turns and brakes.

[geckoboy86]

Thats why the USA should have stuck to the Euro standard of amber lights for turn and hazards, then there would be no need to differentiate between turns and brakes.
AGREED

I would like to have the ESS system. I think its a great thing.

[MRLancaster]

But if you havent noticed...anything that is safe in Europe....the US denies.....Like yellow fogs, the cops around here say its distracting, where as over there I believe it was mandatory on some cars if Im not mistaken. Hell people stateside cant even handle a car at 55-70mph....or 25 at that....it would be a mess if we had the autobahn xD

[GTDrifter]

Interesting.

On a slightly related note, I've noticed the new Mustangs have "flashing" turn signals where the 3 elements of the brake light light up in the direction of the turn sequentially. I haven't decided if it's annoying or cool. It certainly does get the attention and is easily discerned from braking, unlike most red turn/tail combo taillights.

There's a mustang (late 90s-03) at my college with those. I think it's just irritating. Might be because he has euro tails and led lights but either way.

[xoSubieLegacyxo]

^ I saw that one! I have mixed reviews about it. But since it's illegal in my state, and because my township likes to pull you over for pointless reasons I won't do it!

[NGTD]

Interesting.

On a slightly related note, I've noticed the new Mustangs have "flashing" turn signals where the 3 elements of the brake light light up in the direction of the turn sequentially. I haven't decided if it's annoying or cool. It certainly does get the attention and is easily discerned from braking, unlike most red turn/tail combo taillights.

Welcome back to the late "60's - Mustangs had them then too. :grin:

BTW, they are normally called sequential signals.

[Huffer]

But if you havent noticed...anything that is safe in Europe....the US denies.....Like yellow fogs, the cops around here say its distracting, where as over there I believe it was mandatory on some cars if Im not mistaken. Hell people stateside cant even handle a car at 55-70mph....or 25 at that....it would be a mess if we had the autobahn xD

Its down to driver training and the kind of population you're catering for. Example - the 90s explosion of SUVs in the USA for the driver wanting to be coddled and cradled.
In Europe it was all about efficiency and utility. Still is!

[derrick_]

Interesting.

On a slightly related note, I've noticed the new Mustangs have "flashing" turn signals where the 3 elements of the brake light light up in the direction of the turn sequentially. I haven't decided if it's annoying or cool. It certainly does get the attention and is easily discerned from braking, unlike most red turn/tail combo taillights.

Welcome back to the late "60's - Mustangs had them then too. :grin:

BTW, they are normally called sequential signals.

I believe that it was actually a mercury (cougar?) That had them.

[NGTD]

[quote="Wiscon_Mark":1x4gpkdx]Interesting.

On a slightly related note, I've noticed the new Mustangs have "flashing" turn signals where the 3 elements of the brake light light up in the direction of the turn sequentially. I haven't decided if it's annoying or cool. It certainly does get the attention and is easily discerned from braking, unlike most red turn/tail combo taillights.

Welcome back to the late "60's - Mustangs had them then too. :grin:

BTW, they are normally called sequential signals.

I believe that it was actually a mercury (cougar?) That had them.[/quote:1x4gpkdx]

Mustangs and Cougars. They also had conversions for other cars like Impalas etc.

[geckoboy86]

I talked with a state trooper on the matter and its legal. It's legal because it only flashes when braking and not the whole time like emergency vehicles. It also helps matters when its only the third light and not all brake lights.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Thats why the USA should have stuck to the Euro standard of amber lights for turn and hazards, then there would be no need to differentiate between turns and brakes.

100% agree. We should also standardize warning systems that tell you when your brake lights are out. I was driving behind a car that suddenly slowed (used brakes) and no lights at all came on! How do you not notice 3 separate lights burning out?!

On another related note: DRL systems are terrible - everyone drives around with no taillights on at all, even at night, thinking that it's okay because their headlights are on.

[MRLancaster]

Ive never seen those lights before! And now Im seeing those stupid flashing lights everywhere! >:(

[Huffer]

I talked with a state trooper on the matter and its legal. It's legal because it only flashes when braking and not the whole time like emergency vehicles. It also helps matters when its only the third light and not all brake lights.

That's a slightly different system - and a much better one. I've seen this on the newer Fords where the 3rd brake (hi mount stop light) illuminates a split second before the other two brake lights. It's enough.

[amgarrety]

I talked with a state trooper on the matter and its legal. It's legal because it only flashes when braking and not the whole time like emergency vehicles. It also helps matters when its only the third light and not all brake lights.


Might I add that the 3rd brake light flashing looks pretty sick when driving behind you.

I forgot to tell you that when we parked. But I definitely like the blinking third brake light.