Subaru BRZ Revealed

[TGX4776]

Looks much better then the FT86 IMHO

http://pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24613


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/5895521_600x400-2.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/5895508_600x400-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/5895516_600x400-2.jpg

[Danny-G]

Not too sure what I think.... It kinda looks like a space age two door gc with a bunch of gd and gr parts molded to it. And I think it could use a gd style STi wing. The two post one just doesn't seem fitting as a factory piece. The back almost makes my think new school Challenger... I guess I'm not too fond of it untill I see one in person. (I was the same way about the gr when it came out)

[httrdd]

The front screams 370Z. Not really a fan, but I am only a consumer.

[Reason]

Well this is on my wish list, minus one rear wing please...

[Huffer]

I absolutely hate this multi-spoke wheel trend. So Chrysler.

Give me a balls-out nutso coupe anyday. Why do all the manufacturers (except Honda) keep trying to make a coupe-car look like a shoe?

[Dead91silvia]

not blowing my skirt up.... Oh wait I dont have one. haha

Dont do much for me...

[Wiscon_Mark]

This isn't the real one - it's the concept. The real "actual" car will be revealed at the Tokyo Auto Show.

[xoSubieLegacyxo]

*cough

http://www.theracecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Subaru-BRZ-1-587x440.jpg

[amgarrety]

I don't know if i'd want a car with such small side mirrors :lol:

[GTDrifter]

^^wrc mirrors are smaller

I have mixed feelings on it...Definitely hate the rear wing and would rather have less spokes on the wheels

[02_Legacy]

I have mixed feelings on it...Definitely hate the rear wing and would rather have less spokes on the wheels
i'll bet both those are gone when the production model is debued, or they at least become options.

I'm digging it, the only thing that I don't like is that it is going to be RWD :-(

[TGX4776]

This isn't the real one - it's the concept. The real "actual" car will be revealed at the Tokyo Auto Show.


Read the link. its being released at the LA auto show.

[Wiscon_Mark]

The Long-awaited Subaru BRZ coupe - Subaru's take on the small coupe that it's co-developed with Toyota - will finally get its debut (in 'concept' form) at the LA show on 18 November, before the production car proper gets its debut at the Tokyo motor show in December.

Yes, I'm referring to the real BRZ.

[Huffer]

Motor Trend's latest mag has a full test drive inside the concept car:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/cou ... rst_drive/ (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1112_2013_subaru_brz_prototype_first_drive/)

First Drive: 2013 Subaru BRZ Prototype
Off the Chart: Subaru Nails it With a Nimble, Intriguing Sports Car
From the December, 2011 issue of Motor Trend
By Angus MacKenzie

Every so often in this business, you drive a car that lets you know in the first hundred yards or so that it's special -- that it's somehow greater than the sum of the numbers on its spec chart. The new Subaru BRZ is one of those cars. It's not the fastest, the most powerful, nor even the sexiest two-door coupe in the business. But if you love driving, you're going to love this Subaru.

The Subaru BRZ is the result of one of the auto industry's oddest joint ventures since Alfa Romeo and Nissan hooked up in the 1980s to produce the ARNA, a car that spectacularly combined the worst features of both: It had Alfa Romeo's suspect reliability and Nissan's boring styling and sloppy handling. This time, though, everyone looks like a winner. Subaru gets a great sports car it couldn't afford to build, and Toyota gets a great sports car, to be badged as a Scion here in the United States, that it couldn't find room to build.

Toyota did the planning and design. Subaru did the engineering, and will build both versions at its Gunma plant in Japan. Both cars will initially be identical, apart from front and rear bumper fascias, badging, and detail equipment levels. We haven't sat in the Scion yet, but we've driven the BRZ, albeit a heavily camouflaged prototype. First impressions are good. Very good.

The key to the BRZ's appeal is the unique hardware under its relatively conventional skin. This is the world's only front-engine, rear-drive sports car powered by a boxer engine. The Subaru 2.0-liter four is an all-new engine with a different block from that used in the 2012 Impreza, and features Toyota-sourced direct injection. It gets a unique FA designation within the Subaru engine family (the closely related 2012 Impreza engine is known as the FB, while the 2011 Impreza is the EJ), and though Subaru engineers were tight-lipped about the engine's output, they didn't disagree with our guess of about 200 hp and 170 lb-ft. The engine drives the rear wheels through a choice of two Aisin six-speed transmissions, one a manual, the other a conventional planetary automatic with manual actuation via steering wheel-mounted paddles. The transmission is the same one used in the Lexus IS 350, among others. Front suspension is MacPherson strut, while the rear gets a complex multilink setup. Brakes are disc all around.

Keeping the center of gravity as low as possible -- always a good thing for a sports car -- was one of the BRZ's key design goals, and Subaru's engineers have made the most of the flat-four engine's obvious advantage in this area. Compared with the 2012 Impreza's engine, the BRZ's boxer sits almost 4.8 inches lower and just over 8 inches farther back in the chassis. What that means is this: The top of the engine is roughly knee height, and the center line of the front axle is aligned with the bore center of the rear pair of cylinders.

When you slide in behind the wheel it's apparent just how low the cowl height is, even though you're sitting low in the car. Once on the road, the moment you pull the steering wheel off-center you notice how rapidly and accurately the BRZ responds to driver inputs. The weight distribution is not quite 50/50; Subaru engineers will only admit that less than 60 percent of the car's mass is over the front axle, and the chassis has been set up for mild understeer. But there's no mistaking the agility borne of low mass, slung low.

The ride is firm, but not harsh. Tellingly, the BRZ was developed on 16- and 17-inch wheels, defying the fashionable trend toward factory-fitted dubs rimmed with rubber-band-thin tires. The benefit of smaller wheels, of course, is reduced unsprung mass, and therefore better, more precise wheel control. Our tester rolled on 17s fitted with 215/45 tires that delivered good grip and gave plenty of notice approaching the limits of adhesion.

The BRZ has the same sweet-natured nimbleness as a Mazda Miata or a Porsche Boxster. That sensation is helped by the fact that, like the Miata and the original Boxster, the BRZ's engine simply cannot outdrive the chassis. It only takes a few miles along your favorite canyon road to start wishing you had 100 more horses to play with. The car stays flat through the turns, and when pushed very hard it will oversteer, but the onset is smooth and progressive. The low mass--Subaru says production cars will weigh a feathery 2500 pounds--means you can brake later for turns, carry lots of speed through them, and still nail apexes like a sharpshooter. The BRZ rewards neatness: Get it right and we bet you can hang with the more-powerful AWD WRX through the twisties.

The 2.0-liter boxer delivers healthy mid-range punch, though a little more top-end bite would be welcome. The tach is redlined at 7400 rpm, but there's little point hanging on much past 7000 as the power delivery goes flat. The engine idles quietly, but develops a pleasing muted throb, like an STI wrapped in cotton wool, when you get active with the gas pedal. Our prototype was fitted with the automatic transmission. It felt crisp and clean in regular driving, and responsive in manual mode, matching revs on the downshifts when you fanned the left-hand paddle.

The BRZ -- really, could Subaru have come up with a less evocative name for a sport coupe? -- is on some levels the most conventional car Japan's quirkiest automaker has ever built. But it opens up some intriguing possibilities for the company, especially as Subaru and Toyota are free to develop the BRZ hardware any way they like from here on in. Subaru engineers quietly concede there's more power to come from the boxer four, though they won't confirm whether a turbo is in the works. They admit the BRZ structure has been engineered from the get-go to allow for a convertible version, so you can bet we'll see a softtop model within the next few years. And, most intriguing of all, they say the platform is flexible enough to allow for a significant wheelbase stretch. A BRZ-based four-door sport sedan? Now that's an interesting idea...

How the BRZ came to be
The teaming up of Toyota and Subaru is intriguing, but not unprecedented. Back in 2008, both shared a desire to brighten their somewhat dim sports car portfolios. Toyota would take the lead in planning, designing, and bankrolling the new two-door, dubbed AS1, while Subaru offered its proven high-performance engineering and production capabilities. The companies would split sales and marketing duties.

Automotive history buffs will enjoy learning the BRZ isn't Subaru's first rear-drive vehicle. That title belongs to the 1953-'54 Fuji Heavy Industries Prototype 1 sedan, later known as the Subaru 1500. P-1 employed the first Japanese-made monocoque body and paved the way for brand icons such as the Subaru 360 and 1000. - Nate Martinez

Great Expectations
Once the Toyota/Subaru deal was sealed, engineers from both automakers made sure to agree on basic expectations. There weren't many, but each was critical in crafting the coupe you see here.

First, it had to be lightweight and fuel-efficient. Second, handling prowess, rather than all-out speed and horsepower, needed to be emphasized, with a low center of gravity. Third, there had to be enough room for four passengers and luggage space for a pair of golf bags.

Engineering a mid-engine layout would negate the 2+2 seating requirement, while an AWD system would add weight and reduce fuel economy. A twin-clutch gearbox would also add unwanted mass, plus increase cost. According to Subaru's engineers, a front-engine/rear-drive configuration with a boxer engine and a traditional gearbox duo was "ideal for [the BRZ's] vision."

Engineers were tight-lipped about exact production numbers, but they nodded in agreement when we coughed up a 3000-unit-per-year guess. That would put the BRZ in current WRX STI production territory, making it a low-volume niche car. - Nate Martinez

2013 Subaru BRZ prototype
BASE PRICE $25,000 (est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 4-pass,2-door coupe
ENGINE 2.0L/200-hp (est)/170-lb-ft (est) DOHC 16-valve flat-4
TRANSMISSION 6-speed manual,6-speed automatic
CURB WEIGHT 2500 lb (mfr est)
WHEELBASE 93.5 in (est)
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 148.8 x 70.0 x 46.8 (est)
0-60 MPH 6.0 sec (MT est)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 25-27/30-32 mpg (est)
ENERGY CONS, CITY/HWY 125-135/105-112 kW-hrs/100 mi (est)
CO2 EMISSIONS 0.67-0.72 lb/mi (est)
ON SALE IN U.S. Spring 2012

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/cou ... z1dEJn9HGf (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1112_2013_subaru_brz_prototype_first_drive/#ixzz1dEJn9HGf)





Here's some teaser info from their site:
http://wot.motortrend.com/subaru-teases ... 33649.html (http://wot.motortrend.com/subaru-teases-production-ready-brz-for-before-tokyo-motor-show-reveal-133649.html)


With the BRZ Concept already revealed before the Los Angeles Auto Show, Subaru is ramping up for its home show in Tokyo in December. The automaker has teased us with a snap of the production-spec BRZ and a few more details on the car.

Though we can only see the front corner of the car, it doesn’t look like the BRZ will change much in its transition from concept to production. The main differences include a more trapezoidalfoglight surround with traditional light – instead of the LEDs on the concept – and washer jets for the headlights. The gaping intake and LED-trimmed headlights remain.

It will pack a direct-injected 2.0-liter boxer-four cylinder that will send power to the rear wheels through either a six-speed manual or a six-speed automatic transmission. No word yet on power output for the BRZ, but it is rumored that it will produce more than the 200 hp in the Toyota FT-86/Scion FR-S that the new coupe shares much of its mechanicals and bodywork with.

Exact dimensions of the BRZ are within a few inches of the Porsche Cayman – the Subie is shorter by 5.4 inches at 166.9 inches long, only an inch wider at 70.9 inches, and only a tenth of an inch shorter at 51.2 inches tall. The BRZ’s 101.2-inch wheelbase, however, is about six inches longer than the Cayman’s. We’ve driven a prototype, and noticed the car’s ride is firm, yet not harsh. It sits quite close to the ground and has a low center of gravity, which helps the BRZ feel nimble and fun to drive.

We’ll get a better look at the BRZ STI Concept next week at the Los Angeles Auto Show, and the final production BRZ STI at the Tokyo Motor Show next month.

Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/subaru-teases ... z1dEIVwHaw (http://wot.motortrend.com/subaru-teases-production-ready-brz-for-before-tokyo-motor-show-reveal-133649.html#ixzz1dEIVwHaw)


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/2013SubaruBRZPrototypesideinmotion-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/2013SubaruBRZPrototypechassis-1.jpg

[Wiscon_Mark]

A 2500 lb-ish Subaru? Fantastic.

I want one now :)

[Reason]

I said I never want another car payment, but I may make an exception with this thing, depending on the final changes.

[Dead91silvia]

EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 25-27/30-32 mpg (est)

^ that is horrible! The 300hp Mustang gets that MPG! My friend gets 21-25 MPG with his 05 Turbo Outback!

FAIL!

[TGX4776]

EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 25-27/30-32 mpg (est)

^ that is horrible! The 300hp Mustang gets that MPG! My friend gets 21-25 MPG with his 05 Turbo Outback!

FAIL!


in real life if your easy on it you could achieve 35 or so. I would be happy with those numbers my self.

The mustang probably has a taller final gear to get those highway figures

[Wiscon_Mark]

EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 25-27/30-32 mpg (est)

^ that is horrible! The 300hp Mustang gets that MPG! My friend gets 21-25 MPG with his 05 Turbo Outback!

FAIL!

EPA estimates are traditionally low. My Legacy is rated at 28 hwy. I've gotten 32-33 before with a touch of city driving. For a 200hp, 2.0L engine, I don't consider that bad. That's about what the iVTEC Acura RSX was getting, and the Civic Si is rated at 31.

I've also noticed that the EPA seems to give american cars the benefit of the doubt when it comes to fuel efficiency ratings.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

2500lbs=WIN!



But I'm sure a lot of these will be getting EJ257's in the by there owners

[ScaryFatKidGT]

A 2500 lb-ish Subaru? Fantastic.

I want one now :)Exactly!

[02_Legacy]

But I'm sure a lot of these will be getting EJ257's in the by there owners

I wonder how much fabrication that would take. The engine that is in it is not an EJ series so the engine mount locations could be different and they would also need to find a tranny that could hold the power and would fit.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

But I'm sure a lot of these will be getting EJ257's in the by there owners

I wonder how much fabrication that would take. The engine that is in it is not an EJ series so the engine mount locations could be different and they would also need to find a tranny that could hold the power and would fit.Tranny should bolt to any engine if Subrau follows its legoness but it could be a toyota tranny?

Maybe its not turbo o.O.

[Wiscon_Mark]

There were many rumors that there was going to be an STi version of this car, so I'm assuming the transmission was purpose built for more power.

We shall see.

[Huffer]

You guys need to read. It's a flat 4 2.0l w/ RWD 6 speed gearbox.

Doesn't say if it's turbo or not, but the implications here are for some interesting tranny swaps. I can see the hardcore autoxers attempting to slap an AWD tranny in there.
Really though, without the AWD tranny, it's saving a ton of weight.

[chuckthefuk]

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/711/0cf20e58a6fce139c19f3ee.jpg

These is the Toyota FR-S but it somewhat identical to the BRZ drivetrain layout.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/scion_fr-s_side.jpg
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/scion_fr-s_front.jpg

The sole reason why the BRZ will not be AWD is the placement of the motor .. Such a low center of gravity gives little room for front diff.

-Chuck

[chuckthefuk]

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/ffe67bb4798e695a551107b0c196a45e.jpg

[Huffer]

Here's the really cool thing about this car - the BRZ will be released also as a Scion - but after both of these initial releases, each manufacturer (Toyota & Subaru) have the IP rights to mess with it from then on.

[Reason]

The balls... I want this car, I read that Roger and it makes me think the next one will be better. Hmmmm

[Huffer]

It'll be interesting to see what each company does. Personally I think I'm going to like what Scion does...they've already had TRD convert a TC into a RWD drift beast (Tanner Foust). Subaru hasn't done as much with their cars (because of funding) but the privateer sector is always full of ideas.

If the WRC allowed flat-four engines back in, I could see the BRZ get kitted out with body armor, longer axles and CF roof panels. Factory weight is already sub 2800lbs so you strip all that other stuff out and - hey - it's nearly 22B time again.

[chuckthefuk]

I am just not feelin' the BRZ / FT-S / FT-86.

I understand why they are necessary for todays global market, but they all seem to be Scion TC / Hyundia Tiburon~Genesis / Nissan 350z / smashed together abominations..

The rear quarter glass is just a carbon copy of Nissan / Hyundia design.

Oh BTW Huffer that Scion V8 your describing was not a TRD creation.. Support was given to Tanner's crew by means of an old generation 1 Toyota Nascar V8. The custom front end, engine mounts, ems, transmission, rear end... all of this was done by a private shop with no TRD support.

Still cool but if your going to go this route then Ken Block 1, 2. 2.1 are all Subaru commissioned vehicles for the private sector.

Subaru has had a heavy tie with Cosworth and released 400 special editions... ya.. thats not so impressive but the amount of Subaru funding goes into to NON-WRC rally events are astronomical..

The boxer is dead.. Never will it be back to WRC.. its just an unfair advantage over i4's.

The BRZ is rumored to be built on a Legacy chassis and the FR-S / FT-86 are Camry chassis. These are not ideal short wheel base mountain rockets.

But hey we can all dream.
-Chuck

[Wiscon_Mark]

I understand why the boxer engine has weight distribution/center of mass advantages over the I-4, but it's not like Subaru had been crushing everyone that they had to outlaw it (like Audi in the 80s). That kind of ban just seemed unnecessary.


The BRZ is rumored to be built on a Legacy chassis and the FR-S / FT-86 are Camry chassis. These are not ideal short wheel base mountain rockets.

I find it odd that they'd use two different chassis for the same essential car...

[chuckthefuk]

If the rumor is true I would assume it would have to be related to cost of development and "re-use" of what they already have to accommodate the manufacturing process.

[Huffer]

I don't think the rumor is totally true. Motor Trend has already driven the car as it sits, the chassis has been built and tested. I'm pretty sure the relevant R&D people took cues from the Legacy & Camry chassis, which is simply just good R&D. I'm sure they also took research from the TC, and the multi-link suspension designs from both companies.

Either way, collaboration between companies is a good thing - they've done it for years but in the last 20 it's become more public. The Ford Fusion is based on the Mazda6 - and Subaru also grabbed some useful tech from GM. Look at what Saab tried with Subaru.

[Huffer]

Here's the FRS concept car, unveiled in Detroit back in April 2011: aka FRS-86
https://www.frs-scion.com/

https://www.frs-scion.com/img/car.jpg

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011/04 ... 6-concept/ (http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011/04/first-look-scion-frs-86-concept/)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/ScionFRS86side-1.jpg

I MUCH prefer this car over the Subaru BRZ. But we'll have to see what Toyota does to tone it down to bring it to the general market place.

[Wiscon_Mark]

That IS nice...

[chuckthefuk]

Here we go.

Production Toyota GT-86.. not FT..

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_43ad849039534bd7a4d7a9123585d415.jpg
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_2d6492ab14c1060a96482bdbe1de765d.jpg

still looks like a genesis..

Although.. just noticed the fender badge on the GT-86.. is it... wait.. it is.. yay..it is horizontally opposed pistons :-D

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6240/boxerv.jpg

[98legwag]

Speedtv.com is reporting the BRZ STI will be 300 bhp.

[TGX4776]

mmmm do want.

Reported as being close to 28k GBP in the uk so probably $25k here. too expensive for the performance. I would expect it to start at 18-19k for the base.

[Wiscon_Mark]

It's rough to translate car prices from there to here. I doubt the base model will be quite that much, but car prices are on the rise overall.

[chuckthefuk]

BRZ! Production.

Cool.. :smt012 its almost identical.. :smt011

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/4eb21926aec3255eb345669edf3f9e95.jpg
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/633c2679a2119405d7b6f5e243a5cde0.jpg


And to shut me up..

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7992/originalbd.png

[Huffer]

Hot roadie. Woo!

[geckoboy86]

Lots of new photos from the Tokyo motor show
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2461

[Wiscon_Mark]

Swaybars won't be interchangable :lol:

But that's a hot car. I really like it!

[TGX4776]

do want

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/SubaruBRZRacer01-1.jpg

[Yamazaki]

Lots of new photos from the Tokyo motor show
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2461
Hmm, those pics are all well and good, but they left me with two questions:

1) What will the US model BRZ add/lose from that one (Japan model)?
2) What's the story with the 'G4' in the backround? It looks smaller than a 'B4', but bigger than an Impreza... :smt017

[chuckthefuk]

BRZ will have the same 190-ish 2.0 boxer direct injection as the FR-S/GT-86.

How long do we have to wait untill a real turbocharged BRZ in STi clothing is made.

BRZ production video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... P3SR1m_aRY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eP3SR1m_aRY)

-Chuck

[98legwag]

It weighs in at 2770 lbs. I think I may be buying one when it goes on sale in May/June. Should cost around $25,000.

[Legacy89]

I would wait for the Turbo or H6 model. When a car looks like that less than 200whp is just to low.

[chuckthefuk]

H6 is so heavy..

[Huffer]

I would wait for the Turbo or H6 model. When a car looks like that less than 200whp is just to low.

Here's the thing - they are designing it to be "useable power" - very few people, STi owners included, actually use the top 40% of their power range. The vast majority of people spend their time around 1500-3500rpm. People rarely hit 4500rpm unless they're merging onto the freeway or flooring it for some reason.

You keep the engine peppy, the chassis light and responsive, and you have a fun car to drive. Mazda has done it right for YEARS.

[SativaMan04]

Since both companies will branch off and design their own car after this first gen. Wouldn't that make the BRZ/FT86 a rare car and possibly a collectors item in the future?

Huffers right, I had three miatas and must say they were the easiest and funnest cars to drive/handle. Super responsive! 50/50 weight differential and underpowered so you can keep it in high revs and the car will handle everything you throw at it. I could keep up with my buddy's stis, r32, A4's mountain running. (Touge!) I've seen miata's make lotus's and porsches spin out on the track and they're always top three in the autocrossing events.

This BRZ/FT86 is going to be a beast, fun to drive, and have the boxer rumble!! Siiiighh.... Mazda's s****** in their pants right now! hehe

I'm definitely saving up all year in 2012 and 2013 to buy the car in cash yola!! Gotta finish my BH first.

[chuckthefuk]

Here u guys go..


http://jalopnik.com/5864550/subaru-brz- ... s-at-24000 (http://jalopnik.com/5864550/subaru-brz-pricing-starts-at-24000)

The BRZ will reportedly start at around $24,000 and rise to $27,000 for the Limited model.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_68ebeb6c25fa1f632c6b9ea607cb4787.jpg

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_03a9a94b0b9703e27de801138325e1b5.jpg

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_c26c6f4bd93e3bae0d9480b3da8dde78.jpg

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_7128a448cea2f8b4646b863b0eb7db61.jpg

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_dee8d2ad1a10947a66e912c5a8cb4822.jpg

[Yamazaki]

Here u guys go..
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

What the hell? I can tell I'm getting old when the first thing I notice is that the only people that can fit in the back are parapalegics...

[chuckthefuk]

Comeon.. if you are getting old then you would understand why its so small..

*cough* 911 2+ 2 :-D

Here's an idea.. Lets make a 2 door sports car ... done.. whats the insurance like.. yikes.. I got it. lets make it a 2 + 2.. done.. whats insurance like now? Manageable.. unlike the S2000/3*0z/Miata

-Chuck

P.S.

Thats a wide-angle lens... thus... it looks smaller then it is.. those are 50/50 split rear seats.. by your observation those would never fold down.. but they do :-D

[Wiscon_Mark]

Yeah, it's not exactly uncommon in sports cars to have a tiny back seat. Still, it's OK for baby.

I'm convincing my wife the BRZ is practical enough that I can get one :grin:

[Reason]

lol Yamazaki, looks like I'm trading in the Legacy.... lol

[Dead91silvia]

Here u guys go..
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

What the hell? I can tell I'm getting old when the first thing I notice is that the only people that can fit in the back are parapalegics...

When is the lsat time you rode in the back of an S13? Same thing there also! When I had my Silvia, my 4 year old twin nephews fit perfect! :smt005

And your not that old... I thought the same thing... Unless I'm getting old too! :roll:

[Navi271]

I'm excited for this! At first I was like :neutral: because I noticed the engine was tiny, smaller than what i have now. Then I thought about the power to weight ratio and I felt better about it. I've always liked naturally aspirated engines more than turbo'd ones too. I'll definitely take a test drive in it when it shows up around here.

[98outbackpdx]

Top Gear reviewed the BRZ.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-brz-first-drive-review-2011-12-03

[TGX4776]

http://pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=47&i=24805

pistonheads review

[98legwag]

I've heard it runs on 87 and not 91 or 93. Can anyone confirm this? I am very excited to test drive and possibly buy one when it comes out.

EDIT- 42 MPG!? I can dig that.

[Reason]

They keep saying aww only 200bhp no Turbo blah blah. I'm sure many people will swap or mod the shit out of the car. The point is the base of the car is correct and well balanced, the power can be added easily.

[02_Legacy]

I've heard it runs on 87 and not 91 or 93. Can anyone confirm this? I am very excited to test drive and possibly buy one when it comes out.

According to that piston head article it has a 12.5:1 compression ratio, that is quite high, so I doubt that it will be running on anything other than 93.

[98legwag]

Either way that 42 mpg is impressive if true.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't get 42MPG. I read it was going to be around 31-33MPG hwy.

I don't really know what they're referring to. 42 KM/gallon would be about 26MPG.

[TGX4776]

They keep saying aww only 200bhp no Turbo blah blah. I'm sure many people will swap or mod the shit out of the car. The point is the base of the car is correct and well balanced, the power can be added easily.


yes but just for thew initial offering. Subaru and toyota can now put anything they want into it. I see an sti version coming out.

[Okin DaVanh]

Don't know how I feel about the BRZ. "Rear Wheel Drive", "Subaru" and "Sportscar" are almost never spoken in the same sentence. Long gone (soon to be back) was the days Subaru had a sportscar the likes of the SVX. However, the SVX had AWD. Not sure what I feel bout it, til I see or drive 1. lso, convertible in the works??
http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezflow_site/storage_RT_NEW/storage/images/make/subaru/flippers/2014-subaru-brz-convertible/2701506-2-eng-US/2014-subaru-brz-convertible.jpg
http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars ... onvertible (http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/first/2014-subaru-brz-convertible)

[Huffer]

This is kind of like the Miata and MazdaSpeed3 issue - when a car comes out that is properly balanced and tuned, or at least fast enough to adapt, then it becomes hard to justify "power adders". The major complaint from MazdaSpeed3 drivers is that they can't mod the car - too much power makes the car torque steer and doing anything to the suspension upsets the handling balance.

Sometimes, factory can just work.

Other times, not so much. It'll be interesting to see what people do, but Subaru already have it read for the GT series so if it's competitive there then that should be a good indication of how decent the chassis is.

It should handle great though - reminds me of how a well sorted RX7 can go.

[Huffer]

GT300 HI RES VIDEO!

http://youtu.be/3LjYl7VfFKE?hd=1

[Huffer]

Insideline.com test drive in Tokyo, in the two US-spec BRZ's:

http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/20 ... drive.html (http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/2013/2013-subaru-brz-first-drive.html)


A firm yank of the shifter into 2nd gear and the BRZ lays a small stripe with a chirp. There may only be a 2.0-liter, four-cylinder under the aluminum hood, but it definitely has some kick. In fact, the all-new flat-4, or "FA" engine as Subaru calls it, can deliver nearly all of its 150 pound-feet of torque at just 2,800 rpm.


came in under its target weight at 2,690 pounds according to Subaru. That's about 100 pounds less than a Honda Civic Si, and it feels like it, too.


the biggest eye-opener is the BRZ's new six-speed manual gearbox. Compared to the rubbery vagueness of the shifters in the WRX and WRX STI, the BRZ's Aisin unit feels far more precise. We have no trouble finding the gates and it moves with a mechanical feel that makes ripping gears in the BRZ more satisfying than any Subaru we've ever driven.

We swap into the automatic car for a few laps and it's shockingly good, too. It's a conventional automatic with paddle shifters and two driving modes. We leave it in Sport and watch as the tachometer swings right to redline and then shifts with an instantaneous pop. There's probably a dual-clutch setup out there that's faster, but not by much.

Under hard braking it pulls off rev-matched downshifts, too, sometimes dropping more than one gear at a time. And in manual mode it'll let you bounce off the rev limiter all day without slapping your hand by upshifting for you. Other than the plastic shift paddles, there's little room for improvement.


The Takeaway
This 2013 Subaru BRZ is not for lightweights. Anyone who picks one up merely because it's nice-looking and gets decent mileage (estimated 30 mpg highway) will likely end up hating it. The ride is too stiff, the engine is too noisy and the tires are too loud. In other words, this is a car for true enthusiasts.

Granted, it's not terribly fast and probably won't lay down eye-popping track numbers, but it gets the basics right. A lively, predictable chassis, plenty of usable power and two different transmissions that both work exactly the way they should. Not to mention fully defeatable stability and traction control.

Subaru hasn't said exactly how much it expects enthusiasts to pay for the BRZ, but officials have hinted that it will fall closely in line with the pricing of the Impreza WRX. That means a base price of around $25,000 when the BRZ goes on sale in May of next year. Expect to see them clogging up track days all over the country by the end of the summer.

[Reason]

The GT300 is SICK!!

[Yamazaki]

I'm going to the Tokyo Motor Show this weekend, I want to see this thing in person...

[SativaMan04]

post pics Yamazaki ^_^

[chuckthefuk]

Hmmmm...

Pretty Cool! Shift light and everything... looks peppy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP3SR1m_aRY

[chuckthefuk]

Hey look a new EA Need For Speed game ... oh the hype.. oh wait its the Toyobaru GT86 ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIABGIHa ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIABGIHaYMA&feature=related)

[Yamazaki]

Here (http://www.tokyo-motorshow.com/en/booth/exhibits/110_140_Subaru001.html) are the things I'll be looking at tomorrow. The S206 will be of interest to me too.

[prodriver1]

so how long till we see a legacy with the 2.0 200hp boxer from the brz? :smt023 I'll volunteer to be the first for the swap :smt023

[chuckthefuk]

The new engine will be a turbocharged version of the latest FA20 engine and will come with Toyota’s “D-4S” direct injection and port injection technology.

http://www.fastmotoring.com/index.php/2 ... bo-engine/ (http://www.fastmotoring.com/index.php/2012/01/next-generation-subaru-impreza-wrx-to-receive-fa20-turbo-engine/)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/01/2013SubaruBRZ2630x420-1.jpg

[98legwag]

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012/01 ... ncept.aspx (http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012/01/25/car-feature-gt-gt-subaru-brz-sti-concept.aspx)

[chuckthefuk]

^^^
Bad Ass minus the lack of turbo..

and this is the cutest part I have ever seen!

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/2012/JAN2012/BRZSTI/AY0F4896.jpg

[prodriver1]

^^^
Bad Ass minus the lack of turbo..

and this is the cutest part I have ever seen!

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/
Ohhh... that is way cuter than the kitty holding on to the cloths line "hang in their".

[geckoboy86]

^^^ I'm getting the SLi tie down but I kinda want that one too!

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Where the heck do they sell these boutique tie-downs?

I'm going to bitch about the power till they make an STi version 1. They have had 2 liter N/A engines with 200hp for over a decade now and with Direct injection they should be able to make more easy. 2. Car companies always seem to skimp on power on good handling cars saying they are "Balanced" The Miata even the rare Speed edition wasn't much better, RX-8, S2000 all are great drivers cars but loose against more powerful less balanced cars on the street and track now these cars are not better its just that instead of making a perfect affordable sports car they always seem to pull the power back. Now most of these engines are small and already running near factory allowable max but it goes the other way 2 the 350Z weighed to much, the amazing engines in the Cobalt SS and MazdaSpeed3 are stuck in front heavy front drive cars. Ford finally got its act together with the new Mustangs but the V8 models are still to front heavy and heavy in general making the V6 models drive better.

The BRZ seems to be one of the best platforms ever and very light by today's standards but they again skimp on power. Making it RWD was a very good idea and it will destroy the Civic Si (getting fat and tame now) and GTi (also has good handling low power problem) but when put up against the Coblat SS and V6 Mustang it wont have near the price to performance value.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'm sorry, but you can't compare this car to a muscle car - apples to oranges. I sincerely doubt people looking at Mustangs would even consider the BRZ. Performance is relative.

IMO, the BRZ fills a void that the S2000 left (and at a much cheaper price). And FWIW, the S2000 did create more power with a 2.0L engine (later upgraded to 2.2L for reliability) but you had to rev the car up to crazy RPMs to make it. The BRZ sounds like it is much more driveable on the streets, and I like hardtops over convertibles any day of the week.

[rougeben83]

"its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow (or fast)". I'd like more power too, but I think the whole point of this car is to have fun within the relative limits of the street vs. an all out physical limits found on a track.

[ScaryFatKidGT]

"its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow (or fast)". I'd like more power too, but I think the whole point of this car is to have fun within the relative limits of the street vs. an all out physical limits found on a track.True I just don't like the idea that every V6 family sedan/mini van can take you from a stop light.

And what happened to that black front splitter? That made the front end

[Wiscon_Mark]

True I just don't like the idea that every V6 family sedan/mini van can take you from a stop light.

Ford Fusion SEL V6 - 7.3 seconds
Toyota Sienna SE - 7.0 seconds
2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6R Limited - 6.3 seconds
Honda Accord EX sedan - 6.1 seconds

Subaru BRZ - 6.0 seconds (according to Car & Driver)

The 2002 WRX was 5.4 seconds with 227 HP and AWD (which helps more than it hurts with 0-60 times).

[Huffer]

Lachute Performance in Canada is breaking down a BR-Z.

Here's a pic of their prototype header:
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/556006_466994423319547_1219248522_n.jpg

The dyno run
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/599921_467250086627314_1839799681_n.jpg
14hp+ on just headers alone, with no tuning?!?

Their catback
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/555470_471880839497572_127554039_n.jpg

[nikolaus.conrad]

^That header looks fantastic!

[98legwag]

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/201 ... 27134.html (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/2014-subaru-brz-sti-ar127134.html)

Subaru says the BRZ STI won't get a turbo because there isn't room in the engine bay. Companies are already working on turbo kits.

[nikolaus.conrad]

If AutoExpress magazine claimed this, I would find another source. I really don't trust anything they publish.

[prodriver1]

N/A BRZ STi = way to expensive. or it would just be suspension upgrades and the like, no way they will make a 250hp N/A 2.0l.

[lord flashheart]

Why do u say that?

HP is just torque multiplied by rpm and divided by 5250 that's why rotorys and bullit bikes make so much power per liter. They rev to 13000 rpms.
Imho, I looked at the torque curve and components on the brz and If you change the camshaft and the tune in the brz I honestly believe you can do 150-170 ftlbs at 7750rpms of torque it would be about 250-260 HP. Which would be easy assuming the internal components will handle it.

However it would be much easier to do and easier on internal parts if you go turbocharged.

Every 1000 rpm increases load and stress on internal components by 65% if I Remeber correctly. In contrast to the 30% increase for every bar. So if you want to make 300hp , you have to increase the barometric pressure or increase the RPM, it would be harder on internal components (rods mainly) to do up in rpm then to go up in boost.

[lord flashheart]

I also want to add that your right tho, if subaru wants 250hp they will go f/i. The trade off to do it n/a would be too high. I just wanted to point out they CAN, but they won't.

I think its bs they say there isn't room under the hood.
We are doing a supercharger on a guys brz and I think they can doit

[Wiscon_Mark]

N/A BRZ STi = way to expensive. or it would just be suspension upgrades and the like, no way they will make a 250hp N/A 2.0l.


Honda did 240HP with a 2.0L engine a decade ago. Why can't Subaru do 250HP with better tech?

[prodriver1]

N/A BRZ STi = way to expensive. or it would just be suspension upgrades and the like, no way they will make a 250hp N/A 2.0l.


Honda did 240HP with a 2.0L engine a decade ago. Why can't Subaru do 250HP with better tech?
same reasons almost everyone on here told me when i said i wanted to go N/A. this is hilarious, now im the one saying its ridiculous..... its too expensive and niche for them to make $ on an expensive high tuned N/A engine for a street car aimed at 20 something dudes.
honda did that because thats what they do with almost every engine they make, high comp, high reving N/A awesomeness is synonymous with honda, not so with subaru. subaru would need to go back to the drawing board, working with toyota on the heads was a start.

[lord flashheart]

I wasn't dogging you man lol I think your absolutely right. I don't think subaru will do na. Boost is a tough addiction to break (look at audi vw). But if anyone knows how to get subaru off the boost, its Toyota. Seriously does any manufacture make less turbo/supercharged cars? At least Nissan has the 370Z to keep everyone thinking they make something cool. They are headed down the same road Buick went down. Making an amazing powerplant (grand national/supra) and now making cars that are less appealing to a car enthusiast than a base model mercury topaz.

With the exception of the tacoma and tundra department,
Every one at Toyota should be slapped on the face for making cars so boring that they cause accidents, by put other drivers to sleep from sheer dullness.

What were we talking about?

[Wiscon_Mark]

But the Camry commercial people say the Camry SE is SPORTY!

:lol:

[lord flashheart]

Lol
The camry is sporty in the same way the baja is a truck.
Yeah I guess technically it is but its not what you go for when someone needs a couch moved.

[chuckthefuk]

Rebadge a Camry with a IS350 badge and its less boring..

[Thomistopheles]

I really miss Toyota's ridiculously over-engineered phase... with turbo versions of everything, manual transmissions that could handle 700hp or more, engines that have peen pushed to over 1000hp with stock internals... They killed off everything exciting in their lineup and got all econobox-y on us.

The BRZ/FRS is a move in the right direction, but it still doesn't make my jimmies tingle with excitement as much as it would with 250-300hp. It'd be a ****ing rocket at 300hp...

[jamaha51]

Ya what happened to all the badass jap cars from the 90s....

[Wiscon_Mark]

Ya what happened to all the badass jap cars from the 90s....

They didn't make enough money.

It's always about $$$

[lord flashheart]

Sad but true as toast.

[Wiscon_Mark]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/22/suba ... brz-turbo/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/22/subaru-developing-engine-for-brz-turbo/)

Looks like there is a turbo in the works. Twinscroll 280HP, 250 TQ.

Not that rumors ever really work out to be 100% true, but this would be pretty incredible!

[prodriver1]

^ok thats more like it! :smt023 i dont like turbos but i do like to see subaru making $ and building what enthusiasts want.

[TGX4776]

my only problem is the price. I can get into a 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8R making 349 Horses to the rear for 28k with a 6 speed manual and brembos. That is 1k over the stock BRZ price? Plus you cant beat a 10 year 100k mile warrenty. I don't see Subaru bringing in the BRZ turbo for under 35k untill they release an STi version. and for that price you get a Fully loaded Hyundai Genisis coupe 3.8 Track.

http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchback ... 07601.html (http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchback/2013-hyundai-genesis-coupe/4505-10867_7-35307601.html)

[Wiscon_Mark]

The Genesis is a fat pig though...If Subaru can keep the weight under 2800-2900 lbs they'll have a very different car from the Genesis which weighs in at 3300 - 3400 lbs with the manual.

Say the BRZ STi was only 100lbs more than the standard one. It'd only need to be at around 287 HP to have the same power to weight ratio as the Genesis, and it would handle better. We'll have to see how much Subaru loads up the features on it, and how much that drives the price up. I could see them doing a turbo version with upgraded suspension and brakes (from what I understand, the stock ones are pretty good though) for around 30k if they don't go crazy with extra options. Remember that a lot of the extra cost of the STi is the upgraded transmission & diffs, which the BRZ wouldn't need.

Should be interesting.