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View Full Version : Crazy starting issues after swap



anothernord
11-06-2011, 07:37 PM
I know this should technically go in the FI section, but it relates more to the N/A engine and it's possible issues.

I finally completed my swap; an EJ20H into a 97 Legacy OB, using the 25D ECU and wiring harness, and an Emanage Ultimate. I've been working out why I won't start for the last 4 days.

The starting system is fine, it cranks when power is applied, I just cranks and sputters a little and cranks some more then sputters encouragingly and cranks more. Sometimes it sounds like it is about to pick itself up and start, but it just continues cranking.



Things relating to the issue, either possible causes, observations, or important details:

-I extended the cam and crank sensor plugs, the #1 and #3 injectors plugs, and the CTS/ thermocouple on wiring harness to re-route them around hot things a while back. At first, I found that the wires on the crank sensor had frayed and broken off, causing a crank code. I fixed that and cleared the code, and it did not come back.

-Timing belt: I made sure the crank mark (NOT the TDC triangle) was aligned with the mark by the crank pos. sensor, and the cam pulleys had the double marks matching, and the belt had the correct number of teeth between all the marks. The crank sprocket and cams are right for the sensors, and the cam/cranks sensors both come out with 2000 Ohms of resistance. I've tried with the extras I have lying around.

-I put the stock injectors in, rescaled, and there was no difference.

-I'm running E85 at the moment, but all starting had been tested in a warm garage while the engine was warm from the use of a block heater.

-Coolant temp sensor reads the correct ambient temperature when the engine is cold.

-I tested the resistance between the positive and negative battery cables (removed from battery) and got around 33-35 ohms (IDK if that is within spec or whatever). I also unplugged and plugged in all sensors to see if one would change the resistance value. No difference.

-Ground are all good and attached.

-Blood sacrifice was completed



Here's where things get weird. The ~4 year old battery was a little weak from sitting 6 weeks, so I've been jumping it while I try to get it started, but even after it sat charging for 15 minutes, then was reconnected to the car, not even cranking, it would die within 30 minutes and have to be jumped again.

Here's a quick datalog of cranking. The yellow line shows timing, which bounces all over the place, from 160 degrees to 30, to -20, to whatever. However, a timing light showed that the spark was firing mostly at TDC, with an occasional jump to minus 20-30 degrees. That is confounding. Also, the injector output duty cycle sometimes jumps to 40+%, for no apparent reason.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/11/WTFcrankingpng-1.jpg

This leads be to think of a couple things,

a) Through my monkeying with the wiring, something could be shorting out, killing the battery and causing things to malfunction.
b) Timing is some how still off, whether relating to the wiring, or the timing belt is still weird.
c) Bent valves (unlikely, engine turns smoothly and has resistance at the proper spots)
d) Fouled plugs (they came out of a running engine, but they looked fine when I pulled them after a marathon of cranking yesterday)
e) Compression (also unlikely, had compression when I pulled it to do HG's, and it is audibly compressing during cranking)

I guess the next things to do, in order, would be:
-new plugs
-inspect test, and possibly remove the while wiring harness
-compression test

I've racked my brain, the internet, and had several people take a look. I am a noob, and therefore, help would be greatly appreciated.

02_Legacy
11-06-2011, 11:13 PM
OK start with the basics, for an engine to run it needs spark, fuel, and compression.

You just rebuilt the engine so lets set compression aside for now.
You hooked up a timing light and it worked so you know that there is electricity flowing to at least cylinder number 1 and mostly at the correct time. (though your graph freakes me out some with how much it changes)
The only thing you havent addressed is fuel. Do you hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the key to the run position. Perhaps hook up a fuel pressure gauge if you can get one to make sure that is correct.

If all that is good then I would chase after spark.

anothernord
11-06-2011, 11:22 PM
Yes, the fuel pump primes, and when I pulled the hose for the pressure line, fuel squirted out under pressure. No gauge, but its there... but timing is what weirds me out.

Huffer
11-08-2011, 10:15 AM
That battery sounds like an issue to me. The draw on a battery is pretty severe when starting a car, and 4 years is about the end of life cycle for most batteries anyway.

anothernord
11-08-2011, 04:21 PM
I'll throw the charger on it tonight and see if it comes back to life. As it is now, it reads 12V when sitting, but drops to 8 when the ignition is turned on.

jey
11-08-2011, 06:11 PM
Yeah that is definitely a dead battery. What kind of charger are you using?

anothernord
11-08-2011, 07:12 PM
I had a regular portable 2/6/60 amp guy, but it doesn't work. I'll just have to use the little 1-Amp motorcycle battery charger and leave it on for a day or two to nurse it back to health, if it isn't bad anyway. It did sit for 6 weeks after all.

anothernord
11-18-2011, 02:00 PM
The problem was....

I swapped the intake and exhaust cams on the passenger side. :smt012 :smt013 :smt012 :smt009

I don't* think that would have caused valves to bend, but right now it starts up (really loud), idles high and lean, and throws two IACV codes - p0505 and p1507. Also, there's no power at all; I can barley get the car moving.

I tested the resistance of the IACV, came out 9-10 ohms for both pins. The strange thing is that it makes a very high pitched electronic resonance whine, and gets somewhat warm after being on a while.

The intake manifold gaskets are new, but the car is sucking in so much air at idle, it's crazy. No smoke out of the oil cap though.

anothernord
11-24-2011, 12:20 PM
Another thing; once I got it to start, it idled like crap, threw a p0505, p01507, and had no power. I used a long screwdriver as a stethoscope for the injectors, and sure enough, the #2 injector wasn't firing. I pulled that, and now it runs!

The only thing is it makes a small hiccup every once in a while, like it's missing during cruise. Whatever, it runs!