Cheapest way to lower a BH, without cutting springs

[LegaWaga]

Ok, flame suit is on already for this thread. First off, I am NOT going to cut my springs, even though that is the cheapest way to lower things. This is my dd, so performance is not top priority, although, spirited drives to occur on occasion.

Two main questions here:

1) Anyone ever used the ebay springs here - http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-Sub ... 2314735098 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-Subaru-Legacy-Brand-New-Lowering-Coilover-Springs-Set-4-/150666956952?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ALegacy&vxp=mtr&hash=item2314735098)

2) Will any impreza parts swap over to the BHs like the older models will?

Thanks in advance!

[csweston]

1. You may as well cut your spings if your going to go with ebay springs.

2. IIRC something with the rear suspension on your car prevents the ability to just swap over. But im not by any means an expert on 3rd gen stuff.

In my optinion the best way to do it right, would be a set of H&R springs or equivalent quality.

[d1giPhux]

If you want a crappy, terrible, jarring ride, by all means go with a cheap suspension.

There is NO point in lowering your car if you don't get the right stuff. Seriously. Unless you like feeling like your riding on bricks, and love jarring and or bouncing all over the road.

If you buy cheap crap, your going to get a shitty ride. Bottom line. Its not worth it unless your willing to put a bit of money into it. Suspension is NOT cheap, and if you use cheap suspension components, or crappy springs, your going to waste money and decrease your cars 'performance' and ride. It really isn't worth it. Not only will you have to waste money on re-aligning your car with crap springs, but its going to ride like dog shit and make you wish you never bothered. Just save up and buy the good stuff first time around, that way you wont have to monkey around with suspension swaps and other junk that will waste your time and money.

[LegaWaga]

I figured the responses would go this way. I was hoping for someone to pop up who had tried them and could give an honest review.

How do the H&R springs fare with the stock shocks?

[d1giPhux]

running H&R springs with the stock shocks might work okay, but eventually they will be worn out and MAY bounce around a bit anyways. Usually people upgrade to KYB GR-2 struts at the same time, as they are a bit better than stock for running lowering springs.

The reason people dont trust / dont like ebay springs.. is because they are junk. I have run crap springs before in the past (not on my subaru), and trust me.. it is NOT worth it. Its just not worth wasting the time and money. You could spend a bit more and get some H&R's and not have to worry about re-selling crap springs, re-aligning the car, and overall being displeased with the purchase you made. Cheap springs are just NOT worth it. Theres a reason they are cheap. I'm all for finding the best deal, and cheap stuff.. but when it comes to springs, its a no go. I've ran crap springs before in the past, and it was the FIRST and ONLY time I will ever do it. Total waste of time, and felt like GARBAGE. Suspension stuff is expensive, there is just no way around it really. Your looking at around $300 for KYB GR-2's, then the cost of springs. If you install it yourself, you will save about another $400 or so. Its easy to do, but if you install junk springs and have to take them out again.. it is NOT fun and becomes time consuming.

[Okin DaVanh]

Raceland or BC coilovers.....

[Wiscon_Mark]

To answer the question about the BE/BH suspension - the rear multilink suspension is dramatically different in the rear (much shorter springs/struts) and will not work with any other Subaru style (AFAIK).

Fronts will work fine though. Not that it helps...

[MarkSubi]

Id Get BC's if I had the cash but Racelands are pretty good if you just daily your car and want to slam it for a lower price.

[LegaWaga]

racelands dont seem to be made for the 3rd gens sadly

[Bhatman]

Honestly, Id look into the KYB/HR setup or even scoring some Bilsteins...I run a BH wagon and used to run a BK with lowered STi suspension. I looked into it for a long long time and made sure the setup I was planning worked out and ran well with the vehicle. This time around with the BH I already know what setup (mild drop, possibly KYB...) I want, but I would never ever go with some ebay springs. If you research around and go on LegacyGT.com and also subaruoutback.org, theres lots of guys who have done a swap on a BH and have some more insight there as well.

[LegaWaga]

Well, I am certainly looking for at least a 2 inch drop. I want there to be a noticeable change.

[csweston]

You may also need low profile tires at that point. Just another thing to think about.

[LegaWaga]

I already have 17x7 +40 with 215/45 series tires on the car.

[d1giPhux]

It sounds like you already have your mind made up. Go grab the ebay springs and report back how they work! Just don't forget to get an alignment. At least we will know for sure how bad they are after you review them! :smt005

Honestly though, you can get some H&Rs for about $250 a set or less if you look around. Thats really not that much. Your looking at around $550 + - if you install new struts / springs and everything yourself. You can dis-assemble your current setup and just use the top hats, etc on the new setup. Just MAKE SURE you pay attention to how the springs go on, and try to dis-assemble and re-assemble each strut setup one at a time. That way you wont get confused, and can have a reference of other working ones to look at.

[Huffer]

TEIN make a set of Stechs... which suck but will give you a 2" drop. You'll hate it though if you're driving it daily.

Honestly though, even a set of BP/BL coilovers IF you can get them to work will still be harsh for a daily.

H&R springs on GR2 shocks are fine. If you want to go the quick route you can do springs on existing shocks, and then when your shocks are ready to be replaced, you have to disassemble the setup again and replace with the GR2's.

Also, places like 5mileimports.com sell Bilstein setups from BE/BH cars occasionally. They may also have access to JDM-spec coilovers if that's your flavor.

If it's your daily, don't cheap out - get something quality, with comfort and longevity in mind.

[LegaWaga]

Yeah, idk, I just keep tossing both ideas around.... cheap, or quality. On my MR2 I run a bilstein/eibach setup and the ride is perfect for what I need, and the drop was more than enough. I need to do some picture searching because I dont want to spend $250 on good springs, to only have a 1" drop, barely noticeable. The struts I was either way going to wait on to replace later either way.

My thought with the Ebay springs is that they are soo cheap, I could swallow that cost once just for the research value. they say they can lower to 4". That seems like a lot for sure. The spring rates are unknown, and probably low, but maybe if kept in the 1-2" range it wouldnt be so bad. It might be similar to those cheap "stance" coilovers, that only serve to slam and camber the car only. And we all know handling is harshly compromised that way.

Enough people buy them, and leave positive reviews, so it either isnt AS bad as you might think, or a ton of people just dont care...

I will do some more research before I decide. There isn't a lot of love for the BHs. lol

[Okin DaVanh]

I will do some more research before I decide.

Do that, as it looks like you just contradicted yourself.

[LegaWaga]

I will do some more research before I decide.

Do that, as it looks like you just contradicted yourself.

Not really. I was just thinking out loud. Basically, if I find a decent springs that lowers like I want but isnt terrible or expensive relatively, I will get it over the ebay springs. If it turns out to be twice the price for only one inch of drop, then I will give the ebay springs a try.

[SativaMan04]

Do it right the first time.

[mshriver]

The ebay springs will ruin your struts within a month. Then your point of going cheap was just pointless because then you will need all new suspension. Either leave it stock, or get a good coilover or spring /strut setup.

And yes I have had them. Not on a subaru but on a mk2 VW. The only reason they can lower so far is because the spring is way too small for the strut. So basically your strut is compressed all the time and if you hit a bump you get open space between the top of the spring and strut, so you basically bounce all the time.

I would only recommend them for a cheap beater that you plan on driving a few months till it falls apart. Otherwise dumb idea. I honestly cant even imagine how bad they would be on a heavier car like a legacy as compared to my mk2.

Car in question
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8653/s5000141pm4.jpg

[Huffer]

A 1" drop on any properly manufactured spring is rare - on my King Springs Low they quote a 35-40mm drop. That's a 1.3" - 1.5" drop. It's significant and you will definitely notice the difference in wheel gap disappearing, and in overall ride height.

Before:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/12/IMG_0450-1.jpg

After:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/12/0908242-1.jpg

Now:
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/08/53ff0a5b-1.jpg

They have settled slightly.

In the end, your car, your decision - just do it in a manner that keeps you and other road users safe.

[d1giPhux]

Yeah.. you really don't want to go over 1". Trust me. Unless you like a terrible ride and love passengers bitching at you and telling you what a shit-box your car is. Go with the H&R's.. you will like them. Or better yet.. if EIBACH makes a set for your car, those are TOP OF THE LINE.

[chuckthefuk]

Mshiver is right.

I've used the genuine version made by Ground Control. The design is a half-ass'd Adjustable Spring over Strut.

Bang, Clunk, Boing.. Judder..

These are the sounds, feelings you will experince with them.

I've installed them on even much newer cars like a Hyundia Tiburon/Genesis with the same result. $400+ for genuine versions that still causes the struts to leak was a one expensive epic fail.

Save man.. Its not that hard.. just takes time.. Besides its much easier for a shop / you to install a full coil-over compared to these units.

-Chuck

[LegaWaga]

If I find a good deal on a used set of coils, you can bet that will be my solution. I just have standards when it comes to wheel gap, and wagons are not exempt. lol

Like this for example. Here is my 91 MR2 with just bilstein struts and 16" wheels back in the day.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/12/443271573_hoHgpL-1.jpg

And here is how the car sits now with 17/18" wheels and the eibach sportline springs. I love the drop and the ride. I have no reason for for more drop, or performance out of a car that is not tracked other than autox from time to time

http://bryancooper.smugmug.com/Other/Photos-on-the-Go/i-rbzQmrf/0/L/untitled-46-L.jpg

Here is my subaru in question:

http://bryancooper.smugmug.com/Automotive/Civic-and-Legacy-Mill-Shoot/i-NX69qFT/0/L/IMG7725-L.jpg

As we all know, with the addition low-pro tires comes the "need" for a suspension drop. A 1" drop would not be worth my money here in my opinion. That drop on the older gen wagon above, would not fill my need for less wheel gap. The newer legacies do have a much more attractive setup from the factory now.

Now, I am biased as this is my inspiration....
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/166350_1526859896740_1391940076_31216002_7916395_n.jpg

And yes, I am aware that will require coilovers for sure.

A real question I have here, is how much harder and bouncier will el cheapo springs be compared to coilovers that are set that low?

[chuckthefuk]

Coilovers set that low even with soft dampening they wont bounce if the unit is healthy.

Springs will be harsh and bounce like crazy but not a huge up/down motion.. this is where upgraded struts come into play.

You will have to roll your fenders 100% if you want to go as low as that MR2.

[MRLancaster]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/12/silver-1.jpg
^ 18's
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/12/choroq311-1.jpg
^17's (Current)
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/0609011316c-1.jpg
16's (with the Outback moster truck wheels on)
I'm running H&R Springs, and KYB Gr2 Struts. Spent 500$ installed them myself. Very easy to install, amazing ride quality.
The front suspension works with impreza's and the rear works with BL and BP Legacys.
Dont go cheap. Save your money. Coilovers for the BH's and BE's are expensive. There arent cheap coilovers for our generation. Sorry

[LegaWaga]

Yeah fender rolling is almost mandatory for my cars. lol I am not a fan of pulled fenders, just flattening down that inside lip of course.


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/12/silver-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2011/06/0609011316c-1.jpg
(with the Outback wheels on)
I'm running H&R Springs, and KYB Gr2 Struts. Spent 500$ installed them myself. Very easy to install, amazing ride quality.
The front suspension works with impreza's and the rear works with BL and BP Legacys.
Dont go cheap. Save your money. Coilovers for the BH's and BE's are expensive. There arent cheap coilovers for our generation. Sorry

That looks very acceptable really. Very streetable from the looks of it. I am currently searching for pictures and parts right now, and you just saved me a lot of time with those pics. Seeing the setup with the outback wheels and with the rotas is also a huge help here.

[MRLancaster]

I scrape here and there on certain inclined parking lots ect, my friend with an RS wants my setup since its a very smooth ride. Ive yet to have to roll my fenders. Like I said, I spent 500$ and couldnt be happier. I still go on very joyful rides and have zero issues. Ive had no problem with snow either (Live in the mountains) And before I got it painted, I did plenty of spirited gravel driving.

[MRLancaster]

And when you start looking, sedan and wagon dont matter. They are the same for our chassis

[LegaWaga]

Yeah that much I just figured out really.

[Shane01BH]

I'm running H&R Springs, and KYB Gr2 Struts. Spent 500$ installed them myself. Very easy to install, amazing ride quality.
The front suspension works with impreza's and the rear works with BL and BP Legacys.
Dont go cheap. Save your money. Coilovers for the BH's and BE's are expensive. There arent cheap coilovers for our generation. Sorry

Just to clarify, did you follow the post "lower your outback the (hard) right way" sticky??

I'm due for struts and plan the proper H&R / new strut route. I'm still debating between Bilstein and KYB.

Thanks!
Shane

[MRLancaster]

Nope, not many people do.

[Bhatman]

I'm running H&R Springs, and KYB Gr2 Struts. Spent 500$ installed them myself. Very easy to install, amazing ride quality.
The front suspension works with impreza's and the rear works with BL and BP Legacys.
Dont go cheap. Save your money. Coilovers for the BH's and BE's are expensive. There arent cheap coilovers for our generation. Sorry

Just to clarify, did you follow the post "lower your outback the (hard) right way" sticky??

I'm due for struts and plan the proper H&R / new strut route. I'm still debating between Bilstein and KYB.

Thanks!
Shane

The write up is meant mostly for BG's and honestly I ran my old 98 setup without changing anything sans braces and sways and it rode like rails. If you can find the Bilsteins, then I would go after them, otherwise the KYB GR2's are direct OEM replacements.(Go for GT struts, not the Outback).