"Overheating"

[Okin DaVanh]

This is just 1 of the 2 threads I found: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19329&p=217160&hilit=overflow+spilling#p217160 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19329&p=217160&hilit=overflow+spilling#p217160))



Car/motor: 96 EJ25





Scenario:
I'll start the car and begin to drive to what has been normal temp for me ( for the past 2 months since I bought it and had NO) issues) which has been just above the 1/4 mark. Continue driving at a normal rate of speed etc... things appear Ok. After about 15-20 mins of driving the car, It comes up to mid level and creeps towards the overheat level indicator, but won't go into overheat just yet. Pull over, and the weep hole on the overflow tank, starts spitting up antifreeze and the radiator is empty. Fill it back up, burp it. With the system burped, radiator cap on, overflow tank on the "full" mark and car running at idle with NO signs of overheating. I'll drive it for awhile. And after a little while driving the car, it looks like the gauge creeps up a hair, then when the pedal is released.... drops down. Hoses stay soft, but both are hot.


Now my Hypothesis :smt002 Waterpump is junk.

*Edit*
Swapped:
Thermostat/Gasket and Waterpump/Gasket, Same results. On 2/5 I changed the radiator and it improved, but after getting off the highway and slowing down, it starts to go up, but doesn't overheat.

[tylerkroh]

ya know im just spit ballin here but have you checked the radiator cap? I dont think its the water pump because i dont think it would cause the fluid to be pushed into your overflow and have the lines become unpressurized, i also wouldnt jump at the headgasket until you look for leaks all around and if it is leaking into the cylinders you would most likely cause a miss in that cylinder(i had an s10 with this problem),the thermostat doesnt make sense to me either because to my knowledge the thermostat can cause overheating by not opening and also cause it to run cooler because its stuck open but i dont see how it would push it out of the radiator. These are just my thoughts and anyone can shut them down or argue them but i would check the cap because they have two holes in them, one lets the pressure of the system go into the overflow, and the other lets the vacuum, that is caused by the cooling down of the engine, pull the coolant back into the radiator. like i said i dont want to tell you that the cap is your problem or the other things you mentioned aren't the problem i figured i would just leave my thoughts.

edit: Now that i think about this a little it could actually be your headgasket, because if its a small hole it can be pumping pressure into your coolant but it might not be big enough to allow enough coolant into the cylinder to cause a miss.

[Okin DaVanh]

Headgaskets were done in August. A month and a half before I picked up the car and with the revised gaskets from Subaru. Both heads were sent out and checked too. I did change the cap, I'm going to swap back to the old 1 again and see what happens.

[Reason]

I would check the head bolts to see if they are torqued to spec. I had an over heat issue and there was one bolt not correct. Ever since then I haven't had a problem.

1. Burp system (did you do it with the front end jacked up? Also when I "burp" the system I keep track and add more coolant every 100 miles till I don't need it. I also release any built up pressure at the pressure release of the left side of the radiator)

2. Swap that rad cap for shits, make sure coolant is filled.

3. check torque on head bolts, don't over tighten, just check.

4. check weephole on water pump

5. swap thermostat

6. do a compression test or a leakdown test

7. headgaskets are bad (replace)

8. heads are warped or the HG surface is not good

9. from there what is the car worth to you?

This is the order I would look into things.

[httrdd]

Yea if headgaskets were done (correctly) then i would assume thermostat. It my just be faulty. Also if it is not the thermostat and you continue to get air in some where it would have to be in a high place, like heater core or rad cap.

[Reason]

I didn't even think of the heater core, like TJ said that could be a possiblity too.

[Okin DaVanh]

I would check the head bolts to see if they are torqued to spec. I had an over heat issue and there was one bolt not correct. Ever since then I haven't had a problem.

3. check torque on head bolts, don't over tighten, just check.




This is the only thing I didn't check was this, there are no other signs of leakage from the heads or block as I put a cardboard sheet under it last night.
Everything else on that list has already been checked as I've worked on cars before.... Subarus too. :wink:



Yea if headgaskets were done (correctly) then i would assume thermostat. It my just be faulty. Also if it is not the thermostat and you continue to get air in some where it would have to be in a high place, like heater core or rad cap.

As much as I've been reading so far, if it were a faulty thermo, it should have shown issues from the start, but that's not to say that this 1 might be going/gone bad. Guess I'll start throwing parts at it. Sucks, because after $20 (yep, that's all I'm giving it) I'm going to call it a wrap. Take my personal stuff out, and get rid of it.

[Reason]

Well you are asking for help, so all options need to be explored. We all work on cars, yet we are still here asking questions and looking for help :wink:

[httrdd]

Damn man 20 bucks. At least try the thermostat and the rad cap. Cheap fix and you can eliminate those as suspects. I know you know, but if you dont go OEM ONLY!

[Dead91silvia]

I have had the same problems with a couple customers cars. One was literally after installing a new water pump and could not keep it from over heating.

I fixed it by driving the piss out of it for a block, then coming back to the shop. Did that a couple times. It burped it like it needed. Didnt have a problem after that. It took me a ling time to get another customers L to burp after just a water pump.

The currant problem with my BD is a popped HG, but I expected it and the motor is coming out already. It could be a water pump, thermostat, rad cap, or air in the system... Typical temp's for the 2nd gen cars run right at mid gauge, if not a little lower

[Okin DaVanh]

:smt011

[mshriver]

Sounds like the HGs were not done correctly if its pushing the coolant out of the radiator

[Okin DaVanh]

***Update ***
Opened the hood, took of radiator cap (didnt replace with my original yet)
Loosened bleeder screw
Popped off overflow tank cap
Filled all to their respective levels.
Started car, ran for a little while until fans (yes, both would come on intermittently) and topped off as needed.
Closed/capped everything
Went for a drive. Same thing. :smt011
Hoses soft, radiator cap cold and coolant spilling out of overflow.
I crack the bleeder screw, Hot steam. Radiator cap still cold.
Took the bleeder cap clear off. Steam/ cool to the touch radiator cap and overflow tank overflows when I try to remove the cap for the radiator.
Car is NOT overheating until I try to drive it. Even without the radiator cap or bleeder screw on it while stationary.
Yes, I did do this for the 3rd time, jacked up in the front and the same thing. Again, NO pressure in the hoses and before and after the fans came on, there was plenty of heat.




There is no coolant in the oil, no white smoke etc...

I'm sure I'm forgetting to type something, as I just spent an hour outside and my hands are freezing as I type. I'll try to update this again, as I just found my old cap.

[httrdd]

Are you squeezing the bottom hose to get all of the air out? Squeeze the hose intemittently to force air out. I am guessing bottom hose warm and top hose cool?

[Okin DaVanh]

Nah, both hoses warm to the touch.

[httrdd]

Ok damn then you have an excess pressure problem if you are pouring into your overflow. Headgasket or like someone said head bolts.

[Reason]

OK so it's a flow problem, the t state must be stuck closed. Usually there's a fail safe and get stuck open.

[tylerkroh]

you can check your t stat by taking it out and suspending it in water and then bringing it to a boil, make sure you have a thermometer in the pot with it so you can check what temp it opens, if it doesnt open then replace it.

[Okin DaVanh]

ya know im just spit ballin here but have you checked the radiator cap?

I replaced the cap with the 1 that was originally on it and so far, things are OK.Took it for a ride to pick up my sister on backroads and stop and go traffic. It hasn't overflowed or overheated. I still have to change the waterpump tho. It's got the humming and no true pressure in the hoses.

[tylerkroh]

ya know im just spit ballin here but have you checked the radiator cap?


You're a freakin genius! :smt023 Success!!.

I replaced the cap with the 1 that was originally on it and so far, things are OK.Took it for a ride to pick up my sister on backroads and stop and go traffic. It hasn't overflowed or overheated. I still have to change the waterpump tho. It's got the humming and no true pressure in the hoses. Cross your fingers, as I still have to check it again in the AM.

Cliff notes:
Swapped original radiator cap back on after filling and burping system.
Drove car 15miles round trip to pick up my sister.
Got home safely with no overheating or spillage.

just helpin a fellow member haha

[eekay]

Radiator cap! Hah! I'm glad everything seems to be working now. :)

[Okin DaVanh]

:wink:

[Okin DaVanh]

Still doing the same thing.

[httrdd]

Yea i was hoping that was all, but it is never the end. Lol

[Reason]

OK so it's a flow problem, the t state must be stuck closed. Usually there's a fail safe and get stuck open.

remove the t stat

[Okin DaVanh]

Yeah, i'm on it but still can't get 1 yet. Just going to put the car away or keep playing with the "free" repairs til then.

[Reason]

No don't put another one in. Just take that one out, burp the system and see how it goes. It's FREE :smt023

[Okin DaVanh]

No don't put another one in. Just take that one out, burp the system and see how it goes. It's FREE :smt023

:lol: That's what I meant, but I would still have to buy another 1if it were the thermostat, as I wouldn't drive it like that.

[Reason]

With no thermostat in, it will just take a little longer to warm up. It won't damage the car in anyway. Do it and find out if its the issue.

[d1giPhux]

Any possibility that your thermostat is partially plugged? You could test this by using a infra-red laser thermometer. I know.. if you don't have one, its a bit of a hassle. However, if the car overheats, and you have access to one.. try testing various areas of the radiator after the overheat occurs. See if any parts are colders / hotter than others. Its possible that if you didn't flush the radiator much (who does??) that its partially clogged or something along those lines.

Next test in line would be the boiling water thermostat test.

Also, are your cooling fans working?

Hope you can figure this out..

[Okin DaVanh]

Could be partially/fully clogged. Both fans do come on intermittently.

[mshriver]

I hate to keep trying to be the bearer of bad news but Ill say it again. Headgasket.

Ive had two cars do this exact same thing. HG both times

Just because it was done before, doesnt mean it was done right. I replaced my HG with a gasket from a cheap ebay kit and it lasted less than a year and was professionally installed. A crappy non oem gasket could have been used or the head bolts may not have been tightened correctly. Subaru also has a special antifreeze additive because normal antifreeze eats away the headgaskets. Heads could have been warped and not machined when new gaskets were installed too, or done wrong.

When they blow it tends to be an internal leak and doesnt cause white smoke or any oil in the coolant. It just causes a way for pressure from the engine to enter the water jacket and push the coolant out and into the overflow tank.

I really hope its just the thermostat for you but I just have to mention the worst case scenario. Something is causing pressure, either your Tstat is stuck shut and your water pump is pushing coolant through the engine and it has no where to go once it gets back to the radiator, or the hg has a leak and pushing it out of the water jackets.

Hoping its the $20 Tstat

[Okin DaVanh]

Yeah, me too since I just went outside; filled it up again and burped it to find out, The lower hose stays cold and the cap too.

[Okin DaVanh]

Swapped the thermostat with a new 1 from Subaru with gasket. Same thing. Waterpump is next....

[d1giPhux]

has the water pump ever been done in the car? If not.. that may be a good bet. Do you think that its weird it would take that long to overheat? or normal considering its winter?

[Okin DaVanh]

Its just when i squeeze the top or lower hose after its been running, theyre both hot but barely have any pressure. also, if i dont turn the heat on, it'll take a little longer to Begin to overheat. it seems as if it's not circulating the water at all. just barely circulating whats in it, then as if the systems backed up, it begins to fill the overflow and pressure from the intake side blocks it off. not sure if thats it, but in another few weeks, ill probably get a waterpump and go from there. my current weaterpump sounds like a powersteering pump thats starting to let go.

[d1giPhux]

You sure your radiator just isnt plugged? Sounds a bit like it might be. I was searching around for this issue and found a couple owners with the same symptoms who had clogged radiators. It would be a bit of a pain to test that however. Not sure if you could get a hold of a pressure test system or something? Meh.. that costs money. But i dunno, sounds a bit to me like it COULD be the radiator. But.. don't take my word for it, I'm not a pro.

I wonder if there are some other ways of testing the water pump?

[02_Legacy]

My question is can a water pump go bad in a way that it stops circulating coolant. I have heard of the bearings and seals going bad but It would seem weird that it stops circulating the coolant. There is a pretty direct link from the pulley to the rotor, if one is turning then the other must be turning also.

[Reason]

exactly, unless all the fins break off completely then you have bigger issues. No circulation means the T stat isn't opening up, or theres a clog in the heater core or somewhere else...I think its a t stat issue.

[Okin DaVanh]

its a brand new 1 from the dealer so i that makes no sense to me

[Reason]

Then most likely it's not the T stat then. BUT I had a t stat issue with my GT, I bought one T stat still had the problem, bought a second one and it went away. It can happen with any new part, nothing is perfect. You should try to perform a full system flush. Your radiator could be clogged as well.

[harrymaneuvers]

Its just when i squeeze the top or lower hose after its been running, theyre both hot but barely have any pressure. also, if i dont turn the heat on, it'll take a little longer to Begin to overheat. it seems as if it's not circulating the water at all. just barely circulating whats in it, then as if the systems backed up, it begins to fill the overflow and pressure from the intake side blocks it off. not sure if thats it, but in another few weeks, ill probably get a waterpump and go from there. my current weaterpump sounds like a powersteering pump thats starting to let go.



This to me seems like there is a restriction at some point in your cooling system... if anywhere in the system is starting to impeed the full flow, then the overflow would start to get backed up right?

Sounds like your cooling system IS cooling, but not at the rate that it needs too.


When my ladies WRX wagon started to have heating issues, it turned out to be the radiator with 141k miles on it. It just couldnt keep up with the engines cooling needs, the issue was especially obvious during really hot weather and long uphill accelerations.


If you are replacing items in order of cost and easy of replacement, I think radiator would be before water pump.

I replaced the radiator in the wrx (automatic) and it was less than $100 from autozone (spectra brand) with lifetime replacement warrany. Took me 1 hour or so to replace, refill and burp the system.

How many miles do you have on the radiator? Also, when you take a flashlight and look at the top and side seems, do you see any signs of a small crack or leak? My ladies radiator wasnt noticibly leaking but once it was out and I could inspect it, I could tell from dripline of corrosion that there had to have been a leak along the top of it for quite some time.

[02_Legacy]

Thinking this over I would have to say that there is a restriction somewhere. The water pump is probably trying to move the coolant but it has no where to go. Even when the thermostat is closed the coolant has to circulate the engine. If it does not the hotter coolant cannot get to the thermostat to get it to open. Do you know if the former owners used stop leak or something similar when the head gasket started going? That stuff can do alot of damage when it is in a cooling system.

Also what you said about the hoses not having pressure does not make sense to me. If the system is blowing coolest into the overflow there has to be about 15 PSI of pressure in the system to open the cap, unless the cap is bad.

[Grafton]

I have had something similar happen on my car twice (once on the 2.2 and once on my 2.5) for my 2.2L it was the waterpump, for the 2.5L it was head-gaskets, I suggest a ~$40 block tester from napa to make sure its not the headgaskets

[d1giPhux]

Yeah, or find someone with a tester that can help you see if its the headgaskets. Thats probably the first thing you want to rule out. Once you rule that out, then I would say its the radiator being clogged or something like that. Not sure how you could UNCLOG it for free, but a new RAD wouldn't be too much. Might even be able to score a used one for cheap if you wanted to. Hopefully you can source some help or people with testing tools that could possibly help.

[Okin DaVanh]

Had some time to play with it today. found out that the fan does not come on. If i turn the defrost on, it will kick both fans on. However, up on ramps/burped, the single fan does not come on at all when I take it off defrost.

[httrdd]

Hmmm. I believe that the fans only come on at a certain temp. Run the temp a little high and see if the fans are on. If not there are relays from tge ecu i believe. Both fans come on when a/c is activated hence the defrost.

[Okin DaVanh]

Hmmm. I believe that the fans only come on at a certain temp. Run the temp a little high and see if the fans are on. If not there are relays from tge ecu i believe. Both fans come on when a/c is activated hence the defrost.
I let it run for 20 mins parked. Didn't notice it come on when I was driving either. I'll have to re-check that too.

By the time I get to where it is, get it set up and burped, it's time for me to leave. I was out working on it, and 2 very experienced techs also thought the same thing I was thinking from the beginning. Waterpump. No oil /gas etc in coolant, no bubbles, and the hoses don't get firm even after burping it. I was thinking by next weekend, to tear it down/ pull the waterpump and get this over with.

[02_Legacy]

Did you ever do a pressure test on it? Maybe there is a leak somewhere that is letting air into the system. That is what happened to me. After I replaced the water pump it was leaking at the thermostat gasket causing air in the system, causing it to overheat.

Edit: I'm not saying that it is not the water pump, if that is what you feel it is go for it. I am just throwing out suggestions and pointers as to how I would troubleshoot the problem.

[Okin DaVanh]

Did you ever do a pressure test on it? .............I am just throwing out suggestions and pointers as to how I would troubleshoot the problem.


Not yet, and I appreciate the suggestions! I did check (visually) to see if there were any leaks before swapping the thermostat, and I found nothing. I think I'll have an extra hour this weekend to go through it some more. I have set up a Hydro Carbon test as well as time to remove the waterpump at a friends shop, so I'm hoping to have some serious progress this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed...

[httrdd]

Good luck.

[jjay03]

My car spit a bunch of coolant out the over flow yesterday on the way to work. I revved it a little higher then normal on the highway on the way to work. I filled the coolant back up and drove home with no issues. Today I picked up a subaru rad cap and thermostat. I replaced the cap and waiting to see if it acts up again to do the t-stat.
Im worried mine might be the HG or the bolts not being torqued right and the high rpms causing the issues to arise.I only owned the car since october.
There is no coolant in the oil and I never noticed any white smoke out the tail pipe.

[Okin DaVanh]

My car spit a bunch of coolant out the over flow yesterday on the way to work.


Not good. Well, today I had a chance to drop by and give it a quick look. I found out that it IS leaking near the waterpump. Hoping to pick 1 up soon, as I haven't driven this thing in over a month!

[httrdd]

Yay seepage is a good thing! At least you now identified the problem.

[02_Legacy]

Not good. Well, today I had a chance to drop by and give it a quick look. I found out that it IS leaking near the waterpump. Hoping to pick 1 up soon, as I haven't driven this thing in over a month!
Cool can you identify if it is coming out the weep hole or the gasket? If it is just leaking at the gasket it is a quick $5 and done. Mine was actually leaking at the gasket, I did not take the time to check and replaced the whole thing. When I went to take it apart the bolts holding it in were about finger tight :shock:
I don't know if these pumps are compatible but I still have the one I took off if you want it.

[Okin DaVanh]

Cool can you identify if it is coming out the weep hole or the gasket?
I don't know if these pumps are compatible but I still have the one I took off if you want it.

I won't be able to take it apart til this weekend... or maybe not due to a storm coming. And I don't think your model/year would work on my old 96 2.5. I wish it would. Do you have a pic of it?

[httrdd]

I would not mess with putting a used water pump in though. Can we donate to you to help the cause. My paypal is cleared up so i can send you that 20. Send those parts in the next couple of months. Lol. I hate seeing you without a car.

[Okin DaVanh]

I wish! 'Cause now MY paypal is screwed up!! WTF is up with them??? I'm going to try to get a side job doing some plastic welding on a friends StreetBike build. Hopefully, it will net me some $$ to get the pump/gasket.

[Huffer]

Okin, holler at me if you need some assistance. I'm sure we can help an O.G. out. :)

[Okin DaVanh]

Okin, holler at me if you need some assistance. I'm sure we can help an O.G. out. :)
I might need that assistance.. :neutral: Just talked to him, and he's taking the bike in another direction. I'll let you guys know how I make out, as I'm still knocking on doors of locals to see if they need any work/maintenance etc... done. Hopefully I'll land something asap.

[httrdd]

Ok man let us know. And try to fix that paypal!

[Okin DaVanh]

Another Update.

I went to where it was and decided to bring it home and take off the belts and cover to expose the waterpump. If the weep hole (didn't jack it up, did it all from the top) is above the thermostat towards the passenger side, It's definitely the waterpump.

I had to hurry thru it all, as I didn't want to get caught up working on my car in the lot.

[httrdd]

Good now let us get one for you damnit!

[Okin DaVanh]

lol! I'm going to go through my paypal notices and even try logging in again to see what happens.

[Okin DaVanh]

Well, fixed the paypal. My error not theirs. I'm going to get some pics up too, seeing as it's probably the least I can do to explain what happened. The pulleys (cogs or whatever they're called today =))also looked like they were replaced, so I'm guessing/hoping crappy waterpump from GMB. Tomorrow we'll be having some serious weather, so tearing into it a bit further might have to wait til Saturday/Sunday.

[httrdd]

Ok sending paypal. Ummm what is it again? Lol.

[Okin DaVanh]

Should be tearing the rest of the front of my motor down today and getting a gasket this afternoon. Picked up a used pump to test (I'd still replace it with a new 1 if in fact this is what's wrong) Hoping this is it as far as my overheating goes. If so, It will be a little while before I can get a new 1 and do this again. If not, I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do with the car then.

[httrdd]

That should work temporarily. Be sure to get one soon. Btw.....WHAT IS YOUR PAYPAL?

[Okin DaVanh]

The symptoms

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/01/DSCN2576-1.jpg
Pulled the old pump:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/01/DSCN2580-1.jpg

Weep hole leakage?
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/01/DSCN2585-1.jpg

Difference between the original (top) and the temporary 1 I'm going to replace it with.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/01/DSCN2584-1.jpg

[httrdd]

That looks to be the weep hole you are asking about. Was the pump ssized at all. Funny thing was tgat mine was not when it went bad on the Eg33.

[Okin DaVanh]

Nah, not at all. Matter of fact, that was the first thing I attempted to do was to spin it.

[Okin DaVanh]

Ok. Put it all back together, went for a drive and thought everything was ok since I was getting pressure on the hoses finally.... Not the case. After a little more driving, the temp crept up and when I turned on the heat it went back down to half way and would fluctuate between 1/2 and 3/4. If I leave it parked, it won't move at all. At first glance, I thought the fans weren't coming on, but after a quick drive and then parking it (with the heat turned off) I noticed both fans came on.

Now, I just put on a 1.1 (or 1.0) radiator cap and I don't think it'll make a difference but at this point, I'll try anything.
If it's the headgasket, I'm done.

[Huffer]

You must be losing pressure somewhere. Somewhere in your rad system is either an air pocket, or a leak. If you're leaking, that explains the lack of pressure. If the engine is literally consuming coolant, HG.

[mshriver]

If it were the headgasket, it would beltch all of the coolant out of the overflow and wouldnt cool down until you refilled the radiator. So I dont think that is your problem.

Im thinking bad radiator and water pump combo. Your temporary water pump fixed your pressure issue so thats a plus but now theres not enough cooling once you are moving.... weird. Im thinking radiator

[Okin DaVanh]

I guess you guys can see why I'm confused. This isn't my first Legacy, and as most know, I've rebuilt a couple already. It's just frustrating, and i don't even have the tools or place to work on them anymore. I'm going to take a shot at jacking it up 1 day, and leaving it like that overnight with the bleeder screw and cap off. Just hope I don't get questioned by property management. Going to go down in a few minutes to check to see what else i can find.

[Okin DaVanh]

Parts so far=
-OEM thermostat/gasket
-Waterpump
-Radiator Cap

Add new radiator to that list .

I just got done, and after the kids are settled in from school, I'm going to go back out and check up on it.

[Okin DaVanh]

Quick update

Swapped:
Thermostat/Gasket and Waterpump/Gasket, Same results. On 2/5 I changed the radiator and it improved, but both fans would come on (fail safe?) after a little while. So I took a shot at a highway run. I drove 40 miles at highway speeds for about 40 minutes or so. After getting off the highway and slowing down it starts to go up, but doesn't overheat. I currently have it up on ramps, filled it and left the cap and bleeder screw off. Going to check on it in a few.

It did fine around town and didn't overheat for about 25-30 of city driving.

[eekay]

Hrm. So, perhaps there are still a few small air pockets? Seems the radiator is definitely helping.

[harrymaneuvers]

Air pockets would cause the temp to jump way before 40 minutes of highway driving...

So your cooling system can keep up at highway speeds but once you slow down it starts to heat up...

To me this still sounds like cooling fans... I mean the wind and airflow when going 60mph is enought to keep your engine temps down... but once you lose that air speed it is your fans job to kick on and cool you down to where they can shut off.


If you just start it up cold and let it idle until it is warm, will it heat up enough to kick on the cooling fans or is it able to maintain its temperature forever without needing the cooling fans?


Last thing I can think of would be if either your top or bottom radiator hoses arent kinked... but maybe bent at too harsh of an angle... collapsing the tube enough to cause the slightest restriction in the rate at which the coolant can phisically be pushed through the cooling system.

[Okin DaVanh]

So your cooling system can keep up at highway speeds but once you slow down it starts to heat up...

To me this still sounds like cooling fans...


If you just start it up cold and let it idle until it is warm, will it heat up enough to kick on the cooling fans or is it able to maintain its temperature forever without needing the cooling fans?


1.Yes. Exactly.
2. Exactly
3. Maintain it's temp forever without needing the fans. And when they do kick on, I believe they're in failsafe mode, as both would come on (at the same time) after a drive.

[harrymaneuvers]

I dont think one fan should ever come on without the other... but they should always be running the same speed... I am pretty sure there is a high speed and a low speed.

If ever one fan is spinning at a different speed than the other you have a problem and if ever one fan is spinning and the other is not you have a problem.

I would also help to start watching the temp on a scangauge... the needle gauge is not very accurate at all.

If you have a scangauge or similar... what is the hottest that the car can get just sitting and idling? Then what is the maximum temp that the car gets to on the highway.


I am still pointing towards SOMETHING in your system that isnt allowing it to push coolant as efficiently as it needs too. When you took the last radiator out, did it have tons of crap in it? What about the bottom of your resevior tank? Someone might have at one point put stop leak in there or used the wrong coolant and gummed it up.


When I was diagonosing the ladies wrx overheating issues... i found it usefull to drop the plug out the bottom of the block... the one that plugs the water jacket (?)

Then you can fill your block with coolant and it will drain out of the block without having to remove the lower rad hose or even the therm.


Here is a shot of the plug... it is right behind the water therm housing and you dont have to remove the exhaust either:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

Removed:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/

[eekay]

Hrm. I've never even noticed that plug before! Nice idea!

[httrdd]

You are wrong bud. There is only one fan that runs until the second one is needed or comes on with the a/c.

[harrymaneuvers]

I apologize, I just checked the service manual... you are right httrdd, I was thinking of the wrx... the BD/BG has one fan for a main and another fan for the aux/sub fan... not two fans that work in unisom on a high/low setting.


That is even more suspect of an impedance in the rate at which coolant can flow... even with both fan running (because there arent two speeds for them to run right?) it is working at max to try to cool itself... and it cant...


So it is either producing more than necessary heat for some reason (much bigger problem?), or it cant get rid of the same heat that it has always produced... I think a good flushing of the cooling system as well as a hard look at those upper and lower radiator hose bends is in order.

[Okin DaVanh]

... I think a good flushing of the cooling system as well as a hard look at those upper and lower radiator hose bends is in order.

Technically, I've flushed this a few times :lol: With swapping the thermostat, then the waterpump and then the radiator all at different times... I would say, it's been flushed.


I have yet to see only 1 fan come on in this car. I was thinking of swapping the coolant temp sensor (1 that sends signal to ECU) for that problem, and maybe even check my heater core (altho I have heat and no leaking) just for the fun of it.

[Okin DaVanh]

just a pic of my temp gauge at running temp.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2012/02/DSCN2589-2.jpg

[harrymaneuvers]

That is where the temp gauge stays if you let it idle until it is warm?!?!?!?!

That seems way too low...

[02_Legacy]

Have you confirmed that there is a problem and it is not just the gauge throwing you off? Does coolant overfill the reservoir when it overheats? I think that you should try and find a scantool that you can borrow and look at the temps that the computer is seeing. Look for the time to get up to temp (make sure the thermo is not stuck open), how well it maintains that temp (theoretically when the thermo first opens the temp should cycle up and down a little as cold coolant from the rad gets into the engine and then maintain a steady reading slightly above the thermos rated temp), the temp that the fan(s) turn on, and the temp that it reaches under certain conditions (city driving, highway driving, idling, ect) This will allow you to tell more specifically when the problem occurs, and how bad it actually is. It will also give you a basis as to the amount that you should rely on your temp gauge on your dash.

[harrymaneuvers]

^This...


Reading an overheating engine through a dash gauge vs a scantool is night and day... Seeing how quickly it is heating up and down in certain conditions is pivotal...


If you dont have a full scan tool... this is pretty cool:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/bay-area-1 ... 3D-229421/ (http://www.i-club.com/forums/bay-area-15/android-phone-$25-ebay-bluetooth-obd2-$5-app-%3D-229421/)

[CORVAIRWILD]

Aaarrrgggghhhhhhhh... I read this from beginning to end over a couple days... I HATE these hidden probs. good luck man!

[Okin DaVanh]

That is where the temp gauge stays if you let it idle until it is warm?!?!?!?
That seems way too low...
Yep. I thought so too.


Have you confirmed that there is a problem and it is not just the gauge throwing you off? Does coolant overfill the reservoir when it overheats? I think that you should try and find a scantool that you can borrow and look at the temps that the computer is seeing.

Look for the time to get up to temp , how well it maintains that temp, the temp that the fan(s) turn on, and the temp that it reaches under certain conditions (city driving, highway driving, idling, ect) This will allow you to tell more specifically when the problem occurs, and how bad it actually is. It will also give you a basis as to the amount that you should rely on your temp gauge on your dash.

-I do still have coolant spitting out, but that now happens after a highway run.
-It warms up fine, and starts to throw warm heat after 5 mins or so.
-And I will try to get a scanner to run it under.
I was thinking my next step should be the Coolant Temp. Switch. but will still test it through the scanner (hoping I get 1 to use) and see what i come up with.




Aaarrrgggghhhhhhhh... I read this from beginning to end over a couple days... I HATE these hidden probs. good luck man!
You're telling me! :lol: Look at the date this all started and add a week or 2 before then, and you'll have the last time I REALLYdrove this car!! :smt009

[CORVAIRWILD]

I wonder if my radiator pressure tester would reveal anything? Sometimes the FLAPS will lend certain tools out... My tester could pressurize the cooling system, and it reveals any leaks. Obviously, internal leaks are hidden, but the dropping pressure needle shows a leak. I've used it on a variety of vehicles, and it's certainly a useful tool.
What about some dye that discolors when subject to combustion gas? Or am I imagining something?

[Okin DaVanh]

I did the "Sniff" test (chemical in turkey baste looking set up) and it turned up no fumes in coolant. However, I didn't (was almost about to) do a pressure test.

I'm under the impression that since my fan doesn't come on when it's supposed to, and when it does, both come on... that I should still change the coolant temp sensor. I'm also thinking that there might be an air pocket where that sensor is, due to me changing the temp sender a week or so before this started.

[CORVAIRWILD]

Your "monitor" says "offline" Hmmm....

[Okin DaVanh]

Your "monitor" says "offline" Hmmm....


I know somebody who knew somebody, who seen somebody... :wink:

[mshriver]

So two things Im thinking...

Have you tried the same highway test with the AC on? Doesnt have to be cold air but like your heat turned to just defrost. This should cause your fans to be running and you would know if it was a fan issue.

Secondly? have we ruled out a faulty sensor / gauge? I only thought of this when you posted the picture of the low operating temperature. That needle should be dead in the middle at operating temp. It would suck to go replacing all this stuff when it was never really overheating at all.

[harrymaneuvers]

Let me know if you need a scanner... I can doughnate some $$$ and get you a bluetooth OBD2 reader as long as you have an android phone.

[CORVAIRWILD]

I dunno if I'll ever get used to this electronic crap...

And I'm not able to post pix... I re-sized to small, but overcapacity message, or something. do I have to pay dues?

[CORVAIRWILD]

I re-sized to 66KB, and this is the mssg...>>>Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.<<<

[harrymaneuvers]

@ Corvairwild... go sign up for a photobucket account... its free. It will be the best thing you did in a while.

Once you have uploaded the photos you want to photobucket... then you can just embed them in a post. You just right click the image (from the hosted site like photobucket) and copy "image URL"


Then when you are posting on forums (like SL-i.net) you open up the full editor (not just a quick reply) and click the "Img" button next to the text options.


This will give you a command in which to paste the image url from photobucket. I am going to put it in quotes so you can see what it looks like:

"THIS%20IS%20WHERE%20YOU%20PASTE%20THE%20IMAGE%20URL"


You can attach photos from anywhere on the internet like this... go to google images and search for something... then once you find the picture on a website... right click, copy the image url and paste it into the forum message like I stated above... BOOM DONE and you didnt even have to upload anything to photobucket.

For the most part, doing it this way, you can put much larger photos in posts because the Forum isnt actually hosting the picture (and taking up space).

[CORVAIRWILD]

I have a PB account, and the last time I used it, several yrs ago, it said I was at my limit, of some sort, and I havn't looked since. But I agree, I need it for CL ads, etc... We're planning a weekend trip to drop off my California Suburban (diesel 4x4) to a body shop 300 miles away, and was going to pk up my 1998 OB 250 the other way, and tow it back, and it 's gonna snow in Connecticut, and we're rite now planning a trip to Florida next month and stopping at the Biltmore Estate on the way home, using up airline credits I've accumulated from trips gone bad/cancelled. and I have to get my passport, and finish welding up the Subby tow bar adapter... MY usual busy day!

[Okin DaVanh]

So two things Im thinking...

Have you tried the same highway test with the AC on? Doesnt have to be cold air but like your heat turned to just defrost. This should cause your fans to be running and you would know if it was a fan issue.

Secondly? have we ruled out a faulty sensor / gauge? I only thought of this when you posted the picture of the low operating temperature. That needle should be dead in the middle at operating temp. It would suck to go replacing all this stuff when it was never really overheating at all.
1st- Yes I did, and it will NOT overheat.
2nd-That gauge does rise to mid and even to the shaded mark next to the "H" level.
I got a video of some of it's shenanigans. I'll post them when I get settled in. Shows the elevating of the needle and both fans etc...

[Okin DaVanh]

Didn't upload the video yet, but I did manage to get a Solus hooked up to it. At 203 degrees, both fans would kick on.

As of Friday, it now has:

New radiator
New Thermostat
New Coolant Temp. sensor
New Temp. Sending sensor
Waterpump replaced
Burped.

[02_Legacy]

As of Friday, it now has:

New radiator
New Thermostat
New Coolant Temp. sensor
New Temp. Sending sensor
Waterpump replaced
Burped.

As long as you did a good job getting all the air out and you are sure there are no leaks, that pretty much leaves one thing... I think we all know what it is. :-(

[mshriver]

Didn't upload the video yet, but I did manage to get a Solus hooked up to it. At 203 degrees, both fans would kick on.

As of Friday, it now has:

New radiator
New Thermostat
New Coolant Temp. sensor
New Temp. Sending sensor
Waterpump replaced
Burped.

So is it still overheating?

[CORVAIRWILD]

Pressure tester???

[Okin DaVanh]

So is it still overheating?
If i drive with the defrost on, I'm good for city driving. If I don't, It will go from where it is to the middle and if I throw the defrost on, it will return to the mark it runs at which is the 1/4 mark. If I take it on the freeway/highway, after 15 mins or so, when I exit, it will also start to creep up and then begin to back flow into the overflow, at which time I pull over and let it cool down then fill it following something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ-6EUdK6ac


pop the cap/fill it/ squeeze the top hose to burp/top off/ barely twist cap back on/ fire up car/remove cap again/ top off radiator while running (heat off at 1st, but in heat position) throttle car up to 2500-3000 rpm and watch bubbles flow up/ release throttle and turn heat on full blast/ then fill/burp hose again/ repeat til I have a flow of antifreeze going inside the radiator/ Cap and drive. The failsafe or both fans don't come on until they reach 203 degrees, parked and jacked up in the front after I did this to it too.


Pressure tester???
That's next on the agenda. Even tho I did a sniffer test on it, I might as well try.

[subleg69]

i had a simular problem after changing the thermostat, rad, rad cap, water pump, timming tensioner, nothing worked. had the head gasket changed 15k ago. tearing the motor out pretty sure its a cracked head. a shop ran all the tests they could and nothing worked or came back with any answers.

[mshriver]

So is it still overheating?
If i drive with the defrost on, I'm good for city driving. If I don't, It will go from where it is to the middle and if I throw the defrost on, it will return to the mark it runs at which is the 1/4 mark.

Every Subaru I have ever owned run in the middle of the temp guage. Its never stopped at the 1/4 mark. So not sure if its a good thing your car is running cooler or a weird thing.



If I take it on the freeway/highway, after 15 mins or so, when I exit, it will also start to creep up and then begin to back flow into the overflow,

This sounds eerily like a HG issue