Need help identifying noise? REAR DIFF INFO NEEDED *video*

[d1giPhux]

Is it possible to break a bearing during a rotor change?

I replaced my rear rotors + parking brakes + spring kit and all that good stuff. However, after pulling a stuck rear rotor off, it seems like something to do with the bearing may have broken.

The wheel now bends in and out and wobbles around like the wheel bearing was damaged. Not sure how this could have happened. Does anyone know what I should check? Not too pleased about this, and not really sure how this could have happened. My friend that was helping me with this DID hit the center axle nut a couple of times while trying to get the rotor off. I told him not to do this, however, I'm not sure this caused the problem.

Basically looking for some opinions on what I may have broken or done.

Thanks.
-------------------------------------
Edit: Looks like it could have just been the axle nut being loose. Not sure HOW this came loose, as I didn't touch it, however, I have included some videos of before / after the new axle nut being installed. Doesn't seem to be shaking around much anymore. Hope this is all my problem was.

Wheel Shaking (showing signs of what I thought was a bad bearing:

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels ... shake1.avi (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels/wheel_shake/wheel_shake1.avi)

After replacing the Axle Nut (no more shaking / not much shaking):

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels ... shake2.avi (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels/wheel_shake/wheel_shake2.avi)

[Wiscon_Mark]

Not sure why he was hitting that nut, as it has not much to do with the rotor...

But I think that's really all that could've done it. I'd find it hard to believe you would've ruined it with routine brake maintenance.

Topic moved to correct forum.

[Huffer]

Are you sure the hub is moving when the wheel moves around? Could just be that the lugnuts were not installed all the way, or have become cross threaded? Was the rotor seated flat on the hub and the caliper tightened down?

[d1giPhux]

Mark: yeah, not really sure HOW this turned into such a shitty situation. I took something easy and screwed it up.. awesome huh? Its possible the bearing was just going bad by itself and somehow this screwed it up beyond belief. At first to remove the rotor I was just using 2 bolts as thats how I've done it in the past. However, the parking brake was stuck on that side.. so not sure if maybe thats what caused the issue? I'm really not sure WHAT would have caused this to happen. Is it possible at all that the axle itself may have came undone? Hope not. Something is definitely screwed up however and the wheel is wobbling around like I've never seen before.

Huffer: The hub IS moving around when the wheel is moving around. Its quite scary. I will take a video of it. I cant believe how screwed up its become. I really feel like an idiot. The lug nuts were installed all the way, and I'm not sure how they could have backed themselves out. The rotor WAS seated flat, and I did tighten the caliper down and everything else down properly.

Basically I'm thinking this is either an issue with the axle coming loose.. somehow? Not sure if thats even possible. Or the bearing itself is mangled again and broken. I'm going to jack it up and take a video of it so everyone can see what is happening.

[Huffer]

Hold on, was the rotor rusted to the hub?

My suggestion is to disassemble everything and start from the beginning. At least that way you can try turning the hub in/out without the wheel attached.

[d1giPhux]

No, the rotor wasn't rusted to the hub. It came off the hub semi easily once the parking brake hardware was mangled. I didn't care though because I had new hardware and everything which I installed afterwards.

The rotor was hard to pull off initially because the parking brake was not released properly and caught the rotor. I then tried to press it off the hub using the 2 screw method. This did not work. Eventually used a puller, but my idiot friend was banging on the middle of the hub as well. Not sure if this is what caused my issues or not, however, there is definitely some type of issue now.

I think your right, I'm gonna have to take everything apart and try to get to the hub to take a look at it. Something weird is going on here. Its almost like the axle is the issue or something. Not sure how to check really without taking it all apart again :(

[Huffer]

^^ you can't.
If your friend was banging on the axle nut, the shock from that could have sent vibrations through the hub/CV - those are rotation parts and not designed for end-on impacts. That could be part of the issue.

[d1giPhux]

Yeah, so I'm not sure what would have happened. Either the axle is popped outta place (which I'm not sure how to check), or the bearing is shot. Also going to check the axle nut as well, since I've seen other reports of subarus with the same issue resulting from the axle nut coming loose. I doubt this is the case.

[d1giPhux]

Okay car is back up in the air. Taking a look at the axle nut.. i notice its loose? Wtf? Do they just come loose like this? Crazy.

Should I just tighten it back up.. or is that going to screw anything up?? Gotta go find the right size socket for this too..32mm is it?

[d1giPhux]

Tightened it back up.. wheel doesnt seem to be wobbling too much any more. I'm guessing it still did some damage to the bearing riding around loose like that. Hmm. We'll, I guess I'm glad the last place that touched it was the subaru place when doing the bearing. Seems like some shoddy work. Looks like they reused the axle nut too.

I just bought a new one.. gonna put it on and replace the beat one. Torque it to 150ft lbs

[d1giPhux]

Added videos to original post as well as here.

Hope that this is all that was causing my issue. Hope I didn't give myself any bearing damage by rolling around with a loose axle bolt. Those idiots at the stealership are the last ones who put the bolt in. They either didn't tighten it down enough, or the axle nut itself was re-used. Not sure how else it would come loose. :(

Wheel Shaking (showing signs of what I thought was a bad bearing:

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels ... shake1.avi (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels/wheel_shake/wheel_shake1.avi)

After replacing the Axle Nut (no more shaking / not much shaking):

http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels ... shake2.avi (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/wheels/wheel_shake/wheel_shake2.avi)

[Baddog]

So did you try and tighten the old one up? Still did the same thing?

Or did you not try and said screw it and changed to a new one?

[d1giPhux]

I bought a new axle nut and tightened it down. Seems like its working for now and the wheel isnt wobbling around anymore.

I'm just wondering if I did any damage to the bearing by driving with the loose axle nut. Seems to be fine now..

[Huffer]

Your FRIEND was banging on the axle nut. You said so yourself. Don't blame the shop.

[d1giPhux]

Okay.. so still need some help on this.

When installing the new axle nut, what is the proper procedure for doing so? Wheel off, brake on.. and tighten?

Still trying to figure if anything else could have gone wrong with the axle nut being loose like that. Not sure if I could have screwed up the CV axle or anything else.

[Huffer]

Jack car up
Remove wheel + center cap.
Reinstall wheel & three lugs
Lower car
Brake on
Break wheel nut free
Loosen lugs
Jack up car
Remove wheel
Remove axle nut
Installation is reverse, with the correct torque. Remember to use a punch and notch the axle nut to prevent it from spinning loose.

[d1giPhux]

Yeah i did this before. Still getting some REALLY weird sounds. Gonna try and record them if possibly. One is a scraping/screetching sound while driving. However, does NOT do this in reverse or when clutch is pushed in.. which is a bit scary.

Also hear a lower droning type noise.

This sucks.. i think I got something needing to be replaced. I'm guessing a bearing, and hopefully NOT something to do with trans. Everything seems to shift and feel like its driving okay.. just makes a CRAP ton of noise.

EDIT:

Here are some videos of the noise:

http://tinyurl.com/7xflu63

http://tinyurl.com/7pev8q3

The noise ONLY seems to occur when accelerating. Its like a metallic screetching type sound upon any type of acceleration. Goes away when you stop pressing on the gas.

[Wiscon_Mark]

If it's drive related, it's not a bearing.

Probably something in the axle assembly was broken.

[d1giPhux]

Axle assembly? What do you think could have broken? Weird thing is.. the car drives perfectly smooth, just has that weird scraping noise. :smt022

[d1giPhux]

I checked the trans fluid while cold.. its at the FULL mark. So, shouldn't be anything to do with that. Gonna check heat shields next I guess.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Axle assembly? What do you think could have broken?

Could be the CV joint (easy enough to inspect) or it could be that some of the splines were broken. You won't know until you look at them though. What you're describing sounds like what happened to me just before I had a front axle snap though. And if it's drive related, it isn't bearings, brakes, hub assembly, suspension, etc.

The only other thing it might be would be your rear diff (if you're sure it's coming from back there) and that's less likely.

[d1giPhux]

The only other thing it might be would be your rear diff (if you're sure it's coming from back there) and that's less likely.

WE HAVE A WINNER! :smt013

Yup.. took it to the shop today. Had a couple of things wrong. Apparently one side E-brake cable was routed a bit off. :smt021

AND, my rear diff is toast.

They want $700 for parts and labor. Ugh. Not cool at all, but guess I don't have much of a choice. :smt022 :smt022

Its been a rough month. :neutral:

I guess i could source a rear diff online, and pay the $450 labor charge or whatever.. but dunno if finding a low mileage rear diff for a M/T is even possible. They said theirs was 1/2 available in the country with low mileage (dont really believe that).


So.. think i should do it?? :smt011 Anything else I COULD do while they are pulling this crap off? If i even decide to have them do it?

[Wiscon_Mark]

I guess i could source a rear diff online, and pay the $450 labor charge or whatever.. but dunno if finding a low mileage rear diff for a M/T is even possible. They said theirs was 1/2 available in the country with low mileage (dont really believe that).

Don't worry about mileage on the diff - they generally don't break. You should be able to get one fairly cheap on the boards, just make sure to match the Final Drive to your transmission.

While you're in there, doing this mod wouldn't be a bad idea:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22893 (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22893)

I'd wait for more experienced members to chime in, but I didn't think a rear diff job was terribly difficult - you could probably save yourself a lot of dime to do it yourself.

Last of all - check your CV joints/axles & hubs and make sure everything is turning healthily. If they have extra undue resistance, that could've been the cause of your differential's demise.

[d1giPhux]

Finaly drive for a 1999 Subary Legacy GT is 4.11 right? Can i use a diff from a newer vehicle?

At this point in time, I'm so fed up with working on the car in my driveway.. I may just have them do it. Totally sucks, but I've been working on this car for weeks! I dunno what to do. I could probably do the diff job myself, but now the car is about 30 miles away already. Damn subaru.. it hates me~ :smt012

[d1giPhux]

Anyone know where I could source a LOW mileage rear diff for a Manual Trans? They are obv diff then auto trans right?

Also, its 4.44 right?

[Wiscon_Mark]

I don't think there's any difference with the diffs aside from FD ratio.

[d1giPhux]

The FD of mine should be 4.44 right? Not 4.11?

Also, yeah, I only asked about the diff between auto and M/T because on all the ebay listings, I see they say there IS a difference. I'm a bit unsure.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'm going to wait to for someone more knowledgeable to chime in, but I think your GT is going to be a 4.11 FD.

edit: according to wikipedia it is 4.11, but there's a lot of information missing there.

I believe only the Outbacks and Foresters were 4.44 because of the oversized tires.

[d1giPhux]

Hmm, yeah you could be correct about the 4.11. Thats what I've heard before, but was thinking 4.44 because of what I saw on ebay.

Anyone know for sure? I'm thinking its 4.11.. but gonna wait for someone to confirm. Its a 1999 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT M/T.

[phi11]

I can't find my transmission final drive list,
but off the top of my head, the M/T GT is 4.11
you can pull the transmission code off of the bell mouth, and double check.
(and I think it's on the vin plate also?)

[d1giPhux]

Do you know if there is a difference between M/T and A/T rear diffs? I will check the VIN plate and see if I can find out what the final drive is. Thanks for the tip! :smt023

[phi11]

http://www.gearhack.com/myink/ViewPage. ... on%20Chart (http://www.gearhack.com/myink/ViewPage.php?file=docs/Subaru%20Transmission%20Chart)

yeah, the A/T and M/T should be different
(the A/T is 4.44 iirc)

[d1giPhux]

Anyone know what whiteline bushings I would need to get in order to do that mod Mark was talking about?

[Wiscon_Mark]

I don't know that whiteline makes anything for that bracket. All I'm aware of is the info that is listed in that DIY.

[fullCircling]

check the two bolts holding up your drive shaft! a little further down towards the rear of the car from where the shifter is, theres two 14mm bolts holding the whole thing up. if they become loose, or in my case missing altogether, it will hit the exhaust shield and sound like shit. it didnt drive much different when both bolts were completely gone, it just sounded horrible. one of the two rubber bushings was missing from mine also, they are on the driveshaft mounting bracket, and the bolts go into them. it will be obvious if any are missing.

[fullCircling]

its 4.11 for a manual, and 4.44 for an automatic on a BD legacy, 100%

[Wiscon_Mark]

its 4.11 for a manual, and 4.44 for an automatic on a BD legacy, 100%

No, not 100%. The 2.2L engines were paired with a 3.9 FD on the 5 speeds. And I'm not even 100% on that beyond the 95MY.

[fullCircling]

oh sorry, i should have narrowed that down to the 2.5 GTs

[d1giPhux]

It ended up being a completely eaten up rear diff anyways. Chunks of metal coming out of it and such. :smt013

[fullCircling]

wow! any idea what caused it?

[d1giPhux]

No clue. The oil was like water, which is odd because I changed it like.. less than 40k miles ago. Easily. Not sure what caused it to fail. Hoping that it didn't cause any other damage anywhere else in drive line. Hearing weird noises still upon deceleration.. but these sound like they are coming from the trans, or somewhere else in drive line. However, car is now working.. so I'm happy.