Looking to Replace my Classic....

[LunchBox04V]

Hello everyone. It's been a long time since I posted. Lol so many little projects have come up. However, I finally have something interesting, that I need help with. So I'll get to the point.....
I currently have a '99 Wagon, that I have put almost 100,000 miles on the clock, bringing her close to 200,000 miles. It's treated me well, and still is. Unfortunately, time is catching up... The rust is starting to become aggressive, and it's time again to put money in to maintenance items such as timing belts, sensors, etc. I currently have the opportunity to step up a little....
I have found a 2006 Legacy GT (deep red with tan leather, every option except Nav) with higher mileage (167,000), but in 120% mint condition. The interior is perfect, and so is the exterior. Not a dent to be seen. It is a manual. It has been stored for 4 months after the original owner blew up the motor (unsure what he did, but I know it needs a motor). It is 100% unmodified. I can easily get a new long block (there is one at the shop just waiting...).
Now, the the meat and potatoes. Lol
1.) Does this sound like a good option? I have never driven a re-engined car before. I imagine, aside from other life limited parts, the cars lifespan would be increased significantly. (I know this is a subjective question)
2.) Turbo questions.... (I have never owned a turbo car before) How do I check for turbine damage? What should I look for? Can the housing be used, and upgrade the internals?
3.) Would it be worth it to upgrade the long block internals? It's already out, it would be easy to upgrade to STi forged. (I have a feeling the answer here is going to be "what are your plans with the car." plans are, fun daily driver, not an autocross car).
Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm still trying to get a firm price, but I believe somewhere in the order of $4000-$5000 would be the sellers goal. Thank you again for any data.

[Huffer]

1. No issues. Engines are just like any other part. They wear out. They just happen to be the whole point of the car.
2. Check the turbo shaft for play - you can spin it by hand while the car is off, there should be very little movement outside of the normal spinning. It should be smooth, not choppy. If you were going to upgrade the turbo, you would need to upgrade the exhaust, air intake possibly and definitely look at a retune. For the larger turbos you have to go with higher flowing injectors and possibly different spark plugs.

3. Don't bother with upgrading the internals. If you're just daily driving it, you'll enjoy it with stock internals, and a good tune.

Here's my advice - you have never owned a turbo car before, so just install a factory fresh engine, drive it gently, get it tuned, and then enjoy it some more. When you're more familiar with the general maintenance of, and the nuances of it, then you can go nuts with the mods. A turbo car will punish you if you are not familiar with driving one.

[LunchBox04V]

Ok. That was my thought. Just bring it up to factory. Maybe a better intake, and better flowing exhaust, and learn the car. I have a feeling if driven properly, this car could easily do another 125k miles. Oh, and it's a 2005. Haha same difference I hope.

[Huffer]

Ok. That was my thought. Just bring it up to factory. Maybe a better intake, and better flowing exhaust, and learn the car. I have a feeling if driven properly, this car could easily do another 125k miles. Oh, and it's a 2005. Haha same difference I hope.

Easily. The main difference between a turbo and non-turbo is the added stress on cramming air into the cylinders. I have a friend of mine who bought an 05 when they came out. Within 4 weeks we violated the factory warranty with a downpipe, uppipe and stock catback exhaust. He got an ECUTek tune (reflash) on it and the responsiveness improved dramatically.

[Dead91silvia]

The big thing you need to find out is if the turbo has been replaced. 90% of the time, 05-up Legacy turbos, are junk. They are a regular stock idem at Subaru. Big thing is shaft play... You can also do an oil filter inspection (cut apart and look for shavings, I do this for all my customers).

A turbo, at my shop price, is $950.00... So make sure the turbo is good and that the turbo line filters have also been changed, Most of the time thats why the turbos go bad.

Other then that, they are great cars.

[LunchBox04V]

Silly question.... Again, new to turbochargers.... Are there any upgrades that can be done to the stock turbo to increase response time? Any turbo upgrades around the same price point as a new factory unit? I don't even know what turbo it has. Lol in the next week or two ill get a chance to inspect this machine in depth. I will do some more research and see what I can find. Thanks again for the help.

[Huffer]

The easiest way to increase spool up time is to improve your exhaust & air intake, and get a tune. The turbo itself isn't worth the effort unless you plan on upgrading the HP output or spending big money on a lighter-weight version. It is much cheaper and easier to do the exhaust and tune. Plus, the response is pretty good to begin with. Have you driven one?

[Wiscon_Mark]

You should read the link in this thread if you haven't already:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23752 (http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23752)

[LunchBox04V]

No I haven't read that yet. And I'll be honest.... This all start 3 days ago... There was a '94 Legacy Turbo Wagon that I was asked to look at. That was my first turbo experience. It was old, kinda tired, but that turbo snapped to it pretty hard at 2500 rpm. (I've been driving a 140hp 2.2 for too long when a 170hp turbo gets me going. Haha) but to answer the question, no, I have never driven one of the new turbo Legacys.

[SilentRacer]

There is a difference with the 05gts over the 06s. There is a banjo bolt filter in the oil line that if clogged, will starve the turbo of oil and eventually blow it. People who replace the turbo and don't check the filter, blow their new turbo shortly after. 05s were prone to this issue, REMOVE this filter. Issue number two, the stock intercooler on these cars is trash and is prone to leaking at around 70k. Issue number 3, the stock uppipe has a pre-cat that can deteriorate and sent chunks of itself downstream. Change the uppipe while the engine is out of the car.

[LunchBox04V]

That's great. I'm going to try and get a firm price this weekend and go from there. The only good news is that the car is going no where fast. Another question regarding the suspension this time. How many suspension parts does the '05 GT share with the '05 WRX? (If any). Thanks again.

[Wiscon_Mark]

The front, but not the rear, will swap over - if you have a complete assembly. The WRX has tapered springs, so you'll need the WRX tophats. The rear is a multilink suspension design, so it's completely different.

You'll probably have to stick with BP/BL stuff.

[SilentRacer]

no real point in a wrx suspension, the lgt has a huge aftermarket for suspension if u want to swap.

[LunchBox04V]

Hey! Been a little bit, but there is finally progress on this project. The new engine is going in soon, (mid week) and financing has been acquired. lol The engine was a straight swap (rebuilt 60k block). I was looking into a few quick and easy upgrades while the car is up on the lift and disassembled. I was going to do new springs and struts (TEIN) seeing as the originals are still on it. My big question was the engine "mods." They are few, and I'm still pretty new to the Turbo game.
I was going to replace the up-pipe, and possibly the down pipe, along with getting a custom bent cat-back. Any tips here? This will gain be a daily driver, just with a little more spunk. I believe the factory exhaust diameter is 2.5". Is there a great need to swap to a 3"? Also, still looking into the options, but some sort of intake as well. Thanks again for the help.

As a side note, and I'll post in the for sale section once I get closer, but my '99 BK wagon MT will have to be sold once the new car is purchased....

[Huffer]

Whoo hoo!

[Dead91silvia]

If the motor is still out, I highly recommend doing a 2007 solid flywheel. Oh wait, it is a stick right? If it is a stick, you will absolutely hate the 05 floating flywheel. I upgraded my customers 05 to 07 spec and the car is so much more user friendly and so much more fun to drive.

And a Stage 1 Excedy clutch to go with the flywheel.

Look forward to seeing it done!

[LunchBox04V]

Yeah, I'm a little nervous to have a car payment again. Lol this will be my first turbo car, and I do NOT want to do the noob crap. I'm keeping it simple. Up pipe, downpipe, new mufflers (keepin the stock exhaust downpipe to new mufflers. Also.... I was thinking about the Grimmspeed Air/Oil seperator. Beyond that, new struts (originals still on it....) and she's done. Oh, and I have to somehow figure a way to get my Clarion head unit in....
I'll post pictures of the new BL6, and post a for sale for the BK in about a week. (lol any bites at the BK or pass it alone? I really want to see her go to a loving home) The GT looks very odd with the engine out, the nose is about 2" higher than normal.

[jjay03]

My problem with buying a car with a bad engine is once you get the engine replaced your just praying the rest of the drivetrain is not jacked up also. Hopefully the trans is in good shape.

[LunchBox04V]

I think on that point I'm going to be ok. The car had one owner, and it was mainly used for long distance driving. The engine went because he didn't change the oil. The transmission felt solid before we removed the engine, without too much play. It will be getting a flush for sure. Any "high mileage" oils or additives I should try for the transmission? Or just stick with OE.

[LunchBox04V]

Quick turbo exhaust question... Did a little searching and found that the original exhaust on the GT is 2.5" from the downpipe to the resonator. At the resonator it reduces to 2" back to the Y pipe, where it becomes 1.5" to each muffler. I was looking to replace the original with 2.5" from the downpipe to a 2.25" resonator, and then back to 2.5" the rest of the way (Y pipe to mufflers). Will the 2.25" resonator overly restrict the flow? I'll be honest, the Vibrant Ultra Quiet resonator was an extra I ordered, and never used. I think it will flow ok, and it will flow much better than stock. Any thoughts? Again, this is only a daily driver (some spirited sprints), not a 450HP monster.

[SilentRacer]

I had originally replaced the downpipe only and had to use a 3inch to 2.5inch adapter to fit the rest of the stock pipe. If you replace pipes of different diameters you will have to use them to avoid exhaust leaks. Ideally, you want to have a full 3 inch exhaust the whole way and reducing the diameter will just make it quieter, no other benefit.

Reducers look like this
http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/adapter.jpg

[kimokalihi]

Just make sure you don't forget to replace the up pipe with a catless one and remove the filter in the turbo oil feed line. The more you free up your exhaust the better your turbo will perform and the bigger your grin will be. If it was my car I would go from 3" to 2.5 or any other size. Just get a 3" downpipe and have an exhaust shop custom bend whatever else 3" pipe you need to put it all together to your mufflers. I would recommend retaining the muffler flange so the muffler can be removed without taking the whole exhaust off behind the downpipe. Or so you can remove the midpipe or downpipe or both and leave your muffler on the car. I forgot to ask them to do his and now I have a solid exhaust from the downpipe back and its a bit annoying. The other day I polished my muffler and it was a pain in he ass because I couldn't just remove the muffler alone.

I would buy a nice quality 3" catted downpipe and have it cermamic coated (optional but makes a huge difference in temp) and get an sti or wrx non catted oem up pipe. Nice and cheap and just as good as you need. Then get a retune and call it done.

[LunchBox04V]

^ That is the current plan. I think I'm going to have an Invidia catless up pipe, and 3" the rest of the way. Talked to the local muffler shop and they quoted almost the same price if it was 2.5 or 3 mandrel bend. I'll see if I can't get a flange in there before the mufflers. It's been a long road this month (just moved... And the GT just got done with the engine swap too...) but I think I'll sign for it this coming Monday. I will get a new members ride set up after that. Lol

[kimokalihi]

Unless you can get an aftermarket up pipe for a very good price, I recommend an OEM up pipe. You won't gain any performance from an up pipe and actually lose velocity of your exhaust gases if you use a wider diameter pipe and the OEM catless STI/WRX/EJ22T up pipe is dirt cheap and performs just as well or better.

[SilentRacer]

The OEM up pipe on this car has a pre-cat that likes to disintegrate. No point in OEM. Aftermarket pipes are not expensive.

[LunchBox04V]

^ That was my main concern. I know flow is important, but so is velocity. There is no way the original OEM cat. up pipe is going back on. Looking at either gutting (better flow, but lots of turbulance) or the OEM catless up pipe (has a few ridges that disrupt flow and velocity) I went with a factory diameter aftermarket. Smooth flow (no ridges) and the stock diameter (same velocity) should keep it running smooth, efficient, and strong. I'm not looking to make a 450hp rally car, just increase the fun factor. And with added efficiency, comes better MPG (if I keep my foot out of it... My friends do say I drive like a granny).

[kimokalihi]

Aftermarket pipes I've seen are pretty expensive considering its nothing more than a pipe with flanges welded to the ends. I was not suggesting using an oem up pipe that has a cat, I was suggesting an oem catless up pipe as they can be had for next to nothing and will be more than adequate

[LunchBox04V]

Well quick update... It has been started and run for about 30 minutes now. Small drip around the cam seal, so we are goin to take it down and fix that. Also noticed a leaking/torn CV boot. So we are going to do that as well. Once that's is complete, it will have a week of test driving around the shop (should something die). Then, it's on the road to Detroit. Lol