Tranny Swap

[cannedbil]

How much money am i lookin at if i want to swap my auto tranny for a tougher manual one?

[Wiscon_Mark]

honestly, there isn't much difference between the 4EAT and the 5MT strengthwise.

However, the STi 6MT is much stronger, but also uber expensive (6-10k if you get all the differentials and axles, etc).

A swap from 4EAT to 5MT would run you anywhere from 1-5k (depending on if you did the job yourself or not) in my estimation.

[Huffer]

honestly, there isn't much difference between the 4EAT and the 5MT strengthwise.

Where'd you get that info from Mark?
WRX's are detuned because of the EAT, similarly the early GTB's were also detuned because of them.

[sheepdog]

you can land all the stuff to do it for probably around 1-2k. then the labor is the clincher. unless you are doing a motor swap too, don't bother imo

[Wiscon_Mark]

I was talking Legacy 5MT, not WRX 5MT.

The WRX's are cryo treated to be stronger, so they are a bit better than the 4EAT strengthwise.

[Huffer]

I was talking Legacy 5MT, not WRX 5MT.

The WRX's are cryo treated to be stronger, so they are a bit better than the 4EAT strengthwise.

Which gen?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Which gen Legacy? The non-GT ones, all years. The only real change in the Legacy 5MTs (besides the turbos) was the switch to hydraulic clutch, and the switch to 4.11 FD in 1997. I don't think they did anything to reinforce the transmission's gears. The LGT tranny is probably (speculation here) just a WRX tranny.

I could be wrong, but I've never heard of a change in strength in the N/A line.

[sheepdog]

sorry to break it to you mark, but the wrx 5 speed is just as pathetic as the legacy 5mt. the 04-05 transs are a bit better, but cryo treated they are not.

don't mess with anything other than a jdm 5mt or a 6mt

[Wiscon_Mark]

hmmm, I thought for sure something was done to strengthen them (as said by xcntrk75). Maybe it was the synchros?

[sheepdog]

ahh i typoed, and didnt expand on the 05 trans. xcntrk runs the 05 drivetrain. ra gearset, cryotreated, and dual cone syncro on 1st. 05 ftw

[ooberdoob]

the stock 05 wrx tranny is all of those?!!?!?

[sheepdog]

yep. it still sucks and can be blown up easily, but it is a step up from the 02-03

[shazapple]

Ive always heard the Legacy EAT is stronger than the MT

[Wiscon_Mark]

Ive always heard the Legacy EAT is stronger than the MT

I've never heard any conclusive evidence that there's any sway one way or another. Generally the 5MTs experience more stress because people do AWD launches with them (can't really do that with an auto unless you really want to kill it). That's why the WRX tranny is considered "weak"

It's really not, the stress of a launch where the tires don't chirp to relive stress goes into the transmission, unlike a FWD or RWD car.

[Huffer]

Based on my limited JDM experience in NZ, the BD series Legacies shared very similar traits with the GC series WRX - and some of those guys are still running original gearboxes.

None of them will stand up to repeated drag launches, and most of the AWD drag guys are spending NZ$6k on dog box modifications.

However, I still stand behind my assertion that the JDM cars detuned their auto models to preserve the 4EAT - doing side by side dyno runs with stock cars proves that.

[xcntrk75]

A little late on this discussion;

The general consensus regarding WRX 5MT is in the more recent years they’ve received specific gear and syncro upgrades. The gears were enlarged to the same spec as the RA gear size, however I do not believe are cyrotreated (otherwise they would be RA gears).

I believe it goes something like this:

Late 03’ ~ early 04’: Oversized 1,2,3 gear (RA width)
Late 04’ ~ all 05’: all gear sizes increased (1-5) + new syncro design

I believe that’s correct. There’s a lot of mis-information about this topic and ever person seems to have a different opinion. The Rallispec tranny chart (http://www.rallispec.com/Transmission%20chart.htm) is helpful too…

[blackgtbeauty]

i think a lot of it comes down to how you treat your tranny.

[Oldbravada19]

ok changing gears...no...nothing ok well with that atempted humor out of the way. what is involved exactly with switching tranny cause there is a 97 GT in my town for pretty cheap but its auto and while i could live with an auto...why am i explaining you guys understand. i am moderately knowlegeable about cars. me and my dad do all our own work and he has experiance rebuilding engines and transmissions. neither of us has ever done a auto to manual swap though. pieces are starting to fly into my mind that i will need. please please tell me its not that hard

[strat81]

the parts list i came up with going off a junkyard price list and a new clutch on ebay...

i could probably get the parts for under $400...

i'm considering this myself actually as i hate the 4eat. (i like to choose my own gears)

it can't be THAT hard to do...

[Oldbravada19]

im hoping its not. and i must admit i would feel pretty macho if i converted to a 5spd

[AussieDan]

It's not too tough mechanically, but you'll have assorted electrical issues (ABS for one).

As you're still shopping around I'd advise waiting until you find a good manual, or buying the auto and using the money you'd spend converting to manual now to start a WRX/STi swap fund.

[sheepdog]

Yea. You will have wiring gremlins because of the trans swap, and remember you need a whole clutch pedal assembly, master cylinder, etc, in addition to the manual trans. As was said, buy the auto, and do a full wrx or sti conversion down the line, you can go to a manual then and won't have the wiring issues.

[strat81]

my abs doesn't function currently... i'm not sure whether i'm gonna go through with it though... my eyes are wandering towards a jeep :oops:

[Huffer]

It's not too tough mechanically, but you'll have assorted electrical issues (ABS for one).

xcntrk75 just plugged the AT TCU back in, and the ABS worked fine after that.

[Wiscon_Mark]

It's not too tough mechanically, but you'll have assorted electrical issues (ABS for one).

xcntrk75 just plugged the AT TCU back in, and the ABS worked fine after that.

beat me to it.

Just plug the TCU back in and it's cream. The TCU doesn't actually have to control anything ;)

[rallysam]

If you want a stronger tranny, don't get anything except PPG. A nice PPG synchro'd 5speed will be much stronger than an STI 6 speed or an RA set, and cheaper than a 6 speed while you're at it.

http://www.gearboxtech.com

[Wiscon_Mark]

would that be a brand new tranny, or a rebuild of our Subaru 5 speed?

[rallysam]

would that be a brand new tranny, or a rebuild of our Subaru 5 speed?

PPG makes new gearsets in Australia. I believe they are machined from scratch to their own design (nearly indestructable). But, they need to go in an existing case with existing diffs, though, if that's what your asking. But I dunno if I'd call that a rebuild.

Their US dealer, Andrewtech, could install the new gearset in either the customer's case (if compatible) or in a used WRX case that they have on the shelf, then put the tranny in the car. That's where BAC5.2 works.

Getting PPG and getting them installed is not cheap, but neither is any other option. And the problem is, any other option is hardly an upgrade in strength.

[Wiscon_Mark]

That's exactly what I was wondering, thanks a lot, Sam :smile: