5spd swap need wiring?

[tnrknght]

I know that I would need to rewire the entire car for swapping in a new motor, so Im thinking of swapping in another 2.2l with a 5spd. Im aware that Ill need the 5spd ecu but will the wiring change at all?

[MonstarMotorsports]

you actually dont need a 5 speed ECU, in fact i believe that makes your life harder actually. Because then your trying to put a 5 speed ecu into a automatic wired car.
But the rewiring on a 5 speed swap is extremely simple. I just did it my self, in the last couple weeks, So if you do the swap and get stuck, just PM me, i'll walk ya threw it.

[tnrknght]

My thing is from what Ive read (at least as far as engine swaps go) I have to pull the entire harness from head to toe unless I wanna cut and splice. I dont have that kind of time, if I put in another 2.2 for now and have to stick with an auto trans I will because Im saving the swap for after I have my 3000gt rolling to have the subie off the road for a week or two. The motor/trans I can have done in a day (service manager is a certified subaru mechanic) I just cant risk having setbacks with wiring

[MonstarMotorsports]

Wont get into motor swap wiring, since thats a huge story off subject. But rewiring for a 5 speed is the least time consuming part of a 5 speed swap. it takes longer/is harder to switch the pedals out than to fix the wiring for the 5 speed. You clip a wire, you move a pin over. you ground a wire, you splice to wires together, and you splice one more set of wires together and you can be off and driving. now that above method will bypass the NSS, so you need to have half a brain when starting your car. and you wont have cruise control, but your car will drive right. wiring in a NSS isnt to much harder, but takes a little more time. then you can keep your cruise, and you'll require the clutch pressed in to start the car.

[tnrknght]

Okay so its only a little cutting and splicing? I can live with that. I was worried that the ecu was going to be entirely different and need a new harness >.>

[MonstarMotorsports]

naa not at all. very little cutting and splicing to get the car started, and its super easy, i can send ya pictures on a step by step. Then when you have the time, you can go back and change things and start marking off check engine lights. But in the mean time, you'll atleast have a car up and running to get you around town.

[tnrknght]

I would appreciate the step-by-step

[jjay03]

If you had a complete donor car which was the same just a 5mt what wiring would I need to swap to make it like factory? Would I have to pull the dash?

[harrymaneuvers]

Off the top of my head...

Engine wiring harness (attached to the intake manifold) and bulkhead harness (yes removal of the dash is required).

[jjay03]

Whats different about the engine wiring harness?

[harrymaneuvers]

AT has the inhibitor switch (gear selector) coming off of it where the MT just has two connectors... one for the reverse lights and one for the neutral switch. AT wiring harness also includes connections for the TCU.

MT wiring also lacks the FWD fuse wiring.

I am sure there are a few other small things.

[jjay03]

Ok but that stuff shouldnt be part of the intake wiring harness I wouldnt think would it? Is the abs unit different on the 5mt car also? I heard the tcu in the auto cars also control the abs.

[couchfuzzy]

what??

you dont need to remove the dash for any reason related to a 5MT swap.

[jjay03]

I want everything working like factory including the abs. Not just a band-aid to get the light to go off. Chime in if you know what all needs to be done.

[couchfuzzy]

i followed information in this link (http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap/swap.html) almost verbatim, except i went with a plug and play harness i made for the IGN circuit so I could swap back to AT if I ever needed..

One thing that is different on the '95 as opposed to other years is the at/mt id pin, it's 20 instead of 85 on the ecu pinout

[jjay03]

Couchfuzzy im not sure that is all the same for my car though since it is a first gen.

I decided im just going to mod my auto harness. We really need to make a excellent 5speed swap wiring guide. I might look into doing that after my swap. I havnt found anything in all my searching that tells you what to wire where exactly in a nice detailed write up.

Im not even sure if I need to swap the VSS over from the auto to the manual.

I will message Monstar

[86bratman]

The guidelines on his link still apply, they may not be exactly the same, but covers the bases.

You will use the vss that is on the 5mt so it will report correctly to the dash.

[jjay03]

I need a good wiring diagram for a 98. It really doesnt seem hard im just trying to find a bit more info. If someone could just say hook this wire to this wire that be awesome lol.

I thought about cutting the big connector off my auto trans harness and cutting the connectors off the 97 main harness for the trans and making a harness to plug into the factory connectors.

Im a little confused on where to run the wire for the NSS. This thread talks about it some but not sure why its going through the firewall like he has it.
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.p ... 00680.html (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/1998-legacy-outback-trans-swap-4eat-5mt-200680.html)

Need to know what wires to connect the neutral and reverse switches.
I also want the cruise control to work. ABS I could care less I just dont want the light lit up on the dash.

[harrymaneuvers]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26690&p=320785#p320785 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26690&p=320785#p320785)

[jjay03]

Wow thanks for the link I never seen that one before! Man I cant hardly wait to drive it with a 5MT. Is the wiring the same on the 98 and 99's?

[harrymaneuvers]

Yes but do you have a 2.5 or a 2.2?

[jjay03]

I have a 2.5. Im still trying to figure out a lot of the info in that thread. I understand the first part but once it gets to the cruise and the starter with having to buy the relay I get a bit confused. Not sure why this is such a pain for me to figure out right away. Just trying to piece all the info together.

The more I read the better it gets :)

[harrymaneuvers]

I was in your shoes literally a couple years ago.

Here is what I will suggest and I am absolutely serious.

1. Download the full FSM for your car if you havent already. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20753 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20753)
2. Go to the wiring diagram section... the third or fourth PDF down is the FULL wiring diagram for everything on the car. Print off the pages that I linked in that last thread but for your 2.5L. It will say in the upper left corner which engine it is for and there will be multiple diagrams for each system. One for 2.2L, one for 2.2L CA emmissions and one for 2.5L
Start with one thing at a time. Like the reverse lights. Trace the path of electricity with a pen. Do this for all of them. It will help you visualize what you are actually doing so it doesnt seem so overwhelming. Once you get the concept, it will be easy as hell and you will be super proud of yourself for learning something so foreign.

Go here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25046&start=120 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25046&start=120)

5th page about half way down. He has the ECU wiring instructions for 2.5L with pictures. Past that, you should be able to figure out the other systems like what I linked. The Reverse lights, Starter, Cruise Control and NSS systems are the same between the different engines (even same wire colors) so my instructions (aside from the ECU pin locations) should be exactly what is needed to wire yours up.

[jjay03]

Yeh I just printed out all the pages and things are starting to click. You have been the biggest help so far cant thank you enough. I might have to ask you a few questions from time to time if thats ok.

[harrymaneuvers]

Sounds good. Ask away if needed.

[jjay03]

Everything for the cruise is done under the dash right? Near the pedals.

For the starter it says I need to purchase a relay? Where did you mount the relay?

Where did you run your ground for the neutral switch on the trans?

Trying to finish the picture in my head lol. I want to make it a clean install.

ABS looks easy enough just unplug one of the connectors from the ecu and leave the other plugged in.

[harrymaneuvers]

yes everything is near the pedals... you will have to make sure your manual pedals have the cruise and neutral switches on the clutch pedal.

I actually didnt mount the relay... I just tucked it up behind the radio in the center console to the right of the pedals. As for the ground, I just used any old bolt that I found that I could ground too up by the pedal box. I think it is under the hood release but any good grounded bolt or nut should be just fine.

[jjay03]

Alright thanks. Cruise didnt work in the donor car hopefully that switch is ok.

[jjay03]

I noticed on the ecu directions monstar says to cut pin 80 wire also but doesnt say what to do with it. Im guessing I could just pull the pin out and tape it up.
Ill prob just use a 3m quick splice connector also for connecting 81 to the ground.

Pull the wire for 81 from the donor car too so I dont cut any original wires.

[jjay03]

Does anything have to be done with the AT shift lock system. I didnt see anything about it in your link.

[harrymaneuvers]

You are correct about Mostars instructions.

yes you will splice the two wires together that are for the AT shift lock... you will see these wires when you remove the AT shifter.

[jjay03]

Ok thanks.

For the starter relay I think ill just take the one out of the donor car.

[jjay03]

The other large connector going to the trans just gets left unplugged I guess?
Under the console there was a few sets of wires also which ones do I need to connect. There was a red and black on the left side going to a solenoid and 2 black wires on the right going to some kind of indicator and then 2 going to a bulb that I guess I can just unplug.

[couchfuzzy]

this is the link dump of everything that I used to complete this swap:

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swa ... rical.html (http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap/electrical.html)

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13168&p=203200&hilit=ecu+pinout#p203200 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13168&p=203200&hilit=ecu+pinout#p203200)

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/111 ... -help.html (http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/111-gen-1-1995-1999/37184-5spd-swap-1998-subaru-99-completed-having-one-last-wiring-issue-plz-help.html)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2461780 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2461780)

http://www.legacycentral.org/library/tr ... ronics.htm (http://www.legacycentral.org/library/transmission/electronics.htm)

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t86304- ... -swap.html (http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t86304-diy-auto-manual-swap.html)

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin ... on-107199/ (http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f85/need-help-identifying-electrical-connection-107199/)

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.p ... 58323.html (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/auto-manual-transmission-swap-158323.html)

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.p ... 36840.html (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/05wrx-5-spd-98-legacy-gt-wgn-auto-5spd-conversion-136840.html)

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... ual_scans/ (http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru_manual_scans/)

[couchfuzzy]

i also went with a plug and play method for it all in case i'd ever need to put in a 4EAT again

[jjay03]

Reading in one of those links that subikid posted it looks like its the little black indicator piece on the right side. Do you need to leave the solenoid connected tho on the left side cause it looks like one of those wires runs to it in the diagram.

Reading on the surrealmirage.com link he just unplugged the shift lock controller. Guessing that might cause cruise control issues tho not sure. The surrealmirage link also says he swapped cruise computer but those looks to be the same between manual and auto on second gens.

I seen for abs to work you said to keep the white connector plugged into the tcu also. Im not sure mine has a white connector. Do you know if it is B54, B55, or B56? Bottom post here says to unplug the center connector.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1329308 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329308)

[jjay03]

I got into the wiring a little tonight after work.
First I pulled out the shifter from my 98 and was able to see the connector the wires on the shifter traced to.

Then I got the starter relay and clutch switch connectors out of the donor car. I was able to keep the wire connected that goes from the relay to the clutch switch also after cutting away some tape from the main harness. The relay is a yellow tan color ill get a picture of it later.

Also since no one seems for sure im going to try and just keep the shift lock controller unplugged and see if that works ok. Will help with the clutter under the dash.

[couchfuzzy]

pull the wiring diagram bro, in the '95 at least, the shift lock box was integrated into the fuel pump circuit...i'll have to check under the dash tomorrow to see about the connector to the TCU for cruise and ABS.. i dont remember off the top of my head

[jjay03]

Not trying to be smart but if i could figure everything out from those diagrams I wouldnt be asking here. Thanks for checking.

[jjay03]

This is what the starter relay looks like on the 97.
http://cdn2.autopartsnetwork.com/images/catalog/brand/standard-motor-products/full/SI_RY860_Front.jpg

[harrymaneuvers]

Sorry for the late reply.

The two wires going to the shift lock module connector should be cut. Then crimp on a male quick disconnect to one wire and a female quick disconnect to the other wire. Plug the two disconnects together.

This basically tells your shift lock to stay in unlock permanently.

The TCU which is up above the pedals should only have two connectors on it not three.

Here is my whole build. You will notice an index of all important topics about halfway down the first page.

Here are some notable sections you should read through pertaining to the MT swap:

viewtopic.php?p=319838#p319838 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=319838#p319838)
viewtopic.php?p=321124#p321124 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=321124#p321124)
viewtopic.php?p=322581#p322581 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=322581#p322581)
viewtopic.php?p=323367#p323367 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=323367#p323367)
viewtopic.php?p=334081#p334081 (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=334081#p334081)

I dont have notifications set up to tell me when someone posts here so if you have questions, it might be quicker to msg me on facebook. PM me your name and I will friend you. :)

[jjay03]

K thanks I sent you a PM.

[jjay03]

Are you suppose to just cut pin 82 and wire into it or just splice into it?

[couchfuzzy]

The pin slot is blank, you'll have to add a pin and then ground it... ECU reads 5v for AT and 0v for MT

[jjay03]

You mean 81 i alrdy got that one. Im talking about 82 for the neutral.

[jjay03]

Awesome my 98 is missing a bolt hole for the pedal box also.

[harrymaneuvers]

If you are really concerned about it, just drill and tap a hole for it OR get a pedal box from the same year and engine of your car but in MT.

If your car doesnt have the bolt hole for it then I would assume that the correct pedal box doesnt have a mounting point there.

[jjay03]

Different pedal box but I had to cut off the same parts this picture shows. Pedals are installed but that was hell lol.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2014/01/gdpedalsaftermod-1.jpg

[harrymaneuvers]

Squeezing the pedals in is the hardest part.

[jjay03]

I got the starter relay wired up and the cruise wired up.

For the neutral should I cut pin 82 so the wire from the trans goes to it only?

[couchfuzzy]

Awesome my 98 is missing a bolt hole for the pedal box also.


ah man i know how frustrating that is, i had to drill 3 holes into the firewall for the master cylinder with no reference point at all...

i ended up drawing up a template in AutoCAD and printing it out, lol

[jjay03]

Well I think all the wiring is done I just need to connect the wires by the shifter for the shift lock. I picked up some of the splice heat shrink connectors with the solder in them and those thing are awesome! I might add some loom later on its just electrical taped right now.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2014/02/IMG_0517-1.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/spdfrk1990/media/Legacy/IMG_0517.jpg.html)

[grayguy]

Gonna do a full write up?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[jjay03]

Yeh either that or just add in some missing parts to another write up. Some good info out there but definitely a lot of gray areas. Getting everything nice and fitted under the driver side dash is the biggest pita by far. I barely had enough room to tuck the TCU under the lower knee panel. With the 5mt pedals the tcu would not fit in its original location.
Crossing my fingers it fires up tonight.

[jjay03]

Well got it all back together and started it up and its missing. I decided to take it down the road and it ran great! Came back and it started missing again. It will run fine for a few minutes then it will start missing.

The reverse lights do not work either I dont get it. I followed the diagrams I dont see how I could of mixed it up but thinking maybe the reverse and neutral connections are mixed up? Why would that cause it to miss tho?

The code I got was p1507.

[couchfuzzy]

hmm...this may help:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1196685 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1196685)

[jjay03]

Yeh why i think maybe my wires got reversed somehow since my backup lights dont work either.

[jjay03]

I got ready early for work this morning and went out to check the connections. The wiring was correct so I unhooked the connectors and put some dielectric grease in them and reconnected them. The reverse lights worked now so that was good and when I started it it did not miss.
It idles at about 1500 rpm though but it possibly could be the throttle cable being too tight. The cel is still on also so I need to pull the code and see if it is the same. I brought the cable to work to I might check at lunch.

Thinking about maybe wiring in some aftermarket connectors and ditching the stock ones now.

[jjay03]

The P1507 came back I need to rewire that I guess with new connectors and I might get a new neutral switch.

[grayguy]

get all your problems worked out?

[jjay03]

Yes I did. I replaced the neutral switch.

[grayguy]

I'm doing a 5mt swap soon, and I'm really debating a full wiring harness swap. I really don't want to do that tho, I'll have to read up more. I swapped my old roommate impreza it was only like 8 wires I had to touch, I'm not sure why the legacy looks so much more complicated

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[jjay03]

Swapping the whole harness would be a lot more work. Modding the auto harness isnt bad and the abs and cruise still works

[grayguy]

Ok, I don't care about abs, subaru abs is garbage, but cruise is a must. I'll be reading over this thread quite a bit when I get some spare time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[jjay03]

My abs seems to work better since I did the swap. Odd but its really not bad now.

[grayguy]

If you are bored, a full day write up would be OK with me haha

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[jjay03]

If you are bored, a full day write up would be OK with me haha

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

I might be able to do that sometime but if you ever have any questions just let me know. I should be able to clear everything up as long as you have a 96-99.

[grayguy]

Man, I hate wiring. I have everything out of my donor car, but I'm still Dreading the wiring.

[86bratman]

Did you end up cutting the the wire from #82 or did the new neutral switch fix your problem?

[jjay03]

I think I left the wiring how it was and just put in the new switch and adjusted the throttle cable. 1lt of motul 300 and 2.5 quarts of redline lightweight shockproof really improved shifting also.