Fears in buying an EJ25

[Muse]

I'm looking at replacing my '95 Legacy that has been damaged in a crash. I have found a nice-looking 1996 Outback with an EJ25 and an automatic (ugh. but I can't find a manual anywhere.) But I've heard dreadful things about the reliability of EJ25s. This car will be used for delivering at Domino's pizza, and I'm looking at putting about 350-450 miles on it a week, so I can't have it out of commission for an engine tear down.

I have found an article online that says:

"In 1996 on the 2.5l engine Subaru used a composite type head gasket similar in construction to the head gaskets found in the Subaru Legacy & Impreza 2.2l engine. Starting in 1997 and used through 1999 Subaru began to use a multi layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film. And this is where the problem has started."

That seems to imply to me that the 1996 ej25 didn't really have issues. How right or wrong am I on this?

[r3v_v3ng3]

It seems to imply that. If your going to buy one then might as well do the headgasket just to be sure. From my experience, the EJ25D that I've worked on have headgasket/overheating issues while the the single cam EJ25 phase 2 burned oil/headgasket leak

[Wiscon_Mark]

From what I heard, the 96 EJ25s had very high failure rates - but if the headgasket job has been done since 2004 (likely it has had to) then it has the revised gasket that Subaru claims fixed the issue. Run some coolant conditioner in it (It's about $2 a bottle from Subaru).

[lord flashheart]

Sounds like who ever wrote that knew what they were talking about. And was probably devilishly goodlooking ;)

In all seriousness the early gen mls head gaskets were dreadful. The composite ones seemed to last much longer but they are not as durrable at higher power levels. I think the subaru engineers were conserned about how well they would last long term at the 165hp because at the time that was impressive power from a 4 cylinder at the time. Head gaskets arnt the major problem. It's the rods and rod bearings. All subarus have that problem. They seem to have gotten worse with each generation of EJ25. The D was usually good for 210k+ then the 1 was usually good for 170k+ and the 3 usually shits the bed about 120k. Just what I see. However if you are looking to push the EJ25 the EJ25D has the shittiest rod and crank design of all the ejs. Personally I think its because they keep upping the power without upgrading the quality of bearings.

[lord flashheart]

A EJ25D with acl race bearings, the 3rd gen mls head gasket and the right weight oil, and a D should do 300k no problem.

[Baddog]

A EJ25D with acl race bearings, the 3rd gen mls head gasket and the right weight oil, and a D should do 300k no problem.

Currently running ACL race bearings in my EJ25D/Ej22E build. So far so good at 2k. Not much time in yet, I know.

With the new MLS gasket of course and Rotella T6 5w40 oil

[Huffer]

Link that online article.

Bottom line is, if the HG's haven't been replaced with the newer metal ones, then it's likely that they'll go at somepoint. My last BK had 115k on it, and had the HGs replaced at 70k or so before the originals failed, and that engine was solid apart from a minor oil leak at the front main seal.

[Dead91silvia]

EJ25D's do have some problems for sure...

However, They are not that bad, if taken care of. Always make sure they have coolant and oil, and they are happy! Also dont beat the living crap out of them and do oil changes when needed.

I just did HG's in a customers 97 Limited OB. It had 180K on it and had never had them done. Car is now running great and good to go. I took some time to look at the old gaskets and they are not even close to the same as the new OEM Subaru ones I installed.

Also food for thought... Last night my Bd rolled over to 250K... Now the motor is not original, but that does not mean the motor has less miles. The motor is from a 98 Forester and has 30K more then the car. So the motor is now at 280K. She is a bit loud (piston slap and bearing noise), but thats expected with miles like that and a driver like me! I beat the living crap out of my car, but I make sure the oil is full (and changed) and she always has her coolant.

They can be reliable, if they are taken care of.

As for the HG's. If they havent been done, budget $1000-1500 and have that ready when they go, or have them done when you first get it. The one I just finished was about $1400 and that also included t-belt and a load of other goodies! After that, it shouldnt need anything major for 60-100K.

Also, you can convert to an EJ22, if you really wanted to, but I like having 4 cams... :grin:

[Wiscon_Mark]

My Forester has 242k on it. The motor is quiet and has lots of oomph. Only problem is a leak towards the rear of the engine (I think its the valve cover gasket on the driver's side). It's very minor, no discernable difference in oil level. Coolant level is constant & temp stays put, no problems whatsoever.

[lord flashheart]

EJ25D's do have some problems for sure...

However, They are not that bad, if taken care of. Always make sure they have coolant and oil, and they are happy! Also dont beat the living crap out of them and do oil changes when needed.

I just did HG's in a customers 97 Limited OB. It had 180K on it and had never had them done. Car is now running great and good to go. I took some time to look at the old gaskets and they are not even close to the same as the new OEM Subaru ones I installed.

Also food for thought... Last night my Bd rolled over to 250K... Now the motor is not original, but that does not mean the motor has less miles. The motor is from a 98 Forester and has 30K more then the car. So the motor is now at 280K. She is a bit loud (piston slap and bearing noise), but thats expected with miles like that and a driver like me! I beat the living crap out of my car, but I make sure the oil is full (and changed) and she always has her coolant.

They can be reliable, if they are taken care of.

As for the HG's. If they havent been done, budget $1000-1500 and have that ready when they go, or have them done when you first get it. The one I just finished was about $1400 and that also included t-belt and a load of other goodies! After that, it shouldnt need anything major for 60-100K.

Also, you can convert to an EJ22, if you really wanted to, but I like having 4 cams... :grin:

that's what I was saying the 25D is the best of the EJ25.
The rod bearings are usually good for over 220k. Taken good care of much more than that. But they do have issues with the older head gaskets.
The EJ25 seems to be getting progressively worse imho.

People get confused with my opinion of the 25D.
Reliable yes
Easy to work on yes
Heads have amazing potential for power.
The 4bolt 48mm journal crank 25D don't handle the power like I wish they did.
I have so far only seen 3 broken subaru cranks. 2 were EJ25D, and one was a (supposedly) STi crank doing like 900 all the 52mm journal cranks are awesome. Never break.

In essense the EJ25D isn't good for 400+ HP like the EJ251 cranks and rods. Thats my only gripe with that engine. Well that and the combustion chamber was made for a 2.0 so the flow kinda sucks. Subaru lost some power potential by don't making a seperate casting for the 25D.

[lord flashheart]

A EJ25D with acl race bearings, the 3rd gen mls head gasket and the right weight oil, and a D should do 300k no problem.

Currently running ACL race bearings in my EJ25D/Ej22E build. So far so good at 2k. Not much time in yet, I know.

With the new MLS gasket of course and Rotella T6 5w40 oil


Shining example of an engine that will go over 300k. Do what he did.

[Muse]

... wait, I'm not that well trained in the numbers. did he put EJ22 heads on an EJ25? or... what?

[lord flashheart]

Hopefully 25D heads on a 22 block

[1996Battlewagon]

Hopefully 25D heads on a 22 block

Switch it. Baddog's running a 25D block with 22E heads.

[Baddog]

Yeah. Didn't do a turbo build.

Didn't want to buy an EM system and all the turbo lines and tapping.

Had it been more affordable I wouldve done it.

We had heads with delta cams in the shop laying around and a good 96 2.5d block that I threw new rings and bearings in. All in all after gaskets and stuff I was into it 400.

Now it has freeway pull power. For the cost of almost nothing. Price per performance in my case was very high.