possible slipping clutch?

[GTDrifter]

My girls 2003 outback 5mt kinda shudders when pulling out in first. it only does it on cold starts (even in summer) and stops once the car is heated up. happens only in first when accelerating from zero. is this the start of a worn clutch or something else? Car stays in gear.

[chuckthefuk]

Bad pressure plate.

[GTDrifter]

Would it be wise to do the whole setup while were in there? Car has 210k and idk if it was ever replaced

[chuckthefuk]

From my understanding the pressure plate had been revised on the later years to take care of this "shuddering" problem.

..
I would assume taking everything apart would warrant a replacement but I don't have the experience or the skill to decide that.

-Chuck

[98legacygt22]

From my understanding the pressure plate had been revised on the later years to take care of this "shuddering" problem.

..
I would assume taking everything apart would warrant a replacement but I don't have the experience or the skill to decide that.

-Chuck

I'd recommend replacing everything while in there especially with the amount of miles on the car. While your in there check the rear main seal and oil/air separator plate (upgrade to the metal one if it doesn't have it already) no need to mess with the flywheel unless it has hot spots but I changed out the clutch in my buddies 98 OB and it only took roughly 3 hours start to finish. You just need to remove the radiator, unbolt the engine and pull it forward a few inches so you can get at the bolts.

[1055]

Fair warning.. replacing everything wont necessarily get rid of the shudder. I have 600 miles on my exedy replacement and it does it the exact same as my 169k mile one did.

[ctbrighton]

I have a cold shudder when I try to take off from low rpm or certain downshifting situations. I suppose it gets less noticeable after a couple miles, but I gave up caring.

This is on my 98 with a new (exedy) clutch kit and resurfaced flywheel, it was worse when it was new ~ 10k ago.

[98legacygt22]

I have a cold shudder when I try to take off from low rpm or certain downshifting situations. I suppose it gets less noticeable after a couple miles, but I gave up caring.

This is on my 98 with a new (exedy) clutch kit and resurfaced flywheel, it was worse when it was new ~ 10k ago.

This is because you are not suppose to resurface Subaru flywheels, of course I know someone will say I'm wrong but I'm not.. even Subaru says not to. OEM flywheels are cheap enough anyway...

[GTDrifter]

Thanks for the info guys. When we fix it we'll replace everything while were in there. I wouldn't resurface the flywheel because I know some machinists and well, Helen Keller could do a better job than some of them

[1055]

You are not supposed to resurface them, but it is done all the time and works 99% of the time for a stock power level car.

[ctbrighton]

I have a cold shudder when I try to take off from low rpm or certain downshifting situations. I suppose it gets less noticeable after a couple miles, but I gave up caring.

This is on my 98 with a new (exedy) clutch kit and resurfaced flywheel, it was worse when it was new ~ 10k ago.

This is because you are not suppose to resurface Subaru flywheels, of course I know someone will say I'm wrong but I'm not.. even Subaru says not to. OEM flywheels are cheap enough anyway...
Noone has ever explained why, including you.

[1055]

Resurfacing the flywheel moves the contact surface further from the reccomended engagement point. You're removing material without moving the rest of the assembly closer. You can get away with a tiny amount of material, but anything more than a few thousandths will lead to a cold start chatter.

Its just the way it works when you dont have an adjustable slave assembly.

[ctbrighton]

I have a cable clutch on my 98.

And you're talking about two different things. A mechanism with an inch of travel(throw out bearing), a couple thousandths isn't going to make a difference.

However, a clutch with a stepped flywheel will be affected by what you just described. My flywheel was flat.

[ctbrighton]

My girls 2003 outback 5mt kinda shudders when pulling out in first. it only does it on cold starts (even in summer) and stops once the car is heated up. happens only in first when accelerating from zero. is this the start of a worn clutch or something else? Car stays in gear.
To answer the OP, the problem most likely lies with the flywheel. With 210K on it, I am almost positive the flywheel has 3 evenly spaced hotspots on the surface that affect the engagement of the clutch disc.

When you replace the clutch, your options are to either upgrade to a lightweight or settle with a new OEM. The 3rd option is to get it resurfaced. I did and it does not affect drive-ability nor functionality.

[1055]

I have a cable clutch on my 98.

And you're talking about two different things. A mechanism with an inch of travel(throw out bearing), a couple thousandths isn't going to make a difference.

However, a clutch with a stepped flywheel will be affected by what you just described. My flywheel was flat.

The thing is... a couple thousandths does make a difference. I mean its kind of obvious it does or we wouldnt be having this discussion.

What do I know though, ive only been doing this for a living for years.

Oh and heres my last one that got resurfaced, this was 700 ish miles on it and omly 4 thousandths were taken off. You can see the only two places the clutch was able to make contact.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/3ynu7ysa-1.jpg

The best example of this is class 4 and up trucks. I just did a clutch in my 97 international 4700. Had to take 3 thousandths off the flywheel after 224k miles.. the linkage went from being adjusted all the way out to all the way in (about 4" of threaded rod in order to get it to engage normally.)

Its a carefully engineered science for a reason.

[ctbrighton]

Again, you mentioned two different problems. A static slave cylinder and machining a flywheel(reducing travel)

And machining a stepped flywheel improperly. Although I would argue that most 90's and early 2000 subaru EJ series are NOT stepped.

I think what we're finding out here is that OEM subaru flywheels suck and that's why they're only $100 new.

Your truck scenario-did you measure the height of the fingers of the new vs old pressure plate?

[1055]

Oe replacement international clutch, straight from international.

The one shown above is not a stepped flywheel.. thats an ej251 oe flywheel.

Height differed by about 3 thousandths of an inch... exactly what we took off the flywheel... and the entire thing is one mechanism. They may be two seperTe components to a machine, bit without either the machine would not work.. thus you're argument about two different components is void.

[1055]

Like I said before.. 99% of the time you wont have an issue resurfacing them, but even a brand new flywheel can cause first gear cold start chatter.

[chuckthefuk]

:-( my clutch just went on me within 4 minutes of driving :-(

Off i go to get a Stage 2 bully... and slew of OE replacement items. I'll post as it gets fixed. ETA sunday..

[ctbrighton]

Two things and this will officially have been beaten to death.
1. Removing .003 from a flywheel yields an adjustment of a clutch cable by 4". I don't believe it, But i'd have to see a picture of the fork before making that call. Perhaps keeping the discussion to EJ or EA motors would be a good idea.
2 700 Miles on a resurfaced flywheel(ej series, got it) and 2 hot spots form, inducing chatter. I believe it. That's probably what happened to mine, yours, the OP's, it's hardly noticeable.


They may be two seperTe components to a machine, bit without either the machine would not work.. thus you're argument about two different components is void.
Not sure where I used the words components, but I am really just trying to figure out why resurfaced subaru flywheels chatter.

I had the adjustment of my clutch cable to the point where the TOB was engaged much less than the 1/8" of fork travel recommmended and it still chattered. If it's a material issue than that's out of my league, but I tend to think once these develop hot spots they never truly resolve themselves after a resurface.

[98legacygt22]

I have a cold shudder when I try to take off from low rpm or certain downshifting situations. I suppose it gets less noticeable after a couple miles, but I gave up caring.

This is on my 98 with a new (exedy) clutch kit and resurfaced flywheel, it was worse when it was new ~ 10k ago.

This is because you are not suppose to resurface Subaru flywheels, of course I know someone will say I'm wrong but I'm not.. even Subaru says not to. OEM flywheels are cheap enough anyway...
Noone has ever explained why, including you.

Maybe it's reasons that need not be explained. If Subaru recommends I do or don't do something I don't question it I just do what they say.. after all.. they design these cars right?