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View Full Version : 1998 Legacy Outback tranny swap 4EAT to 5MT



SubaGlue
01-30-2013, 10:06 PM
I originally posted this on legacygt.com and nasioc, I am caschmidt on those two forums.


This is a full and complete write-up on my second transmission swap on my second gen legacy outback. I will try to be as detailed as possible for anybody that is thinking of attempting this to get an idea of the amount of work involved. This project requires a lot of mechanical knowledge, money, time, resources, and most importantly the ability to find a way around anything one may encounter. As this was my second time doing this, I ass-u-med that it would be easier the second time around. I was wrong. I hoped to get it back on the road within half a week or so, but it ended up taking a full week of searching for parts, ordering and waiting for parts, among many other problems. This is a very long and thorough write up, but I'd rather include too much info than not enough. So bare with me.....

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This is the boring part, but is definitely worth including as a background. I got the car for cheap ($550) with a dying 2.5. I picked up a 2.2 engine for $300 and with the help of Legacygt.com (specifically 987687), discovered that the 2.2 plugs right in, with little to no modifications. I got the car back on the road within a month or so and really lucked out with the engine that I got. It was in great shape. The car had some issues that needed to be addresses, but none were urgent. Brakes, exhaust, fluid changes.... There was just one problem with the engine that I got. It did not have an EGR set up (exhaust gas recirculation). This is an emissions related "fuel saver" that threw a Check Engine Light (CEL) almost immediately. So I could not pass inspection. I tried tricking the computer but nothing seemed to work. I dealt with the issue a few months later and about 10,000 miles by finding an even cheaper engine for $150. Its easy enough to replace that I didnt feel like replacing the whole manifold and welding into the headers to get true exhaust gas. I later found out from 987687 on LGT.com that instead of welding into the exhaust, one can reroute to the intake past the MAF before the throttle body. Huge thanks go to the infinite help I have received from him. Anyway, this cheaper engine was not in as good shape as the first one I got. But it still ran fine so I kept it for another 7,000 miles or so. It turns out that the manual 2.2s did not come with EGR, but the automatics did. All of the 2nd gen 2.5 outbacks came with EGR I believe. At one point I tried a manual 2.5 OB ECU but it did not work, prior to finding out that it was only the 2.2 MTs that came without it. I thought that if I change the car to a manual, and the computer thinks it has a manual, then I theoretically could use an engine without EGR and it would not throw a code. After the swap I discovered that it still threw an EGR code, and later found out that only the 2.2 MTs had no EGR. So I will need to find a brain thats from a 98 2.2, and in theory I should no longer get an EGR code. *fingers crossed*

So one day the car starts acting up. I still think it is possessed because I still haven't found the problem. It idled high, around 1,000 or 1,100 RPM. While I was driving, the car would go into fail-safe mode. This retards the timing and gives the engine very little power, and doesn't let it rev past 4500 rpm in hopes to save the engine from internal damage because it thinks something is horribly wrong. The code it threw initially was P1507: Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) malfunction fail-safe. This made sense because it seemed to only happen while I came to a stop in D, when the revs would fall to idle. A high idle can also clog up an IACV. It did not happen all the time but it was too frequent. If I turned the car off and back on it would reset itself, but would usually just happen again the next time I stopped. So I had a third 2.2 that I got for $60 and mainly used for parts. I swapped over the IACV but it did the same exact thing immediately. So that probably wasn't the cause of it. I tinkered with the throttle cable to make sure that the TB wasn't open just a little too far. That did not help. I replaced the TPS (throttle position sensor) from one I grabbed at the junkyard. That did not help. It seemed that everything I tried was not working. The AT OIL TEMP light occasionally flashed 16x upon start up after going into limp mode. The owners manual says "there is a problem with the trans control. see dealer." As if............. I tried the secret handshake I got from ultimatesubaru, but could not seem to get it to work, as was the case with most of the posts on that thread.

My thoughts were, maybe the trans was putting the engine into limp mode to save the trans from damage. The 4EAT always shifted funny from the first day I drove it. It shifted hard from 1st to 2nd, and hesitated, sometimes 3 seconds or more, from 2nd to 3rd. I read that if you change the fluid a bunch of times it will cure it, but after the 3rd fluid change I just gave up. It never seemed to get any worse in the 17,000 miles that I drove it. I thought maybe the trans realized it was failing and was trying to do something about it (typical limp mode for an AT is to stay in 3rd, but it still shifted through all the gears). This was a good chance to get rid of the 4EAT while I had a chance. The rest of the car is in good shape and wanted to hang onto it. And if it was an engine issue, I could use the old 2.2 (the original replacement without EGR) to hopefully solve the issue.

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The car that was swapped was a 1998 Legacy Outback Limited, 30th anniversary ed, (yes with dual sunroofs!!). I live in central NH but ended up doing the swap in PA with a warm garage and my brother and friends to help. I packed up everything that I could think of that I might need in the back of the wagon and hauled it down the 370 miles to PA with the chance of it going into limp mode. It drove fine on the highway so long as I didnt come to a stop. It actually made it the whole way without going into limp mode once. I only stopped once for gas and a bathroom break. I brought the trans, rear diff, engine, driveshaft, trans xmember, clutch, flywheel, along with many tools, fluids, and spare bolts. She was very weighed down, I hit the bump stops more than once :D yay for wagons! The first few days I spent waiting for some more parts and trying to diagnose the problem with my buddy Spencebot.

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Here's a list of the parts I needed. I thought of mostly everything before I got started, but there were many unforeseen missing linkages and brackets that I needed. Many mistakes and chances taken....


$20- Transmission crossmember with trans mount. Ran into a big problem with this....
300- 5MT tranny and rear diff combo (ratios MUST match!) from an '00 legacy GT. 4.11 final drive.
40- driveshaft (the MT is longer than the AT)
20- short shifter (did not fit, did not use)
64- shifter linkage (from an 09 impreza)
43- heater core hoses and clamps (they were deteriorating and it would have been stupid to not to do while the engine was out
5- exhaust gaskets
32- thermostat from Subaru (I've had bad luck with aftermarket ones...)
128- Clutch kit
29- pedal assembly (just need the clutch/brake. The gas pedal is the same on the AT and MT)
45- master cylinder, slave cyl and clutch lines. Failed, ended up having to buy replacements,
30- replacement master and slave
37- starter (found at junkyard, looked at the mileage on the car i took it off of after I removed it. car had 258k on it... the starter is very tired
91- 5 qts of royal purple 75W-90 gear oil for the tranny and rear diff.
16- coolant and muffler repair kit
48- linkage for shifter that did not come with the assy
55- clutch fork with clips and boot, washer and bushing for shift linkage, and flywheel bolts (the ones that hold on the flywheel are longer than the ones that hold on the flexpate on the AT)
115- bracket on the back of the trans that hold the shifter on, clutch bolts (hold the clutch to flywheel), and CV boot repair kit (both front inner boots were torn)
15- washers and bolts that should have been on the trans. a few were missing. I knew it had been taken apart but there were also important sensors that were missing, Neutral and reverse switches, along with the speed sensor.



Total I spend more than $1,100. This was a couple hundred more than I wanted to spend. There were so many odds and ends that needed to be addressed for the swap to be a success. My main problem with this project was that I did not have one specific donor car. I grabbed all the parts from many vehicles and many different sources. This was a BIG mistake. I spent way more than I needed to and ran into so many problems. Having a donor car is not necessary, but extremely encouraged. I spent so much time and money fixing or adding stuff that should have been there in the first place. While the engine was out of the car, I replaced the timing belt and water pump with spare new parts because I did not know how many miles were on the current one. After taking it apart, it appeared pretty worn. I'm glad I replaced it. As I was doing the water pump, Spencebot regreased the pulleys which were also very worn. While the trans was out, I had my brother replace the CV boots.

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Here is the process as clearly as I can remember step by step. I lost track of the days as they passed but the whole process took about a week including waiting for parts and searching for solutions.....

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4510_zps80e2a584-1.jpg

Started off by unloading everything from the car. Used the engine hoist to take out the engine I would be using from the cargo area. Cleaned and prepped the garage for the swap. Put the car on jack stands and started taking it apart. Started with the exhaust and heat shield under the driveshaft. I drained the rear diff and the trans fluid before taking them out. I also drained the coolant and took out the radiator. I removed everything in the engine bay so that the engine and trans could come out freely. I took out the front left axle bolt and the control arm so that the axle would come out. I left the axle on the other side in like I did with my last swap. As long as you remove the pin, it will slide out with relative ease when the trans comes out. Just remember to slide it out and slide it back into place when removing/ installing the trans. I removed the tail section of the driveshaft so that I could tackle the rear differential.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4512_zps8e0e0a32-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4514_zpsf0a00f4a-1.jpg

The bolts on the back of the rear diff were very rusted, but I managed to get a grip on them and break them free after some struggling. Eventually I got the diff to fall, lowering it with the jack. The front end of the diff had to be lowered first, then the whole thing had to slide forwards. This is because the studs that hold it to the rear subframe sticks out pretty far and has to slide out. After the studs were free, the diff was hanging by the 2 rear axles which did not need to be removed. After some careful prying, we got both axles free and finally the rear diff was out. While the process was fresh in my head I started putting the new diff in. In reverse order, I got both axles partially in the diff, and managed to bolt it into place. The 2 axles popped out but would not pop back in all the way. They were in the diff but not entirely secure. We ended up taking off the rear wheels and axle bolts, and with the biggest hammer we could find, hit the axles out of the hubs to force them to seat into the diff. It worked with both sides and we simply put the axle bolt back on to make it gut'n'tight. Rear diff was complete!

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While I was waiting for my friend to wake up, and eventually show up, I tackled the pedal assembly and the shifter. The pedals are a huge PITA. It can be done without lowering the steering column, but it makes it a lot easier if theres more wiggle room. The black plastic cover comes off, and there are 2 bolts holding the column up. Simply remove those and it fall enough to get the pedals in and out. The AT brake pedal comes out fairly easily. I kept the switch used for the brake lights and transferred it over to the manual setup. The gas pedal has to be removed before the assy can come all the way out. The TCM (trans control module) is attached to the brake assy and will come out with it. The manual assy has the clutch and brake on the same frame, and it bolts right up to the same holes. Before installing all the way I had to remove the little black plug that took the place of the master cyl. After some wrestling past a huge bundle of wires it went in. I tightened it all up and reattached the gas pedal. Bolted up the steering column and put the plastic cover back. Heres the master cyl hole and the very crowded pedal assy

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4547_zps732cf3cd-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4522_zps482a627c-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4519_zps0f460867-1.jpg

The AT shifter was fairly easy. The center console has to come out to get to all of the bolts and screws but it is relatively painless. There are 6 or so screws holding it in at the top, and the 2 bolts and pin holding the linkage to the trans. After unhooking that from underneath the AT shifter was free.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4523_zps44159c6b-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4524_zps414c1202-1.jpg

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After removing everything that was attached to the engine and trans, it was ready to come out as one unit. We started jacking the engine hoist and got it about 6" into the air, and the whole thing started slowly sinking. The cheap engine hoist was failing us and couldnt hold up the engine and trans. We set it back in the car and tried to diagnose the hoist. I am very thankful that Spencebot knew how to drain the fluid and troubleshoot it..... I would have been screwed at that point. After some tinkering he determines that there was definitely a leak. we drained the oil and put in some thicker stuff that we had. After hours of BSing with the thing we finally got it to the point where it was manageable. It still sank but much more slowly than it was before. It was enough to finally wrestle the mass of engine and trans out of the car! During the process of moving the mass forwards, I had to crawl underneath and remove the remaining bolts holding in the AT xmember. The floor jack was ready underneath the tail of it to assist in rolling it forwards. Spencebot ingeniously used a ratchet strap to pull the tail of the trans up so that we could clear the body while lifting it over.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4525_zps5b54515a-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4531_zps99d08b53-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4528_zps5f23a577-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4535_zps4030a8d9-1.jpg

SubaGlue
01-30-2013, 10:07 PM
The next day I took care of a bunch of little things while waiting for more parts. This time I was waiting for the flywheel bolts and the bracket that held the shifter to the trans. I patched up the holes in the exhaust from the harsh salt infested NH winters which was very time consuming. I also installed the shifter linkage inside the car. It was from an 09 impreza so the boots and rubber bits didn't quite match up, but no matter, it fit in after poking some holes and shaving off some foam.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4546_zps92998a64-1.jpg

I also took out the plugs that went in place of the subframe for the MT. The MT trans crossmember is much larger than the 4EAT. Even though the MT is smaller, it sits much farther forwards than the AT and it needs a support farther forwards that bolts into the body right near the control arm bolt. There are plastic plugs that pop out. I remembered the bolts for these holes when I took one from the junkyard, you will need them

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4544_zpse034501d-1.jpg

There are also two similar but smaller plugs just behind the where the shifter comes through the body. These bolt holes are for the bushing that holds the shifter in place. I also remembered these bolts from the junkyard. I believe they are the same size the bolts that hold in the pedal assy, so using some if these not rusty bolts is a good idea.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4543_zps7ae87fe3-1.jpg

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The next thing to deal with was the starter. Because the trans came out of a newer car, there are 6 or 8 bolts holding the engine to the trans, and the starter uses 2 of those bolts to mount. The older engine I have only has 4 bolts holding the engine and trans together, so we had to make a bolt out of the second hole. Spencebot had a great idea of getting a helicoil. This is essentially in the form of a spring that acts as a thread for a bolt. The hole we had to use was rather large, so we got a tap to thread the hole, and put the helicoil in between the bolt and the threaded hole. It was very difficult to get the helicoil in the threads we made because every time we twisted it, the thing effectively decompressed and wouldn't thread in. After some fancy fingerwork, he got it to work and it was the perfect fit!

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4552_zps3c4fda55-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4553_zpsb541e3b0-1.jpg

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After forgetting to buy the clutch bolts (the ones that hold the clutch onto the flywheel) and waiting for them to arrive, We finally assembled the clutch and attached the engine to the 5MT. It was amazing to see how much smaller the whole assy was compared to the 4EAT.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4556_zps91eaf36f-1.jpg

The engine hoist was still operating enough to get the MT in the car. We slowly lowered it down while putting the floor jack underneath the tail to hold it up and roll it back into place while hooking up part of the shifter. Once the engine mounts were settled into the front subframe bolted in the trans xmember to hold up the MT. I tightened all those up and reconnected most of the things on the engine. I put the radiator back in after some struggling. It seemed that the accessories like power steering pump and AC compressor were strangely close to the radiator. Even with the radiator completely attached, the AC clutch rubbed against the fan on the radiator. There was something obviously wrong, this was way off.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4565_zps99721089-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4564_zpseacc8f7a-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4562_zps6aff9831-1.jpg

I crawled underneath and saw that the shifter was wedged up against the body, forcing the entire engine and trans forwards while twisting the engine mounts. I thought maybe because the shift linkage was from an 09 impreza that maybe it was a different length. I managed to free the linkage but the engine/trans did not move back into place like i was expecting. I was baffled. I could not figure it out. It was obvious that it was not sitting right. The torsion mount (that attached from the firewall to the top of the trans was not even close to lining up.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4561_zpsd26ec58f-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4566_zpsdea2ea06-1.jpg

The next day we got a fresh look at it, and we realized that the Outback not only has higher springs and shocks to make it taller than the legacy, but also has spacers in the subframes that are about an inch and a quarter or 3 cm that separate it from the body. This effectively lowers the center of gravity of the car by lowering the whole drivetrain on the outbacks. The trans subframe I got was from an impreza, which bolted right up. This basically pivoted the entire engine/trans on the front subframe. the tail of the trans was up too high and it was in turn making the front of the engine too far forward. We searched for the whole day trying to find longer bolts that would fit, and spacers to secure it to the body. We found some temporary washers and put it into place.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4577_zps94a69762-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4576_zpsa1af8ffe-1.jpg

Later on, we found out that the trans xmember is shaped differently. the front has 2 thick spacers welded to it, and the arch in the back is much shorter. We grabbed one from the junkyard and this was one of the last things we replaced before got it on its wheels. This helped to resolve the shifter being too long as well. I think it is still a little too long, but it fits in and shifts great. Now everything fits the way it should. You can see by the red markings how different the subframes are when they are next to each other. The second pic you can kinda see the thick spacer they used. Sorry for the crappy pic quality

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4582_zpsb268b274-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4583_zps1ead4738-1.jpg

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The next day I finished hooking everything up on the engine. I installed the master and slave cylinders and hooked it up to the pedals. We had to wait for yet more parts.... one of the linkages that holds the shifter linkage onto the trans, the one that actually selects the gear, was missing from both the tranny and the shifter linkage. Thankfully we got it without too long of a wait. But there was a piece missing.... We attached it but the shifter was super floppy and definitely not right. I crawled underneath and realized that one of the bolts was moving freely inside the bushing. There should have been a small cylindrical piece that slides into those two blue plastic bushings. It was so frustrating that this didnt come with it. Spencebot yet again came to the rescue and manufactured a cylinder shape by bending a section of brass into the exact shape and soldering it and sanding it smooth. It looks like it should have came with it to begin with, it fit perfectly.

The linkage that we had to order, and the brass cylinder that my friend made

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4571_zps26898539-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4572_zps27aab253-1.jpg

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Next we had to tackle the wiring. In my previous swap, the speed sensors were different on the AT and MT. But on this one, the speed sensor (VSS) just screwed out of the auto and right into the manual. No soldering or anything. We had to grab some reverse and neutral switches from the junkyard. The tranny should have come with them but didnt. We then inserted a pin into the blank slot on the ECU and grounded it to tell it that its a manual. This is pin 81, AT/MT identifier pin. We then ran a wire through a hole in the firewall that reads the neutral switch (NSS). This was pin 82 on the ECU. Open circuit means its in gear, and grounded makes it think it is in Neutral. For whatever reason its the opposite on the AT. Typically with a manual swap you need to trick the car into thinking its in P so that the key will come out. Fortunately on my car that part had broken a long time ago, so even with the auto, it let the key out in any gear. iluvdrt on legacygt.com says that you can splice the two wires from the black switch on the auto shifter and it should let the key out. I have not tried this though. As for the reverse lights, it we poked and prodded until we found the wires under the hood. Turns out to be green with yellow stripe and black with red stripe. That we connected to the reverse switch in the trans.

The hole we used through the firewall for the NSS:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4586_zps1325e650-1.jpg



The plugs we used and soldering for the NSS and reverse switch:

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4584_zps9488ffdc-1.jpg



The VSS wire (left) we had to extend in order for it to plug in. The NSS and reverse wires again (right)

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/IMG_4585_zps98dd5aa5-1.jpg


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We finally took it for a test drive and everything seemed to be working smoothly. It was a relief to finally see the trans work. The next day we were on our way to the junkyard for some odds and ends and the clutch started sticking halfway. Eventually it just stopped working. good thing we were on our way to the junkyard! My friend came and rescued us and took us to the JY to get replacement parts

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/DA14405C7E594F3B9B7DF5BC7FAD8D6F24120000-1.jpg

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/10DB69612BED4C61AC9B1273D5DBCB4F24120000-1.jpg

Turns out there was a huge leak......... We werent quite sure where it was coming from so while we were at the junkyard we got a master and a slave, and my buddy had a stainless steel clutch line for his 2013 BRZ. All of which fit right in and its working great now. The transmission is in GREAT shape. It feels brand new, the synchros are perfect. The thing runs like a brand new car aside from the exhaust leaks. So far I've put a little over 1,000 miles on it and its working beautifully. It made it the 400 mile back to NH and has been taking me to school. It is a great daily driver.

As for the original issue that I had with the limp mode, it still happens, but not as frequently. I can seem to control it a little better with the manual. It is still a problem though. I replaced some of the things that stayed with the swap: the MAF and the VSS, which leaves the ECU, the AF sensor, the o2 sensor, or a bad connection somewhere. I am still tinkering and will post if I ever figure out this problem...









MANY MANY THANKS go to:

my great friend Spencer for devoting so much time to helping me
my brother for helping with random odds and ends..
987687 from legacygt.com for giving me a huge amount of useful information
iluvdrt on legactgt.com for his writeup, which can be found here:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.p ... 36840.html (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/05wrx-5-spd-98-legacy-gt-wgn-auto-5spd-conversion-136840.html)





Anybody interested in seeing my first swap write-up on my 3rd gen legacy, its not as long:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.p ... 1+4eat+5mt (http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2001-legacy-4eat-5mt-manual-swap-write-up-186828.html?t=186828&highlight=2001+4eat+5mt)

chuckthefuk
01-30-2013, 10:20 PM
Very nice ! What a pain though :-/

harrymaneuvers
01-30-2013, 10:36 PM
Good Info man!!!!!!

I am right in the middle of this myself and used iluvedirt's write up... I actually just messaged him today in hopes of a cleaner write-up in regards to the inhibitor switch pigtail where only the 4 bottom wires (Park/Neutral switch and Reverse switch) are needed.

I assume that your AT car didnt come with the plugs under the dash for the two (one for cruise) clutch pedal switches.

Did you retain the use of cruise control and ABS?

Thanks for sharing!

SubaGlue
01-31-2013, 10:44 AM
I have not even tried the cruise yet. My last swap on my third gen held the throttle randomly even when the cruise wasn't on, so I unhooked the cruise throttle cable. On this swap I didn't attach the cruise throttle cable to begin with. And no it did not come with the plugs for the clutch. I didn't bother attaching them I don't think I'm stupid enough to start it in gear *knock on wood*

As far as abs, I have not figured out how to get it to work yet. I just messaged iluvdrt last night but haven't gotten a reply yet. My third gen I plugged in one of the two TCM plugs and the abs worked. No luck using that method on the second gen. I am trying to research I'll post if/when I figure it out. I think I read somewhere that if you use an abs pump from a manual, it won't search for the TCM signal, but I am not sure if this is the case.

harrymaneuvers
01-31-2013, 02:11 PM
I doubt it would be the pump... more like the ABS control module that would be different from AT to MT.

So then just to double check:

Wires 9 gets hooked up to one pole of the reverse switch coming off the tranny. Wire 10 goes to the other pole on the reverse switch coming from the tranny. It doesnt matter which pole on the reverse switch connector you attach wire 9 or 10 as long as the other wire goes to the other pole on the connector correct?

Wires 11 and 12 go to the neutral switch on the tranny in the same fashion as above? Because I think that is where the neutral switch on the clutch pedal needs to be wired in.
If you look at this page of the wiring diagram... you see that wire 12 on an AT car is the switched ignition source. On an MT car... instead of going to wire 12, the switched ignition source goes to the starter interlock relay wires 4 and 2.

The wire from the starter which would go to wire position 11 on the inhibitor pig tail goes to pin 3 of the stater interlock relay.

Then a wire from the relay to the clutch pedal switch. And finally ground the other wire to the clutch pedal switch.

So the two wires coming from the tranny neutral switch need to get spliced with wires 11 and 12 from the inhibitor switch. But off of the wire 12 connection I also need to have a wire going to the starter interlock relay wires 4 and 2.

Then have a wire running from wire 11 to wire 3 on the starter interlock relay and then from pin 1 on the starter lock relay to the clutch pedal switch.



Is that correct? If so, then I assume I cannot take the AT shift lock control module out of the car as it is the only thing that is communicating with the Key Lock solenoid and key warning switch.

Do I need to do anything with the Park wires that are attached to the AT shift selector?

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/01/NeutralSwitchWiring-1.jpg

SubaGlue
01-31-2013, 08:12 PM
I have to admit my friend did most of the wiring. That is mostly witchcraft to me.... But I will try to explain as clearly as I can. The clutch safety switch IS NOT the same as the NSS. The clutch switch acts like the auto does when it is in R or D, it simply will not allow it to start. So if you could find a way to wire the clutch switch up to that, then that should work. But I never wanted this feature in the first place so I did not bother. The NSS is used completely differently. Primarily it is used for cruise. So that if you have the cruise on and you pop it out of gear without engaging the clutch, then it won't hold the revs. The other use (that I know of) of the NSS from my past swap experience is to hold the throttle so that it will slip out of gear easier. On my third gen legacy, I did not connect the NSS. instead, I let it hang (it thought it was in gear) and I had this weird rev holding issue. When I went to change to the next gear, it would hold the revs for a second or two, and I would have to wait to engage the next gear. It was very annoying. So I read online and found out that the neutral position pin on the MT was grounded when in N, and on the AT it was the opposite for whatever reason. So instead of connecting it to the NSS on the trans, I just grounded it. Now, when I go to change gears and let off the gas while I push in the clutch, it kind of shocks the drivetrain with deceleration, if that makes sense. So the NSS holds the throttle, even if you're off the gas so that its not as jolting on the drivetrain. As soon as it is in N fully, it will immediately let off the throttle. I suppose you could connect the neutral position signal from the ECU to the clutch switch, but from what I've read it never runs right unless its actually connected to the NSS. On this swap we wired it up correctly and it starts and idles perfectly normal. Let me know if that needs any more clarification.....

As for the reverse, We poked and prodded for quite a while. Its not as simple as finding the R signal from the inhibitor switch. In theory it should have been the red with blue stripe but it wasn't. It was actually white with a blue stripe for the R signal from one of the AT plugs. Never question subarus absurd wiring! :P It shouldnt matter which of the two wires you use for the signal. Typically if there's a black or a black stripe or black with some color stripe, that is usually the ground and that's your safest bet.

The NSS was pin 82 in the ECU, I think its a blue with red stripe.. We fed that through the firewall through a small drain hole (we made sure it was very sealed and in theory shouldn't leak through). We just ran that right to the NSS plug on the trans and used the other wire as a ground (using one of the various grounds on the harness through the firewall). It sounds like you're trying to wire the NSS to the wires that go to the TCU and inhibitor switch. The TCM is NOT in the car. Most of the wires will not do anything if the TCM is not plugged in. Weird idling issues come about when its plugged in too. Instead you will have to get a wire through the firewall to get to pin 82 on the ECU.

In order to let the key out, you will have to keep the wires to that little black switch on your AT shifter. When this switch is connected it lets the key out, so you should be able to just connect the two wires going to it and it will let the key out. Like I said, my shift lock was broken to begin with, so I did not have to do this and I am not sure that this will work. As for the other swap I did, I just did the cheap fast way of zip tying the little solenoid on the ignition itself so that it would let the key out. Sorry I cant be of more help there.

I am trying to contact my friend about how he wired up the starter. I know we struggled for some time trying to get this to work. I will keep trying to contact him and will post when I can.... It sounds like you know what you're talking about when it comes to the starter but I cannot remember exactly what we did. I will try to clarify..


I probably just made you 1,000 times more confused. I apologize in advance..... if any of that didnt make sense please tell me.

SubaGlue
01-31-2013, 08:16 PM
Also, if you find anything out about the ABS please post

SubaGlue
01-31-2013, 08:58 PM
So I figured out the starter. Do not go through the inhibitor switch. It will not work because the TCM will not be connected.

This is what you have to do: there is a very thick red with yellow stripe wire going to the ECU. There is also an equally thick Blue with red stripe wire. These come from the ignition and go to the starter. Splice both these wires into each other, and into the normal sized red with yellow stripe wire going into the ECU (I'm sorry i dont know of the pin #, but it is on the bottom row on the left side looking at the ECU, third to the left from center). This bypasses the inhibitor switch which is no longer in the car. The wire that goes to the ECU is basically telling the computer that the car is cranking. Splicing the two thick wires would crank the car, but it might not start. The computer needs to know when its starting.

Did that make sense?

SubaGlue
02-01-2013, 08:40 AM
If anybody wants to pm me I'd be glad to give my phone number to call /text

chuckthefuk
02-01-2013, 10:21 AM
so much info. i love this thread!

Yamazaki
02-01-2013, 03:34 PM
I have bookmarked this for the future. I'm hoping there aren't many differences across generations.

harrymaneuvers
02-01-2013, 04:11 PM
Post #22 from iluvdirt's nasioc thread:

So basically after the swap I had a few problems with electrical componets.

-fuel gauge would not work with car off and read 1/4 tank low

P0130 O2 sensor fault
P1507 IAC fault
P1101 NSS fault

Stumbling when taking off, bogging down when I rev matched my shifts, poor fuel milage, stalling. So I went back to the drawing board.

I traced all the O2 sensor wires and they appeared good. I wasn't getting voltage from the ecu though and it wouldnt go to closed loop.

I saw a TSB for the 1507 and 1101 codes and how they were related, so I started with those two to try and get rid of the two codes first.

Looking at the ecu pin outs the NSS is on pin 82 which is pin 12 (blue w/red) on the auto tranny inhibitor switch (also used to start the car). The way I see it, is

Pin 12 on the inhibitor switch comes from pin 82 on the ecu and is hot from the ign switch on the auto (blue w/red) . The ecu its self also produces 5v from the same pin.

Pin 11 on the inhibitor switch goes to pin 86 on the ECU and is used to energize the starter (yellow w/ black).

Currently, these two wires are spliced together so the car will start..like it was in N or P.

I was thinking pin 12 on the inhibitor switch (the blue w/red) would also need to go to the NSS then to ground so that whenever the car is in gear it is grounded....BUT...
the start circut is intertwined with the NSS circut on my car from the factory, so basically, when the car starts (with the auto), the ecu knows it is in N. When you put it into gear, it knows it is now in D.

All I had to do was find the jumper wire between those 2 circuts which were at pin 82 on my ecu. I cut the ign switch wire off of the NSS wire (basically cut the wire coming off pin 82 on the ecu in half). I ran the NSS wire (the one coming from the ecu) to my switch then to a ground. The ign wire (the left over from the cutting) I just capped off by the ecu ( this was the jumper wire. it has no voltage now).

I ran wires 11 and 12 from the auto harness to my clutch pedal so the car will only start with the pedal down, like I did originally.

Now the cruise works, and the car stays in closed loop while driving (it used to just stay in open). My fuel gauge works now, and my O2 sensor code (P0130) is gone as well. I can watch the voltage from the O2 and it is perfect.

The car runs great now, no more bogging to rev match and stuttering when taking off. It's like a new car.

So in short, this little endevor fixed all the problems at once. In a nut shell the NSS (neutral posiiton switch) tells the ecu when it is in gear and when it is N. The ecu will not go closed loop if it thinks it is in N, and it will try to control the idle (rpms) when you are driving (the ecu doesn't know you are driving because it is stuck in N, hence the P1507 and P0130 codes). Because the fuel gauge shares the same ground circut as the NSS, when the car was off the voltage going to the fuel sending unit was instead sent to ground instead of the unit it's self because of the factory jumper. Once the jumper is removed all the circuts are isolated again.

harrymaneuvers
02-01-2013, 04:27 PM
In looking at page 24 and 25 of the wiring manual's main wiring PDF... I am pretty sure you still have your TCU installed in the car if you did what iluvdirt did.

From what I am seeing... the reverse signal (or power) and the NSS signal (or power) are still flowing through the TCU to the ECU...

Man I wish iluvdirt would chime in on this!!!!!!!! Or even Monstarmotorsports who did this very recently also.

SubaGlue
02-01-2013, 04:59 PM
aagghhhh thats frustrating. Maybe he kept his in and after doing that and it never idled funny. But ideally if you're doing a true manual swap, you dont want your tcu in the car. After all the MT cars obviously never had any TCU in them. Trust me I've tried plugging it in when the car thinks its a manual, and it idles at 2k rpm. It did that with both cars that I've swapped. Right now my car is running beautifully, no CEL besides the EGR issue (unrelated), and it does everything it should aside from the clutch switch. And my TCU is just being kicked around on the ground in my passenger foot well definitely not plugged in. So realistically you want to try to wire the thing up without using the TCU at all. Like I said, it may be possible to do it with the TCU still in, which is what iluvdrt seemed to have done. I neither ran my reverse or NSS through the TCU. i found the pin directly on the ECU for the neutral position and connected it directly to the NSS on the trans. As for reverse under the hood we poked and prodded til the reverse lights popped on.

I am not getting any response from iluvdrt either. I was the last post on that thread over a month ago and no responses :/ How far along are you on this swap?

SubaGlue
02-01-2013, 05:03 PM
Also, To clear up I never had any of the fuel gauge issues or poor running issues that he had (related to the swap anyway). There's probably more than one way to do it. Whichever way you choose is up to you....

SubaGlue
02-01-2013, 05:04 PM
I have bookmarked this for the future. I'm hoping there aren't many differences across generations.

I did one on my third gen, i posted the link at the end of this write up. Primarily the only difference is wiring

harrymaneuvers
02-01-2013, 06:12 PM
Right now my car is running beautifully, no CEL besides the EGR issue (unrelated), and it does everything it should aside from the clutch switch. And my TCU is just being kicked around on the ground in my passenger foot well definitely not plugged in.


To be clear (not ragging on you by any means), your cruise control and your ABS do not function currently correct?

I believe that is the reason for maintaining the TCU... look at the AT Control system wiring diagram. The first page shows everything related to the inhibitor switch... if you look at the second page, you see all of the other items that are tied off of the TCU... specifically the Cruise Control and the ABS control module.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... 125&page=3 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1863125&page=3)


Originally Posted by iluvdrt View Post
1. ABS - The 4EAT ABS system has a signal coming from the TCU, which you remove so your ABS no longer functions. Do not remove the TCU and you keep ABS. Use the neutral wires from the automatic selector harness to run into the NSS on the clutch. This lets the ECU think the car is in gear when the circut is open and closed for start ups when the clutch is depressed.
2. Speedometer - The difference here is the 4EAT has 2 wires for the speed sensor and 3 wires for the 5MT. Your speed will stay at 0 MPH. Use the VSS from the automatic. It fits, you just have to legthen the harness a bit. Becareful not to loose the little key inside the sensor.
3. Reverse Lights - Since you won't have the AT Shifter to tell the car it's in reverse, the car has no idea what whether you are in reverse or 1-5. wire the lights into the sensor on the tranny into the reverse section of the 4EAT harness.
4. Starter - Starter is hooked up for the 4EAT so it won't start. you need a manual starter plug the two wires together from the shifter. use the neutral coming off the trans selctor harness to start car.
5. Key Lock - The car doesn't think you are in Park so the key gets locked in.see #4, plug the shifter wires together
6. CEL - P0866 Transmission isn't sending correct signals since it's a 5MT now.
Ground out the manual ID pin on the ECU and everything is OK. There is no diff between ECU's on auto or manual, only an ID pin that is grounded.


How far along are you on this swap?

I am doing a high compression motor build while also swapping the 4eat for the 5MT from a 2010 impreza.

I am currently about to build the block, mate the heads and install the tranny but I am trying to get as much wiring done before hand as possible. My scenario is a little bit different because the 2008+ 5MT's dont have a VSS screwed into them nor do I think the internals are there to simply screw one in. So I have to use a separate item call VSS Pro to convert the signal running from the ABS speed sensor to the ECU in a form that it will recognize as the VSS.

http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?main ... ducts_id=3 (http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3)

SubaGlue
02-02-2013, 12:09 PM
Yes that is correct, I am not sure if my cruise works, i have not tried it. As for my ABS, I know there is a way around it without using the TCU. I mentioned the ABS pump because the AT one looks for a signal coming from the Trans. I think that once there is no longer a trans there, it does not let the pump work because it thinks there is something wrong. And the little circuit board on the MT pump does not look for the signal from the Trans, so in theory it should keep the ABS active. But i have been wrong in the past........... It is too cold to and I am too busy with school to go find an MT pump at a junkyard.

Like I said there is probably more than one way to do this. All i know is that on both MT swaps that I've done, when the TCU is plugged in, it idles at 2k and we could not get it to stop. Maybe if you do everything exactly like iluvdrt did, then it will work. I am not sure. I guess I took the route without the TCU..... All I can say is take whichever route you are more comfortable with.

harrymaneuvers
02-04-2013, 01:43 PM
Also found this:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16765&view=next (https://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16765&view=next)


"I reset the ECU this morning, and after driving around for a bit to run some errands, it hasn't returned yet.

I got a PM asking about the ECU wire I grounded. It was pin 81. There was no wire in that spot, so I had to improvise. To help ID the correct space 79-L, and 82-LR.

I also got the cruise control working again today, It was easier than I thought. On the plug on the CC unit I removed the pins 3-GY and 4-LR (LgB in Canada). That is all you need to do to get the cruise working. But, unless you wire in the front/blue switch on the clutch pedal, the engine will rev high if you have the cruise set and go on the clutch. To take care of that, splice the clutch switch into series with the 1-YW wire on the brake switch.

I was going to wire in the back clutch switch, so that the clutch has to be engaged to start the car, but I decided to leave it as is.

As long as the CEL stays out, I'm pretty much done with the swap. Like I mentioned, I'll grab a MT ABS unit, next time I'm at the yard."

SubaGlue
02-05-2013, 07:43 AM
Wow that's pretty useful. When do you plan on getting your car back on the road? I can try the cruise thing if you want me to before you do anymore wiring if you decide to do the wiring without the tcu. By ABS unit does he mean he pump under the hood or the control module?

harrymaneuvers
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Contrary to what I thought a few posts ago... it looks like the ABS hydraulic pumps ARE different between MT and AT.

MT part number 27529AC06A

AT part number 27529AC05A


I am still analyzing the wiring diagram to see how involved it would be to remove the TCU completely and manually wire the ABS, Cruise, Reverse, Nuetral ect.

The benefit to keeping the TCU is that all of the wiring for these components in all in one place.

I am hoping to have the motor build in the next couple weeks as well as buying the final items like a new clutch.

From there, it will really depend on when I can get someone to help with the tranny install who has installed a clutch before... I havent and would prefer to not mess it up.

I would LOVE to have the car up and running by the time the 1 year anniversary of the spun bearing gets here which was July 1st of last year.

SubaGlue
02-05-2013, 06:38 PM
Okay well I'm sure ill get to trying the cruise and abs before then. I'll post whenever I figure anything out. And clutches are not too difficult. I'd be glad to explain in pm or text or whatever. Best of luck getting it back on the road!

harrymaneuvers
02-05-2013, 07:03 PM
Yea I have a few buddies locally that can supervise with anything that I am not familiar with but thank you for the offer... I might take you up on that!

SubaGlue
02-28-2013, 09:09 PM
So I finally discovered what was causing the occasional limp mode or "fail-safe" mode. It turns out that a few days before it started doing this, I took out the speedometer cluster to try to put in the 140mph cluster. It wasn't because it goes to 140 (the 2.2 probably won't make it there under its own power :grin: ), but because the needles are white and easier to see at night. Anyway, the plug that sends the speed signal to the speedo itself is a different plug than the stock (120mph) one. So I disassembled the cluster and took out the speedo gauge itself and swapped it into the stock cluster so that it would plug in. I took it for a test drive and as I expected, it read about 38mph when I was actually doing 30. So obviously that wasn't going to work. I put everything back to the way it was and made the mistake of cross threading one of the 4 tiny screws holding the speedo in, and wasn't making enough contact with the circuit board on the back of the cluster. I took out the screw and made sure it went back in straight, and made contact with the circuit board on the back. I put it all back together and checked the codes one last time before I cleared them, and it finally threw P0500, speedometer circuit, which it had never thrown before. I heard of this problem from 987687 on legacygt.com and ultimatesubaru.com. I've driven over 1,000 miles since that fix and it hasn't gone into limp mode once. problem solved!

I've put over 3,000 miles on the manual swapped drivetrain so far, and all is well! So far nothing is leaking and everything is working smoothly.

harrymaneuvers
02-28-2013, 11:49 PM
AWESOME!!!!

98OBW
05-15-2013, 10:38 AM
Why doesn't anyone ever make wiring diagrams instead of trying to explain how they wired something up? Reading and attempting to comprehend other peoples wiring in this thread has just managed to give me a headache! haha

Dead91silvia
05-15-2013, 11:48 AM
Why doesn't anyone ever make wiring diagrams instead of trying to explain how they wired something up? Reading and attempting to comprehend other peoples wiring in this thread has just managed to give me a headache! haha

No joke... Same here. :smt017

chuckthefuk
05-15-2013, 02:37 PM
Time my friend. Its easier to type as you think then create a time crippling diagram .. If you ask nicely maybe he can take time out of his day to make you a proper diagram.

- Chuck

harrymaneuvers
05-15-2013, 02:43 PM
Very well said Chuck. Not to be a dick... but now that I have gone through all of this... I am thankful that there werent clear, super easy, step by step instructions because I never would have learned to interpret wiring diagrams.

98OBW
05-15-2013, 03:25 PM
I dunno, I find it much easier to make a diagram than attempt to explain how something works. Guess it comes from being IT and attempting to explain stuff to people that shouldn't be using computers, hah. Screenshots, screenshots and arrows everywhere!

But seriously, I can usually troubleshoot PCBs down to component level when using wiring diagrams, but attempting to make a wiring diagram to understand what's going on in this thread just gave me a headache.

SubaGlue
05-29-2013, 01:09 PM
Yeah sorry for the large number of confusing posts. It barely even makes sense to me.

But in better news.... I got the ABS to work finally! I simply unbolted the circuitry on the ABS pump itself. I didnt take the pump. I swapped it with one from a manual transmission car. All is well. Light is out and I tested it to make sure.

nikolaus.conrad
05-29-2013, 01:19 PM
Yeah sorry for the large number of confusing posts. It barely even makes sense to me.

But in better news.... I got the ABS to work finally! I simply unbolted the circuitry on the ABS pump itself. I didnt take the pump. I swapped it with one from a manual transmission car. All is well. Light is out and I tested it to make sure.
You beat me to having a dual sunroof wagon with a 5 speed :smt010


lol great work!! :smt025

98OBW
05-29-2013, 01:51 PM
I was going to swap out the pump, but since I used an ECM/5MT from a '96 and installed it all in a '97 the wiring and pump are different so I didn't bother (the '96 has a different style pump and has the ABS computer under the dash next to the glove box).

I wonder if the answer is to steal a pump off a 97+ 5MT-equipped car. I do hate the ABS on my wagon...

harrymaneuvers
05-29-2013, 02:46 PM
Yeah sorry for the large number of confusing posts. It barely even makes sense to me.

But in better news.... I got the ABS to work finally! I simply unbolted the circuitry on the ABS pump itself. I didnt take the pump. I swapped it with one from a manual transmission car. All is well. Light is out and I tested it to make sure.


Can you please elaborate on what you mean?!?! What exactly did you swap?

You kept your OEM pump in the car and just replaced the ABS Module that is under the dash?

Or did you unbolt something from the pump itself?

Pictures would help a ton.

98OBW
05-29-2013, 02:55 PM
You kept your OEM pump in the car and just replaced the ABS Module that is under the dash?

Or did you unbolt something from the pump itself?

97+ have the ABS computer in the pump itself, not under the dash like 96 and older. It's a completely different pump between the two.

harrymaneuvers
05-29-2013, 03:58 PM
So then you remove the module from the pump itself and install the module from a Manual of the same year?

Pics!!!

98OBW
05-29-2013, 04:04 PM
I'm going to look into this when I get home tonight, wonder if the whole ABS pump needs to be swapped and the system re-bled or if it's simpler than that.

SubaGlue
05-29-2013, 05:47 PM
I didnt take one from my year specifically. I just found a manual legacy. This is the pic. I unbolted that black bit and swapped it over. This is a pic from my other car but it looks exactly the same. That way the junkyard doesnt charge for a whole ABS pump, they just see some piece of circuitry.


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2013/05/0DF9B68FFD75442E8DBEDA86B57E059127520000-1.jpg (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/subaglue/media/random/0DF9B68F-FD75-442E-8DBE-DA86B57E0591-2752-0000049046FCA5C4_zpsca4c5da6.jpg.html)

SubaGlue
05-30-2013, 11:01 AM
Stupid photobucket. Picture fixed.

harrymaneuvers
05-30-2013, 12:44 PM
Just to clarify:


1. Your car does NOT have the TCU plugged in whatsoever.
2. You didnt re-wire ANYTHING to get the ABS to work
3. You simply unbolted/unplugged the Black circuitry box shown in the picture above and bolted/plugged in one from a MT
4. Your ABS now functions perfectly normal with no illuminated light (unless you slam on your brakes hard enough to activate the ABS)


Thanks for your help!

SubaGlue
05-30-2013, 01:28 PM
Yes all four of those statements are correct. I tested it on some gravel to make sure that it works. I also have no remaining CELs besides the EGR which is not trans swap related. I recently discovered metal shavings in the oil from the engine that is currently in it. I have another engine that has EGR on it that I know works, so at some point in the next month or two I *should* be getting rid of all of my CELs in order to pass inspection.

Unrelated, but unfortunately my exhaust rusted through just behind the cat and separated into two. So I can't drive it until I can find someone willing to weld...... at least it sounds good! I didnt know a 4 cyl could be so loud.

SubaGlue
06-07-2013, 01:50 PM
I fixed the EGR issue! found a model year 1998 (the body was actually stamped 11/97, but I guess it was close enough) ECU from a 2.2 legacy in the junkyard. It doesnt matter if it is auto or manual. This one happened to be auto with EGR. But because they made the 2.2 AT with EGR, and the 2.2 MT without EGR, the AT/MT identifier pin is what triggers the computer to look for EGR or not. I had tried this previously with an ECU out of a 2.5 outback, but it still threw the code. So all phase I 2.5s had EGR, whereas the 2.2 was AT/MT specific.


I was able to pass inspection, and there are currently no lights on in the instrument cluster! It looks naked because it's been so long since all of the lights were out because the car is functioning properly... I now deem this swap 100% complete in my eyes, even though I do not have cruise control functioning. But I didn't even try, nor do I want to try to get it hooked up.

98OBW
06-07-2013, 03:21 PM
Yeah when I did my swap I used the 2.2/5MT ECM from the donor car since I swapped in the 2.2/5MT from it. Only snag I ran into doing this was I needed to completely disconnect the TCU and I also had to wire in a resistor for the Fuel Temp Sensor circuit since it came from an Outback wagon.