Help choosing a EJ22t Hybrid to put in a '95 L

[couchfuzzy]

so, ive been searching here and nasioc for a couple hours looking for the best route to take here but being new to the turbo world im getting a bit lost due to a lot of conflicting info im reading...


Available:
-I've got a seized up DOHC ej22e i'm pulling out of my 95 Legacy
-I've also got a complete ej22t longblock out of a '94 SS

-and technically, a DOHC ej25d, although this is in my dd '98 fozzy so i can't afford too much downtime to swap parts (unless it's worth it)

i'v never had a turbo'd motor before although ive gained a bit of knowledge by reading around,

Goals:
-I really want to shoot for more torque and low end acceleration than anything high end, this will end up as a dd/lightly tracked car...
-Aiming for 250whp
-Want to stay obdII

Budget:

- i'd like to upgrade the minimum to get the car running to start as inexpensively as possible ..and then build on it from there to find out which direction i want to go from there..
-College student, i probably wont be dropping more than about $300 on a single part


Build plan rough draft:

-1st gen Turbo Xmember
-ej22t shortblock
-eg20g/k heads, matching IM (wiring harness, ecu?)
-440cc injectors
-wrx fuel pump
-td05 turbo
-delta camshaft grind (unsure of what grind yet)
- ???

Questions:

(1)will i need fuel rails?, side feed or top feed?
(2) can i run off stock internals to reach my whp goal? if not, what are good internals?
(3) i'm assuming i'm going to need the ecu matching the heads and IM, will i need the entire wiring harness from them too?
(4)^im hearing good about robtune, would a greddy emanage ultimate be a sufficient EM to use for that?
(5) what else do i need to know?

anything from that mess of info anyone would recommend?

[chuckthefuk]

Your info / sources have you confused .

You want to stay OBDII but you want to use a pre-OBDII ecu + tune + IM + wiring.. Robtune is for OBDI ECUs that require a physical rom chip to be programmed vs "flashing" a EEPROM.

250 whp is actually possible however "college student" and "$300 per part budget" is not an ideal combo.

So here goes my take on your questions..

(1) Depends on the heads / IM you choose
--> you mentioned EJ20G/K heads which are OBDI
--> 440+ cc are fine for starting off with
(2) The stock EJ22T internals are decent but the age and condition is well.. iffy.
(3) Yes and No. You can rewire sensors to function with other ECU's but keep things simple you should match.
(4) Your best bet is to gather a USDM WRX 02-03 EJ205 heads + IM + engine wiring harness + ECU.
--> this way you can merge the harness .. approx 30-40 wires.
--> retain OBDII
--> your choice of tuning options.. COBB Access Port, ECUtek, OpenSource Tactrix. via the OBDII port :-D
(4 continued)
--> Using a standalone or super-piggy back like the Greddy eDamage :-D will work but require some know how from the tuner and are not as easy as some other options.
--> with a college student budget this sounds a little ambitious .. lots of research and real life price quotes are needed so you can see the big picture.
--> there are still little things like the turbo manifold + uppipe + down pipe + intercooler + boost solenoid (controller) + larger radiator .. and so on.
--> going with a DOHC setup vs SOHC requires 2 extra cams so to save money you don't really need to get delta cams ... they are nice but only need for top end .
-Chuck

[couchfuzzy]

Your info / sources have you confused .

Robtune is for OBDI ECUs that require a physical rom chip to be programmed vs "flashing" a EEPROM.

--> you mentioned EJ20G/K heads which are OBDI



ahh, thank you, i did not know this, i was thinking this whole time that they were obd2..

after a couple more hours of reading on it i think im just going to throw it up for sale, and just go with a wrx swap, seems a bit cheaper from the start and a lot less headache

[chuckthefuk]

cool beans. good luck with your goals.
-Chuck

[fireman2101]

I have a 91 ss with the ej22t with 223whp and 260wtq and I spent $900 on parts. That's including a td05-16g, tmic, robtune ecu, injectors and what else I needed. It can be done. You just have to be patient and find good deals.

[chuckthefuk]

But you are still obd1. Original post wants to retain obdii

[fireman2101]

But you are still obd1. Original post wants to retain obdii

Oops missed that part. Who needs that whole user "friendly" tuning. Lol

[chuckthefuk]

Apparently the new emissikns test for post 96 is only obdii code check and no sniffer . so pffft to all of this .

[couchfuzzy]

ive been scoffed at so many times for mentioning how my 95 is obd2, pointed right at the plug to the emissions guy and he still refused...

[chuckthefuk]

Majority of the auto industry doesn't understand that some manufacturers started testing OBDII in 94-ish.. Some manufacturers even used OBD1.5 ..

Anyways 96' was the official forced date for OBDII requirements. So yes I have also had the awkward conversation where you challenge and win but still loose all at the same time :-(

Haters gana hate.

Oh and couchfuzzy the main point about cost and big picture with the O.P. is that hes using a non-turbo chassis so wiring merger is needed. EJ22T is a fantastic yet ancient motor. Pros and Cons ... Like most with the SS line .. eventually you upgrade your heads and flow flow flow.

[couchfuzzy]

i am O.P., haha

i'd like to get the legacy just running since thats the one thats already modded and fun to drive around.. im stuck with the fozzy til then... :/

[chuckthefuk]

So confused .. Damn smart phones.

[Granny]

I wouldn't use 2.5 heads. 2.0 or 2.2 are best because over sized heads will go through gaskets. I go through too many head gaskets with the 2.5 heads I was running on my 2.2 but then again I was running more power than you want.

[couchfuzzy]

^are you talking about a n/a, high compression build?

or was that a turbo build?

[EJ22D]

I wouldn't use 2.5 heads. 2.0 or 2.2 are best because over sized heads will go through gaskets. I go through too many head gaskets with the 2.5 heads I was running on my 2.2 but then again I was running more power than you want.

97-99 EJ25D heads are not even close to oversized on a 22T block.
They are actually quite perfect, as though they were made & designed for an EJ22.
I am running a 95 22E w/25D heads & have been doing so since last July.
No gasket problems at all but then, my head gaskets are VERY tough units & will never blow, even under forced induction up to about 22psi.

The cheapest & reliable way to make a DOHC EJ22T requires the following:
EJ22T short block.
EJ25D heads (97-99) drilled & tapped for turbo oil & coolant lines.
EJ20K/20R cams as they will fit in USDM 25D heads (97-99).
EJ turbo & exhaust manifold to accommodate the turbo.
EJ22T fuel injectors.

You can even run a 22E shortblock between those 25D heads & have a nice little powerhouse. It's up to you & your needs for the engine.

[lord flashheart]

Personally i dont like the 20k/25D heads on a 22T shortblock...the compression is dizmal.
Like 6.5-7:1 which you can make up for with boost but relying on a turbo to make all your power in a in efficent way if making power..
I personally like the 25d heads on a na 22. The 25d has good overlap which means good blowdown... Ie great spool characteristics.
25d heads are fantastic for mid range power but still do ok untill about 6k.

[EJ22D]

Personally i dont like the 20k/25D heads on a 22T shortblock...the compression is dizmal.
Like 6.5-7:1 which you can make up for with boost but relying on a turbo to make all your power in a in efficent way if making power..
I personally like the 25d heads on a na 22. The 25d has good overlap which means good blowdown... Ie great spool characteristics.
25d heads are fantastic for mid range power but still do ok untill about 6k.

I agree with everything that you've said, especially about 22T the 25D heads on a 22E (I am running that in N/A right now with a CR @ 9.4:1.).
Midrange power is excellent with a loss of low end TQ (if you're a patient driver, then this doesn't matter).
The 25D heads drop power VERY close to redline, which is about 6.4/6.5k rpm but if you're worried about top end, 20K or 20R cams will solve that problem with a sacrifice to low end but in the end, tuning will determine the end powerband.

[lord flashheart]

Word.