Which swap would be better for me?

[MR.MCSICK]

Ok, i have a 2 options and alot of time to decide. My 99 L will someday get a new engine(naturally). Im not trying to build a race car or anything just a little more oomph than the good ol' 2.2 can dish out. Wiring is not an issue really since i dont have a life and mainly sit with the wife doing nothing. A wrx swap is a very cool idea but those engines really arent the cheapest and arent the easiest to find either. What about a older EJ22t? I can get one with 56k for around $750. Any ideas of pros and cons of each? I know this question has been asked a million times before but I dont get too much time to reseach. thanks alot.

Adam

[Reason]

You should go with the EJ22T. I hear nothing but good things. Bulletproof block in other words. I plan on that or building my EJ25 up. Go for the EJ22T dude...

[legacy92ej22t]

The EJ22T is definitely a great motor, that's why I have two! Hehehe. Really though, the hardest part for you would be the wiring. You'll be going from an OBD-II setup in your '99 to an OBD-I setup with the EJ22T unless you do SEM.

Some states have laws against putting an engine in that's older then the car too, so keep that in mind.

[Tris_STi]

FWIW, I think the EJ22T is a harder block to find.
EJ20s/EJ20ts can be found on a street corner in the right neighborhoods.
And $750 for that block is the deal of a lifetime. ESPECIALLY with only 56k miles on it. Snatch it up, quick, God wants you to have that engine. :D

[jey]

If you have a lot of time on your hands you could put together a hybrid like what I'm driving :)

[MR.MCSICK]

Whats all involved in a hybrid swap? Ive heard of it but Im not sure what Im going to need. The more I think about it, the more Id like to keep the car N/A. But Im sure Ill change my mind. Its just a matter of reliability. As an alumni of the turbocharger headache club (aka DSM owner) I know what a pain they can be to keep reliable.

[Tris_STi]

Okay, then you know the saying:

Cheap, fast, reliable, pick two.

DSMs, unfortunately, are where that comes from. It also comes from people who turbo an NA block and wonder wtf happened when things don't run anymore.. If you're gonna go turbo, get a block that was built to handle boost. Otherwise, keep it NA. Also remember turbos require high-octane gas. I don't know about you, but I like cheap gas prices, and filling up with premium everytime, on an engine that probably doesn't get good mileage to begin with (turbo and good mileage aren't hand-in-hand, ya know) doesn't sound like a very good plan to me. Weigh your options, seriously.

NA builds are coming back, though, now that everyone's going FI.. seems there are more purists than I thought.

[MR.MCSICK]

Due to the fact that western PA has probably some of the worst emission regulations, I have been forced to forgot the EJ22t swap. It is not legal here to put an older engine in a newer vehicle. That leaves a WRX swap. Thats pretty lame if you ask me but Im really considering the EJ25 N/A buildup. I certainly dont want a 227hp Legacy though it would be cool as hell. I just want a little more power. I could care less about street racing a bunch of honda fags. I just want to get to work...faster. So....An EJ25 in a Legacy L....Do any of you know if Im getting into a spaghetti mess of wires or is it more of a straight forward swap?

[Tris_STi]

I think it's pretty straightforward, but someone may want to correct me. You'll need the ECU(for the 2.5), of course, and if you have an auto, you may also need the TCU.

..which brings me to my next point, the transmission: Your AT (if you have one) is only really prepared to handle the 2.2l. I believe the 2.5 trannies are just a tad beefier, to handle the extra power. With that in mind, you can make all the power you want, but at some point, something in your tranny may give out. Just something to consider.

[gator gt]

From what I understand, an N/A to N/A (in terms of 2.2 and 2.5) are pretty easily swappable. You do need the ECU that is meant for driving what ever motor you choose, as previously mentioned.

While you are looking at a motor swap (potentially larger displacement) why not consider the swap to a hydraulic (2.5) manual tranny. A lot more fun for the car!

On the note of N/A, unless you dump a load of cash into the setup, starting off with a EJ30 is your best bet. Then mod from there. You'll start with something that was designed for more power from the start and will begin at a higher benchmark to boot.

I'm personally looking to turbo. There is a limit to the N/A range of power....well, its directly related to the $$$ you want to spend. So is turbo, but there is more bang for the buck. And there are limited resources for building up Subaru N/A vs. the vast resources out there for a Subaru FI.

While gas prices are up, and a turbo is less efficient, you don't always have to be on boost....although it is fun. If you have a lot of highway mileage (like me) then putting the car on cruise and keeping off boost will help out quite a bit...considering I'll be dropping .5 liters too. Mind you, not close to N/A less powered cars (I average 24/28 mpg) but the high should be in that range and the lows in the high teens.

Hey, its not SUV guzzling quality....so the GreenPeace won't be charging at your door anytime soon.

HTH,
GGT

[Tris_STi]

Gator, I don't think we can get EJ30s here.. the 3.0 Outbacks are EZ engine code, and have oil leak problems. EJ30s are JDM parts..

[Wiscon_Mark]

I think he meant EJ20. He's pretty technical and would probably know that.

[gator gt]

Actually I was under the (maybe misinformed impression ???) that the EZ was the designation for the EZ33 (in the SVX).

Under that same impression, I thought that all current engine configurations (US and worldwide) were under the EJ nameplate. EJ20t, EJ25, EJ25t, EJ30.

And no, I wouldn't have meant EJ20 for an N/A starting point,...although thanks for the 'technical' support Mark.

He'd be better off starting with an EJ25 for the displacement and inherent torque. Starting off with an EJ20 (I don't think they're N/A in the US) wouldn't get him very far. Why do you think all the EJ20t WRX boys are looking to swap to the USDM STi EJ25t shortblock...for the low-end grunt.

I'll have to look into that to make sure I'm clear on it.

GGT



EDIT: Well, I must say, I stand corrected. Not that I've looked into the 6's all that much.

The 6 cylinders don't even touch the 'J' in the EJ. They are designated by EZ30D (US H6 1 port exhaust/head motors), EZ30R (JDM H6 3 port exhaust/head motors) or the EG33 for the SVX (Alcyone, in JDM speak).

There you have it.

Tris & Mark, thank you for bringing it up.

GGT

[Disturbed_beast]

Well that's what i have is an EJ20T engine becuase i didn't have the money and the car would have sat in my lawn for another six months until i had the money for ea EJ25 but, and the SVX wouldn't fit into the Legacy very well it would be very tight, it's tight with a WRX engine

[gator gt]

You think thats tight...you should see a EZ30 STUFFED into a GC Impreza!!! Talk about relative sizes.....that huge motor in the smallest subaru offered over here. You best have STi motor mounts or you'll bang into something in that engine bay when you rev! I saw pictures of one someplace.....it was being prepped as a rally car. There's a car that'll alter course conditions in one pass!!

Which EJ25 were you saving up for? the STi shortblock?

Please....you're better off with the 2.0L for gas reasons. The 2.5 is such a hog in turbo form.

Don't shun the EJ205t (US WRX), its a great starting point. EJ207t (JDM WRX STi) is better, but thats for another thread!

[SC00BS]

I had these same decisions to make with my car the STi motor(EJ20T) or the 2.5L, I went with the STi motor for a number of reasons but 1 of the main reasons was because I like my motors to rev hard. Yes the 2.5L motor has an abundance of torque but they just don't rev as hard as an EJ20T

[Wiscon_Mark]

You mean they don't rev as high (RPMs) as the 2.0L or what? (what's the redline on a EJ20TT?

[SC00BS]

Spot on Mark. My new motor which is being rebuilt will still have the stock internals and will rev to 8500rpm. Most other EJ20's will rev to around 7500 maybe 8000rpm. The 2.5L motors over here redline at around 7000

[Wiscon_Mark]

Really? Oh, the STi block (2.5 turbo) over here takes up to 8000 RPMs, so I was thinking you were going upwards of 9k there :shock: But 8500 is still pretty high. Good luck on that swap, btw :D

[SC00BS]

A lot of guys guys are doing the US EJ257 conversion right now, but a lot haven't been too reliable

[Wiscon_Mark]

Must be a hard one to swap then, because the WRX STi vehicles have been fairly good (according to consumer reports) the last few years.

[SC00BS]

The conversion is easy, I think the guys just give them a real hard time