Is TCS ruining Subarus AWD capabilities!?

[Subafreak]

Interesting discovery at work today. Had a customer come in with a video of her 2013 Impressa Sport stuck half in a snow drift on the side of the road. In the video there is only one front tire spinning as they are trying to get it unstuck, when they do get it out heading down a hill, the front wheels appear to be locked up and the rears roll freely and she says the brakes were not being applied!

Now this customer has been a bit of a pain in the ass, but so far most of her complaints I have been able to recreate, but this time I thought for sure she was crazy!

So anyway I take the car out into the unplowed field, come to a stop and try to take off. The traction control starts to go crazy braking the wheels and redistributing power to no availe. The tires dig themselves into a hole. Now this is a CVT car so attempting to rock it out of the hole along with the hindrance of the traction control was all but impossible!

Now Subaru does provide a TCS off switch......it doesn't really shut it off at all! I don't even know why they bothered! So after a few times of spinning tires trying to get out the holes the TCS deactivated to prevent the brakes from over heating.....it throws a bunch of lights on on the dash, but at least now I can try to unstick it without big brother getting in the way rite?......

Wrong! When this happens it also disengages the rear wheels......umm....are you serious!?
It's no longer an AWD car!?......yes!

So now I'm stuck there like a damn Civic in a snow storm! I try to turn the ignition off and back on....still no AWD! I let it sit and cool for like an hour.....still no AWD!

About another hour later I enlist the help of a coworker to retrieve the car, he hopps in a 2012 Legacy Outback and I grab the tow chain. Oh yeah.....no tow hooks anymore! Pop the covers out of the bumpers and install tow hooks.......Throw the still FWD impressa in reverse and he hits the gas on the Outback.......and where are we going?......no where! The Outback starts clicking and wheel breaking away, randomly spinning what ever tires it thinks are appropriate.

It's not working......in fear that we are gonna end up with two FWD Subarus stuck in the feild I take the Outback back to the lot to grab my 2000 GT. I back up, I hook up, I tug three times and drag that impressa all the way back to the lot, even when he said he had the brakes locked up because I was going to fast! Lol.

So.......what kinda crap is this? Seriously!?

I gotta tell a new Subaru customer that her AWD car becomes a useless FWD when you really need it the most!?........not to thrilled about it!

[GTDrifter]

Damn, guess I won't be getting a new Subaru for a while

[LunchBox04V]

Worst part, it's government mandated. They HAVE to have some sort of TCS. I was looking at getting a new Impreza for fuel and longevity, or getting something older that I could tune. I went with the later. I asked the salesman (back in 2012) about it and he said even with the TCS turned off, it automatically comes on over 25 mph. I didn't know the FWD only part. That's just sad. Thanks Uncle Sam.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Well, your GT has a viscous LSD in the rear, which is better (but more expensive and not mandated).

As for the rest, I can't explain the FWD issue, but I've driven a '10 Legacy CVT (with TCS) and it's quite good in the really bad snow, so I'm not really sure what to tell you. Given my understanding of the way the system is supposed to aid the AWD system is that it brakes the spinning wheel, allowing the wheel with traction to dig in. I don't imagine this is as good as LSDs on the front and rear, but I've never even owned a Subaru with anything but open diffs (aside from the center of course) and they're still very good.

[Subafreak]

Well as far as I know nobody knows about the FWD thing. I attempted to call techline about it but they were closed today.

The TCS is a very good system, and provides great control for people who don't know what countersteer is. Also provides logic to the whole wheels that slip to the wheels that grip ploy. It just doesn't allow people to get unstuck the old fashion way or at all for that matter.

I don't have a problem with it being in the cars, it should jist be disengaugable when you want to turn it off.

[Grafton]

I always chuckle at the TCS on my wife's 2010 Impreza, when I slide out of our driveway i can hear it brake the rear outside wheel.

also what tires where on the cars/ how deep was the snow?

I got my STi stuck in my driveway for a while because of the summer tires.

[Subafreak]

To be fair the impessa had lame all seasons on it and my GT had bad ass snow tires. Lol.

I also discovered today that the 2014 impressa sport will not go into the fail safe mode, it will jist shut off the TCS for a wile to let it cool. It took me longer to get it stuck and even once it was seemly hopelessly stuck I was eventually able to get it out under it's own power.

There may have been a logic change in the TCU after they realized how bad there fail safe was.

[Muse]

That... what? that is pretty stupid. In my experience, AWD is all the traction control you should ever need in a car with a moderate amount of power. I could understand having it in something with STi levels of power, (But then again, you shouldn't be buying a car like that unless you know how to drive it. But that's another argument entirely.) but a fairly pedestrian car like the ones previously mentioned? No need for it.

[jjay03]

I tried to turn the tcs off on my forester also but it doesnt really turn off all the way like said. It still did pretty good though in the snow. My moms 2014 forester also does well in the snow. Next year I plan to get some snow tires for my 98GT and try it out. It doesnt do too great with the cheap all seasons but still much better than fwd.

[chevyman1968]

Hmmm this is really interesting. I personally am not a fan of the CVT transmissions and my friend is a salesman at a Subie dealership and we go back in forth all the time about it. This doesn't help my opinion of it. My car was beast this year with bald tires and open diffs, but I do have a 5 speed so I have a little more control over my wheel spin. New tires fixed that though.

[Wiscon_Mark]

It's not like the CVT lacks that control - you can control "gears" with the paddle shifters if you want to engine brake or decrease torque starting off, although you lack clutch control like you would on a manual. I'll reiterate - the 2010 Legacy CVT I drove for a week in the snow was fantastic with Michelin Xice tires. I think the stock tires just blow. It would be great to turn the TCS all the way off if you want, but we do have to remember we're in the extreme minority as enthusiasts.

[Grafton]

out of the different Subaru "auto" transmissions I've driven (4EAT, 5EAT, & CVT) I love the CVT, it doesn't have the really annoying automatic issues I hate: lack of engine braking and jumping gears when you do minor throttle adjustments. I honestly wouldn't buy another traditional automatic from Subaru because of how much I like the CVT.