Thom's 97 BD 2.2GT - Frankemotor lives - 9/7/15

[Reason]

You should also do a timing belt kit w a water pump, rear main seal, clutch kit, possibly a lightweight flywheel, snout repair kit. I think I listed all this stuff I did when I did mine.

[Thomistopheles]

Already has act lightweight flywheel and new clutch, timing, wp, everything but the snout kit. I'll add the rear main

[Alucard]

You plan on porting the intake and installing more aggressive cams and a piggyback? EJ25E's almost always have short operation spans because they can't breathe well for the power they're expected to make, and they're always run hard for the needed work is done.

[Reason]

Here's a partial list I had in my MR1 thread
IDLER PULLEY (2)
ADJUSTER ASSEMBLY & BELT TENSIONER
REAR MAIN SEAL
O RINGS
CAM SEALS
CRANK SEAL & LOWER SLING
TIMING BELT
GATES WATER PUMP ASSEMBLY & GASKET
COVER OIL SEPARATOR KIT with bolts
VALVE COVER GASKET KIT (both sides and six grommets)

[Thomistopheles]

You plan on porting the intake and installing more aggressive cams and a piggyback? EJ25E's almost always have short operation spans because they can't breathe well for the power they're expected to make, and they're always run hard for the needed work is done.Heads are getting worked over, I know the 22E heads are pretty asthmatic. I plan on cams, but they'll need to go in later. Budget doesn't allow for them right now... planned on taking a few months to build this thing but now I'm on more of a two week timeframe.

Going to start porting everything today after I get the motor out of the parts impreza. Just has one power steering pump bolt, mounts, and a piece of paracord holding it in there, lol. The series of trades continues, with the steelies off this parts car getting me cash + powder coating for all my motor parts. Color scheme will be black block, silver heads, black rocker covers, black intake mani, black belt covers and misc brackets.


Here's a partial list I had in my MR1 thread
IDLER PULLEY (2)
ADJUSTER ASSEMBLY & BELT TENSIONER
REAR MAIN SEAL
O RINGS
CAM SEALS
CRANK SEAL & LOWER SLING
TIMING BELT
GATES WATER PUMP ASSEMBLY & GASKET
COVER OIL SEPARATOR KIT with bolts
VALVE COVER GASKET KIT (both sides and six grommets)Sounds like I've got everything then. Ordered all the OEM parts from my local subaru dealer, the couple things they didn't have in stock will be here Tuesday. Going to order the head gaskets Monday. Parts should be back from powder in about a week... the anticipation is killing me, lol

No garage, no pavement, pouring rain? No problem.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/11954590_10205025577865584_7449389434155-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/11798116_10153532111543126_175674909_n_z-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/11801912_10153532111548126_878905406_n_z-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/11936987_10205023737379573_1327644095_n_-1.jpg

[Alucard]

Heads are getting worked over, I know the 22E heads are pretty asthmatic. I plan on cams, but they'll need to go in later. Budget doesn't allow for them right now... planned on taking a few months to build this thing but now I'm on more of a two week timeframe.

You're looking at a 12:1 compression ratio, should you go with head gaskets with EJ251 thickness, and 11.8:1 with EJ25D head gasket thickness. The 25D ECU will not be able to process that safely, even on 93. Do you have a way to tune and pull timing back? You're looking at a potential near-200bhp once you get cams and tune. I drove an L with a tuned cammed EJ22E single port head/1996 EJ25D block combo last year about a week after I left the SL-i meet in RI. Torque for days, but with good power at 5000rpm, too. Once 1,500rpm hits, you're gonna feel it right away. If you get heavy snow where you live, you're going to pull through it like it's not even there.

[86bratman]

You're looking at a 12:1 compression ratio, should you go with head gaskets with EJ251 thickness, and 11.8:1 with EJ25D head gasket thickness. The 25D ECU will not be able to process that safely, even on 93. Do you have a way to tune and pull timing back? You're looking at a potential near-200bhp once you get cams and tune. I drove an L with a tuned cammed EJ22E single port head/1996 EJ25D block combo last year about a week after I left the SL-i meet in RI. Torque for days, but with good power at 5000rpm, too. Once 1,500rpm hits, you're gonna feel it right away. If you get heavy snow where you live, you're going to pull through it like it's not even there.
That is not correct. With ej251 thickness gasket it is 11.3:1 and with the 1.3mm ej25d thickness it is 10.5:1. The only ej25/22e frankenmotor that gets near 12:1 is a 96 shortblock with 22e heads.

[Alucard]

That is not correct. With ej251 thickness gasket it is 11.3:1 and with the 1.3mm ej25d thickness it is 10.5:1. The only ej25/22e frankenmotor that gets near 12:1 is a 96 shortblock with 22e heads.

The ratio calculator gives me those outcomes based on the following:

EJ251 bore and stroke - 99.5mm/75mm.
EJ251 piston cc - 6.
EJ22E head cc - 41.
EJ251 stock head gasket thickness - 1mm.
EJ25D stock head gasket thickness - 1.3mm.

I have no doubt that you're correct. What about the 251 is causing the discrepancy from the 25D other than what is added? Piston height, or maybe a rod height change? I'm a 2.2 specialist, but the 2.5's get hairy from time to time.

[86bratman]

The ej251 piston is actually 10cc dish, which is about enough difference to show the results you came to. The 96 ej25d is a one year only engine, it has 54cc heads only suited for use on an ej25 block as it's combustion chamber is slightly wider than 99mm. It has different pistons to keep the compression ratio at the advertised 9.7:1. Their dish is about 6.5-7cc, also ej25's have a 79mm stroke.

[Alucard]

The ej251 piston is actually 10cc dish, which is about enough difference to show the results you came to. The 96 ej25d is a one year only engine, it has 54cc heads only suited for use on an ej25 block as it's combustion chamber is slightly wider than 99mm. It has different pistons to keep the compression ratio at the advertised 9.7:1. Their dish is about 6.5-7cc, also ej25's have a 79mm stroke.

That makes sense. The piston cc correction yielded the exact same numbers that you posted in your response. Hahaha, you're damn good.

[86bratman]

You also have to factor in the piston's height either above or below deck height. Phase 2 ej25s sit below deck by 0.4mm while phase 1's are above deck by about 0.05mm.


I've also been building subaru engines for quite a few years on the side, most of the common combinations I can calculate in my head without batting an eye lol.

[Reason]

Do you need a lightweight crank pulley?

[Thomistopheles]

Do you need a lightweight crank pulley?I have a Perrin LWCP already on my current motor, I'll be swapping that and the ACT LWFW over when the new one goes in.

SO, update time! That motor from the parts car? Toast. Looks like it was run with more coolant than oil... so much coolant in the oil that it was getting piped out through the PCV system into the intake. Lots of metal shavings in the heads, cams were way out of spec and the journals were heavily scored. I traded Kyle for a set of heads he uses for fabricating single port UEL headers, they're in much better shape. He started porting them yesterday, should be ready to go to the machine shop in a couple days.

I picked up my block today, dropped it off and cleaned it up.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/20150830_212235_zpsemxmugvn-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/20150830_210533_zpsdk6e7pwf-1.jpg

This is what Kyle's calculator gave us, 10.89:1. Are we missing something here?
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/CRcalc_zpscq12h2s5-1.jpg

And another one...
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/08/crcalc2_zpspx9bjpjg-1.jpg

[86bratman]

It's because you have a 1mm head gasket selected, which is right in the middle of ej251 and ej25d thickness.

[Thomistopheles]

Ahhhh, that makes sense. Got confused by Alucard's post listing the 251 gasket as 1mm when it's actually 0.65.

So then...
0.56mm (ej255/7)= 11.5:1
0.65mm (ej251) = 11.38:1
1.0mm (cometic) = 10.9:1
1.3mm (ej25D) = 10.5:1

[86bratman]

I didn't catch that in his post or I would have commented about it too.

[Thomistopheles]

Heads were ported earlier this week, just picked them up from the machine shop after resurfacing and cleaning. Saturday and Sunday will be busy days, that's for sure. Threw some old junk parts on to protect all the machined surfaces and gave the block and oil pan several coats of gloss black while waiting on the heads. Shiiiiiny.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/IMG_5016_zpspuom7wwk-1.jpg

[Thomistopheles]

IT'S ALIIIIIIVE MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Parts weren't back from powder, so we used my old crusty intake mani and rocker covers. Runs like a top, pulls much harder.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/11986535_10205079583135682_7097989924758-1.jpg

[Thomistopheles]

Not pretty for the time being, but it sure as hell works.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/IMG_5023_zpsewwtw6vs-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/IMG_5026_zpsninlbe4k-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/IMG_5025_zpskigwwugf-1.jpg

[foohfooh]

Not pretty for the time being, but it sure as hell works.



i can feel the vtec :blob6:

[CaleDeRoo]

Nice. I still haven't even gotten time to get my second bad block out. :(

[Thomistopheles]

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/20150908_210932_zpsgmbbiwuv-1.jpg
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/09/20150908_215020_zpscf0baeqp-1.jpg

This light bar is just plain silly.

yaaaas

[98legwag]

So much light.