Mushy peddle after two round

[thesavo]

*Pedal

My wife and I bled the brakes in my 04. We did two round. Each time we started the engine afterward and the pedal felt equally mushy each time. More bleeding?

Also is it normal for the rear bleed screws to weep fluid when they're open?

[thesavo]

Third round, I also loosened the master cylinder lines separately to bleed them. That has as much space as a Ford to work with. The pedal still goes to the floor with the engine running. 5th round, engine wouldn't start :-(. FML. What do I do next?

[thesavo]

Bump, any thoughts?

[Hinyo]

There should be no weeping if closed... define weeping a bit better? the system should be firm even without starting the engine. Find where the leak is problem will be fixed. any puddles forming on the ground with brake fluid? How are you choosing to bleed the system? Should not need to loosen the BMC or bleed from the BMC... that can cause more air entering into the system...

[Wiscon_Mark]

Are you opening the valve while depressing (the pedal) and closing while releasing? If not, you can let air into the system.

Yes, the valve should weep fluid while open. Actually, I'd suggest you let the system gravity bleed since you're having so much trouble. The pressure from the fluid in the reservoir will push the fluid (and air) out without reintroducing more air into the system. Just make sure you don't let the reservoir get too low, or you'll get a bunch more air in there. It takes patience (and time) so I'd do it while you're doing something else that doesn't require a lot of uninterrupted time.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Also, the DIY forums are not for questions. I moved this to the Wheels, Tires, & Brakes forum.

[thesavo]

Weeping, I would define as brake fluid leaking out from the threads of the bleed screws while they're open.

Also, during a gravity bleed do you leave the master cylinder cap on while the bleed screw is open? Can all four be open at once?

[dodik]

why would you open all four at once?
You do them one by one, generally you start from furthest one away, not sure what your legacy actual sequence is but try this, pass rear, driver rear, pass front then driver front.
To do this you'll need fresh brake fluid, container for old brake fluid, small piece of 1/4" clear tubing and 8mm open end wrench plus a second person.

remove wheel, connect tube to the nipple on the caliper the other end of the tube drop into the container, have a little bit of fluid in the container so that when pedal is released it doesnt suck air back into the system if the bleeder is not closed.
Now make sure there is plenty of fluid in the master, open bleed screw slowly and have the second person press the brake pedal, once the pedal hits the floor the helper should say "FLOOR" and hold the pedal at this time you close the bleeder, they release the pedal, repeat until you do not see any air bubbles in the clear tube that is connected to the bleeder and/or clean brake fluid is coming out. While doing this make sure your master never runs dry or you will get air in the system.
repeat on all four wheels. no need to run the engine at any point.

[thesavo]

Stupid question. Does the cap get placed on master while bleeding?
Also, I don't have my assistant tonight. So I'll do the gravity bleed.

[dodik]

no, cap doesn't need to be on,
have you looked on youtube for one person brake bleed, its pretty straight forward

[thesavo]

OK thanks for the clarification. I have seen a couple, however they didn't seem like reliable presenters. Also is the slit in the cap rubber normal?


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2014/10/IMG_20141002_175327_844_zpsw9qel7th-1.jpg (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/thesavo/media/IMG_20141002_175327_844_zpsw9qel7th.jpg.html)

[thesavo]

Well. The pedal didn't feel much better after the last bleed. However, with the wheels back on it does feel a bit better than it did the last time I drove it.

[thesavo]

While just driving around, the stopping distance isn't that horrible. However in an emergency stop, they do feel like there's room for improvement. My wife took it for a drive and tried some differ stops. Also the pedal does travel further than I would like before the vehicle slows down. Letting off on the brake does let the vehicle roll sooner than you would expect.

I made a discovery this evening. After changing the differential fluids and power steering fluid. With the wheels off the ground, the driver's front wheel seems hung up.


Legacy stuck wheel.: http://youtu.be/hl2oTJGWu-U

[thesavo]

So I clamped off all 4 brake hose nearest to the hard-line fitting. The Brake pedal firmed up so much it stopped after the BOO switch. I then took off each one, measured the pedal depression distance, then replaced the clamp.

The driver's side was the worse, 2

I read on many boards that that ten years is about the acceptable service life.

[thesavo]

I'm currently replacing my driver front brake hose. Problem: the copper crush washers are stuck to the banjo bolt and the caliper. I tried swiping it off with a slotted screw driver. It feels like I'm carving it away :-/. Is there a proper technique for getting the cu washer off of the caliper and banjo bolt?

[thesavo]

I got the old crush washers removed from the caliper and banjo bolt. I found another use for my dental pick set. Too bad that wheel still sticks after braking.

[thesavo]

I got the front passenger brake hose replaced. Along with the rear passenger caliper hose. The mid hose, was a bit of a problem. I broke my 10 mm flare-nut wrench. :'( the forward end broke free OK. The hose clips don't do anything to hold the fitting while you try to break 10 years of torque, corrosion, snow-belt salt and grit. I used penitrating oil like the others. I managed to remove the mounting and grab the flat sides of the fitting with a 17 mm open-end.

[thesavo]

Similar problems on driver side rear hoses. I picked up a warranty replacement line wrench and a butane torch.
I got all three driver-side flare nuts loose as prep for tomorrow. For the sake of future readers, I un clipped each fitting from base clip, then loosened the flare nut mounts.

[ctbrighton]

for any compression or flare fitting, it is best to tighten the fitting a little before trying to loosen it.

[thesavo]

for any compression or flare fitting, it is best to tighten the fitting a little before trying to loosen it.
I had heard that in general for weathered fasteners, but not for line nuts. I have broken off the heads some fasteners that way. However it was not a terrible problem. I have been leary of trying it with line fasteners.

Tonight, my goal is to replace the final passenger-side hose, using the three new techniques, and revised HFT line wrench.
For those keeping track, it's the mid or jounce hose as I have recently seen it called.
Then I'll replace the pair of driver-side rear hoses. All-in-all if the pedal still fades while the vehicle is in Park, I'll have to take it to a shop. I have lubed the slides and ensured they don't bind. I have replaced the front caliper brackets, and successfully compressed all the Pistons. I have bled the system 8 ways from Monday . I have performed the Mc pedal test and booster test.

[thesavo]

Sit-rep: all six hoses replaced. Brakes seem to be no better. With it up on "blocks", wheels removed and placed into gear, only the front passenger corner spins free. The Drivers front struggles. Opening the bleed screw doesn't help. The rear seem to struggle and twitch. It seems once the rear wheels stop, they give up until I change gear.

I'm going to Syracuse to help my parents out. The Legacy stays behind. No salvage yard for me on this trip.

[thesavo]

This is what I mean by weeping when screws are open.


https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2014/10/IMG_20141017_190922_759_zps0go13boz-1.jpg (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/thesavo/media/Legacy_misc/IMG_20141017_190922_759_zps0go13boz.jpg.html)


All the calipers do this when open. Could this be letting air in?
When diving, the brake pedal does stiffer when pumped, however they are still not great.

Sent.from Tapa talk. Because SEO.

[thesavo]

What tests are left?

Sent from Tapa talk. Because SEO.

[thesavo]

So the left front and left rear calipers are sticking. This I have determined from watching them spin in-gear and wheels off. Could this really still be bad bleeding? I pulled off the rear caliper, pulled it apart and reassembled. New piston seals are not available locally. I lubed with brake fluid and Syl-Glide according to http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/Le ... E%20BR.pdf (http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/Legacy%20Outback/2004/2004%20USDM/7.%20Chassis%20Section/11.%20BRAKE%20BR.pdf).

The rear one is still sticking, my guess is that sticking calipers are due to a swollen seal? Thoughts?