Rule discussion

[nepbug]

This forum is the most click-heavy one I am a part of already too. If I make a mod to my journal, I have to click and update so many things before I am compliant with the rules (some moderator's personal preferences really).

[rkrenicki]

This forum is the most click-heavy one I am a part of already too. If I make a mod to my journal, I have to click and update so many things before I am compliant with the rules (some moderator's personal preferences really).

I do not understand exactly what the issue is here. MR Thread rules have not changed in a very long time, and I do not understand what "so many things" you need to click on to follow said rules.

[nepbug]

Ah, thanks, I didn't notice that PM button. My point was if you don't have notifications clicking there allows you to access your inbox, but if you have a notification the inbox option isn't there. Not a big deal now that I actually see the PM link.

The MR stuff and other is the same, yes. My point is that with the revamp there is an opportunity to make it more efficient and user friendly. Seriously, sit there and think if you are making some tasks more difficult than they need to be.

I feel like the community would be larger if the MR rules were less restrictive. I personally almost left the forum entirely when my thread was locked for 2 weeks because I didn't have the date in the title. Seriously, every other thing I had, and there are MR threads that are way out of "compliance" and have no repercussions. I was just the new guy, so hammer on him. The moderator said the others would be getting locked, no surprise, that never happened. This is an opportunity to change the feel and mindset of the forum, make it more user friendly and you'll grow the community and make it a better experience for all.

Here's a screen shot of the first page of MR1, my thread and one other are the only ones with titles in compliance with the rules.
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/02/AG4zC2Apng-1.jpg

I know that was a bit of a rant on stuff that is not a bug of the new system, but something to think about while the forum is being tweaked. Free up people to personalize their personal mod journal, you can leave the current rules in as recommended formatting.

[rkrenicki]

Ah, thanks, I didn't notice that PM button. My point was if you don't have notifications clicking there allows you to access your inbox, but if you have a notification the inbox option isn't there. Not a big deal now that I actually see the PM link.

This whole system works exactly the same as any other vBulletin based forum, which includes a variety of automotive forums such as Dirty Impreza and all of the AutoGuide sites such as SubaruForester.org.

As for the rest of your post, I will defer to Reason to address those concerns. This conversation will likely be forked off into its own thread, as I want to keep this thread as clutter-free as I can keep it.

[Reason]

I'll look over the rules and consider some changes. But these rules have been in place for years. I'm on other non Subaru forums with crazy rules and they seem to be fine.

I don't think an extra click, or having to put and updated date in a thread is keeping this forum down. We are part of a small market, combined with laziness are the key contributors (if any) to lack of participation.

These rules are in place for the members. Not for moderators enjoyment. We think about what would help inform people, help search quicker and some things that may be excessive may be just because I want them that way.

I will listen to everything you have to say. I will talk it over with the staff and we will figure out if it will better the forum.

[nepbug]

This search (which I am working on making a quick link at the top), will indicate if threads have unread replies by being bold. That seems to be the exact same functionality as the old system, except it isn't a button at the top (yet).


That sounds like the functionality I was referring to, I hope it gets implemented.



I do not understand exactly what the issue is here. MR Thread rules have not changed in a very long time, and I do not understand what "so many things" you need to click on to follow said rules.


Ok, when I update my MR thread I have to:
-Write the updated post (most other forums, this is the only step)
-Now click back to the first post of the thread
-Click edit on first post
-Update Mod list in first post
-Update date and description of latest mod in title of post (btw, this task is impossible in tapatalk, so it's not a mobile-user-friendly requirement, and, in the old forum at least, there was a limit in the number of characters in the title, thus you can run into issues)
-Submit first post thread

Normally I would have run away from this forum for my build thread with those rules, but it is actually very similar to the way I lay out my build threads already (less the title editing, see my DI and SF build threads and you'll see I lay out the first post(s) similarly). So, I'm actually totally on-board for this style, but I also think it is a bit restrictive to guys that want a different format, and just doesn't play well with mobile. Also one of the unique things about build threads is a lot of guys come up with creative names for their cars, the rules prohibit that being part of the title here, a bit disappointing.

To clarify, I am not against the forum change in any way, I think the update is good, even if I don't understand this level and points clutter under the user names.

[nepbug]

Oh and just one other quick note for the moderators to discuss, thread locking etiquette.

About two weeks into my journal it was locked (by Airgne I believe). I received no PM or any other form of explanation as to why. I had to "report" my first post of my journal to get any sort of response, and it didn't really tell me why it was locked. I asked if it was because of the date being missing from the title and I got a vague answer back and was told that threads were going to be locked at a fast pace now to pull everyone into compliance with the "rules". Wow, look at all those locked down rule-breaking threads. ;)

So, that lack of good communication and the fact that the PM conversation with that moderator has now mysteriously been deleted from my PM box has me question some of the actions of moderators and realize just how much you are just subject to their whims.

If you were trying to frighten the new guy, well done, I now save every one of my posts in a folder on my hard drive so that if I get locked like that again I can transition to another forum without having to recreate my content.

IMO, the MR rules are fine suggestions as to how to format your journal. With random enforcement it's frustrating, with full enforcement it will be time-consuming for the moderators

Lastly, I'm truly not trying to "stir the pot" here, just spark some conversation. Doing things a certain way just because "that's the way it's always been done" doesn't mean it can't be improved.

[nepbug]

That is weird that the thread ID incremented by one after I copied the link.. but the idea was to let you know where this conversation is to continue. Since you have found the thread, I have deleted the posts related to it from the bug thread to keep the clutter down.

Thanks, and I had thought of a bug I ran across while typing my last post, but forgot already. Oh well, it will come to me again I'm sure.

[Airgne]

So first us a dmb pc and not mobile. The rules are easy to follow its just out a lazness people dont follow them. Lastly when you got locked i wazon a ship in the middle of the ocean with shit internet.

[nepbug]

So first us a dmb pc and not mobile.
Not a good strategy in this day and age.


The rules are easy to follow its just out a lazness people dont follow them.
You sure on that? I think the fact that people are actually modding and documenting it in some form is a sign that they are not all that lazy. Oh, and how did your motivation to start enforcing the rules and locking everyone else's thread go? People in glass houses...


Lastly when you got locked i wazon a ship in the middle of the ocean with shit internet.
Sounds like a great time to start locking threads!

[Airgne]

This going to no place. I can be a real ass but I dont do that anymore. I lock around five threads ever couple months to ensure tje rules are looked at again. Im sorry you had to wait two weeks for me to reply. This really is not that big of a deal you are makeing out to be.

[nepbug]

This going to no place. I can be a real ass but I dont do that anymore. I lock around five threads ever couple months to ensure tje rules are looked at again. Im sorry you had to wait two weeks for me to reply. This really is not that big of a deal you are makeing out to be.

So, am I to take this as that you are not willing to make any changes? You have the final say, so it doesn't matter if anyone else has any suggestions? Is it only going no place because of your unwillingness to consider an alternative?

I though rkenicki created this thread to have a discussion. I'm trying to spark discussion, but you come in, make one post, I respond and leave the door open for you to further clarify and defend your points, and then you just conclude that it isn't going anywhere?

If the only way to have a discussion about the rules is for you to "be a real ass", by all means, go ahead, I would like to see how that changes your responses.

Finally, thanks for brushing my concerns/suggestion off to the side. Don't worry, at this rate you won't have to deal with this pesky nepbug guy much longer.

[Reason]

I'm locking this thread until I can get the time to read it. If anyone has a problem with the rules on the forum pm me.

[amgarrety]

I don't want to get involved here, but I do want to state that your concerns and suggestions aren't being brushed to the side. This is a new forum software that we are also learning (in addition to everyone else), and admittedly, not all of the rules are updated for the new forum software. This is coming from the person who is trying to re-write the overall forum rules. There are things we have to get feedback on before we change the rules. So your feedback hasn't been disregarded. There is a lot of discussion that needs to happen among the staff before any rule changes occur due to the number of people it affects.

I agree with your point about mobile usage. Im pretty sure 95% of my own browsing is from my iPhone. The problem is the software we are currently running (vB4) isn't a perfect solution for mobile devices, and the 3rd party apps such as tapatalk don't do the job for some people as well. The software we hope to someday upgrade to is a little better, but we do have to work with what we have now. Whether or not we can change some of those things to make mobile browsing easier is a different story, but again, it isn't going without a discussion among the staff.

I don't want to see this get into an argument. We've asked for feedback, including usage patterns and user preferences, and we are taking that feedback and trying to turn it into a usable experience. That doesn't mean everything will be implemented, but we are certainly looking at other websites that use this software to see how they solved some problems, and we know not all of them can be solved. So please bare with us while we figure it out.

Regarding the rules, again, everything is under re-evaluation. There is no promise anything will be changed, but we are waiting for all the feedback we can get before we decide which rules are no longer relevant and which rules we need to enforce more with this new system.

[Reason]

Ok, so before this get crazy, nobody should be going after the mods other than being directly disrespected by one. All mods enforce the rules, even if they don't agree with them. Keep in mind, that the staff are volunteers. They do this thing on their own time. Airgne is at sea for on and off periods at a time. And he finds time to squeeze in some moderating duties. When anyone one of us are on, we don't have time to go through each and every thread. We spot things, we let each other know of issue's and some members give us a heads up. We do as much as we can. With what little time we have. Some people fall victim to these time restrictions.

If you feel like you are being targeted for being a new guy I apologize, that's not the case. But new accounts stick out like a sore thumb and probably do get scrutinized more.

We are always open to new ideas and changes. But like I say to the rest of the staff, it must be beneficial for the forum so convince me.

Arguing won't sole anything for anyone. We all have to keep a cool head to get anything resolved.

[nepbug]

I'm truly not trying to just be argumentative/troll in this thread.

If any moderator wants to lay out the reasoning behind the MR rules I would appreciate it, because as I know it, it is just a moderator's personal preference until I hear otherwise. What is the logic behind the rules, and is it still relevant logic?

[Airgne]

I apologize for my short answers as I was doing my car inspection on my new Laurel.
The logic for the rules in members ride is to help people search for the latest on a car. There are 4 simple rules to follow. The 5th one is for you the member. I do not think it is hard or to much to do. It only takes but five min to make your mod list and update your thread header. I just do not see the issue. I can see that you got upset due to the auto lock and two week wait for a reply. Once again this was an accident. I will talk to Reason about rule changes, if necessary we will make changes as necessary.

[hansvonaxion]

Personally I don't really see the need for thread title change - the date and most recent mod - but maybe that's just because of the way I browse.

That point seems to be the most time consuming also.

[nepbug]

Ok, specific things for the moderators to discuss:

Thread locking etiquette.
Should it just be locked without warning?
Should it be locked and then a PM sent to the originator stating why?

MR Rules
*Title changes - Is this necessary now? Does it actually help with searching
*First post rules - Is the format necessary as a rule or will a suggestion be sufficient? Does having the ability to search a thread change any of the requirements? Should some be suggestions and some rules?
*Do a quick survey of the MR threads, how many are in compliance with current rules? Is it hurting the forum? Has it made it more difficult to search or follow those threads? Is the large amount of threads out-of-compliance with the rules an indication of what rules forum members think are value added? I'd suggest keeping the rules that everyone seems to comply with on a consistent basis and make the others optional, the data's there, you might not need to have big debates on what is best for the forum.

[Reason]

Yes most rules enforced are done so without warning. Rules on a forum should be read. It's as simple as that. Do you join and participate in any club without knowing the rules and regulations? Do you join a gun club and start shooting shit? Do you just post away on a forum one way because you do it on another? I'm part of forums that you have to reach a post limit of xx amount of posts and then write a letter to a mod to express your interest to post in classifieds. Another one has a password that changes weekly, and you have to pretty much read the rules again to retrieve it each week (which gives me an idea for our classifieds).

You are right, you aren't lazy for making the effort to go through the steps to comply to the rules and I thank you for it. Those are the rules that are in place. They have been explained already by different mods. They will stay that way until I am convinced that they need to be changed.

[nepbug]

Yes most rules enforced are done so without warning. Rules on a forum should be read. It's as simple as that. Do you join and participate in any club without knowing the rules and regulations? Do you join a gun club and start shooting shit? Do you just post away on a forum one way because you do it on another? I'm part of forums that you have to reach a post limit of xx amount of posts and then write a letter to a mod to express your interest to post in classifieds. Another one has a password that changes weekly, and you have to pretty much read the rules again to retrieve it each week (which gives me an idea for our classifieds).

You are right, you aren't lazy for making the effort to go through the steps to comply to the rules and I thank you for it. Those are the rules that are in place. They have been explained already by different mods. They will stay that way until I am convinced that they need to be changed.

In my situation, the frustrating thing was that I had read the rules at least 3 times prior to starting my MR thread. It was obvious as I had all required formatting other than a date in the title. Which I admit that I knew that was part of the rules, but a) seemed redundant as a thread gets bumped up and has dates attached to each post and b) 95% of the MR threads didn't comply to that.

So there I was, thread locked for a minor formatting rule violation and other MR threads marched along with that same violation and many more without any action taken against them. I was truly confused as to why my thread was locked. Was it the date? No, can't be, all the other threads would be locked. Check my PM box to see if there is any explanation? Nope, nothing there. Report posts and PM moderators to figure it out...crickets.

Ok, you want more convincing that rules want to change, but I can't come off argumentative. I'm guessing my previous points were not enough. Here's a data point:

A quick survey of the MR1 front page shows 30 unique journals. 20 of those are not in compliant with the date rule, an mine wouldn't be if I wasn't concerned about getting locked again.

[Reason]

Again, we do what we can with what little time we have. This forum isn't a full time job. Instead of beating a dead horse, if you want to help, maybe you can help out by either telling us or the members in violation how to comply with the rules.

[nepbug]

Again, we do what we can with what little time we have. This forum isn't a full time job. Instead of beating a dead horse, if you want to help, maybe you can help out by either telling us or the members in violation how to comply with the rules.

I'll offer another solution. If a rule is too time-consuming to enforce and the majority of members don't feel it value-added enough to comply with it, get rid of that rule.

Not having a rule to update the thread title with each new mod will save both forum members and moderators time.

[Reason]

You are right, I'm make sure everyone is in compliance with the rules and I'll lock them all if not. At this point everyone will be on the same page. Thank you for your input.

[nepbug]

You are right, I'm make sure everyone is in compliance with the rules and I'll lock them all if not. At this point everyone will be on the same page. Thank you for your input.

Ok, you have the freedom to dig in and not implement my suggested changes. The mass locking of threads should make people aware of a lot of things and we should get more conversation in this thread.

And now we wait. I apologize to anyone coming to this thread after having their thread locked. My intent was not to get a bunch of threads locked, it was to change the rules to prevent that very thing.

[amgarrety]

We've stated that the rules are under review by the staff. I'm not sure what else I can tell you. We're under absolutely no obligation to change any rules. The fact that we are reviewing them means we do take feedback, but do not expect an immediate change, because you will not get it. The staff isn't in total agreement over what the rules should be at this time, and we will not update the rules until we reach an agreement.

The rules are concrete, but the staff's enforcement of those rules is not. There are rules we enforce strongly, and there are others we do not. Likewise, there are moderators who enforce rules strongly, and there are those who do not. None of the moderators can catch every little rule violation, so we often let the small ones go, but that does not mean you are exempt from being punished for breaking those rules. They are still rules. So you are very correct when you say other users have nobody to blame but you, because no one but yourself has challenged our enforcement of those rules. We do the best we can, but this is not our full time job. As Reason stated, we are all volunteers, and we devote what time we can. We can't possibly enforce every single rule. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be followed. Every other user breaking the rules faces the same risks.

I understand, your thread was locked without any notification for two weeks. We realize that recording and notifying of moderator actions that directly affect users is something we need to do. You have a valid point when you say you should have been notified. You were not exempt from the rules though.

At the end of the day, forums operate under direction of the staff. We can write and enforce the rules how we decide. Your complaint is about a rule affecting user experience. It's not forum breaking, and it isn't hurting how people interact. It is simply "causing too many clicks". That is a personal preference thing, which I'm sure you're not the only user who experiences that, but we aren't going to change the rules immediately because it causes too many clicks. We will discuss the importance and usefulness of our rules, and we will decide from there.

The very bottom line here is that we are in a position to choose the rules because we take a long time to assess how those rules will affect the forum. When the rules are set, they are the rules. The only people with the power to choose how the rules are enforced are the staff. (Bolded because that is an important statement for any forum you interact with). You're not obligated to agree with our rules. Thats fine. But you must follow them if you want to stay out of trouble. You have the freedom to not use this forum based on the rules we enforce, but we reserve complete authority to write those rules how we see fit.

So I state again, the rules are under review, and will continue to be until we reach an agreement. That is the best I can offer.

[Reason]

Your complaint was your thread was locked while many others weren't. Also you didn't receive a message for the reason. I'm going to make it fair, isn't that what started this discussion? Why do you feel the need to apologize to the members here who don't comply to the rules? We are lacking in our duties and you are right, and will correct that.

[nepbug]

Ok, geez I've posted a lot in this thread the last two days and my reasons/points are still not getting across straight, dang internet, this would be much easier over a beer.

My complaint is not that I was locked and others weren't. I brought that up because it was a point of confusion as to why mine was locked. I thought I laid out my complaints pretty well in post 19 of this thread, but I can be even more pointed.
1) If a thread is locked, a post should be made in it explaining why and/or a PM sent to the thread originator stating why.
2) The MR thread title rules should be lifted and made into suggestions. It's not mobile-friendly and requires more time. Sure, it may only take "5 minutes", but hey, that's 5 minutes I can spend working on the car or playing with my kids.

The point was made that the rules are not "hurting how people interact", but that's not true if threads are being locked for format issues. Lock a thread if there is offensive content, illegal doings, etc, that is a good reason, stopping communication because there isn't a date in the title is just silly in comparison.

Also, forgive me for thinking that the review process was over. I figured with Airgne posting warnings in member's MR threads (a courtesy that is an improvement, yay!) and with Reason saying he would start locking threads (post 24), that the decision was made to keep things the same and enforce more. It seems odd to drastically increase enforcement if you are possibly reversing it in the near future.

[Airgne]

No you are not understanding it! They are simple to follow those rules. We will discuss behind the rules behind the scenes, until then this will not move further.

[Reason]

I gave you explanations and so has Airgne and amgarrety. We have told you why those rules are in place. We also told you why you didn't receive a PM and why other members threads didn't get attention.

Also amgarrety said all the rules are under review because we are updating the entire board. He also explained to you we are not obligated to change them.

We hear what you are saying, and your point did get across, but you feel it's not because we don't necessarily agree with you.

You may think we are moderators on other forums and just doing shit just because. We plan and hash things out. We constantly toss ideas back and forth with each other, either in our forum, PM's, text, facebook, skype, Xbox or a phone call. 90% of the time that the mods talk to each other, it's about the forum. And I'm in daily contact (if not every other day) with rkrenicki, amgarrety, deadsilvia and chuck.

We are not about to start changing rules to suggestions because one person voices an opinion about too many clicks. But you do get heard and it's put into discussion. I'll tell you this, if we weren't in rules review, this would have been brushed away real quick.

[nepbug]

Also amgarrety said all the rules are under review because we are updating the entire board. He also explained to you we are not obligated to change them.

We hear what you are saying, and your point did get across, but you feel it's not because we don't necessarily agree with you.


The following quote (my bold for emphasis) is why I felt my point is not getting across, you explicitly stated something that was not my point, I was merely clarifying my complaints/views, yet again. I'm not whining about fairness. I don't care if you don't agree with me either, but it would be nice if you would present your counterpoint to my points. (i.e. how does the title changes help search, why is the rule considered good if the majority of members aren't following it, how does the majority of members not following the title change rule adversely affect the way the forum runs/people interact, etc...) I'm not against you guys, I have the same goal as the rest of you, make the forum a better experience for all and encourage growth.


Your complaint was your thread was locked while many others weren't. Also you didn't receive a message for the reason. I'm going to make it fair, isn't that what started this discussion? Why do you feel the need to apologize to the members here who don't comply to the rules? We are lacking in our duties and you are right, and will correct that.

Thank you for unlocking this thread again, it will give others a chance to chime in if the feel inclined. I know you think I am a voice of one here, but the data (that I have already pointed out) suggests that I am not the only one that thinks the title change rule is not value-added.

I'll cut way back in posting this thread now so others have a chance to talk if they want and to keep airgne's head from exploding and save him some clicks by preventing him from locking this thread again (since apparently I am so focused on how many clicks it takes to do things).

Even if no changes come of all of this, at least I and the rest of the forum have received a glimpse as to how the background of SL-i is run.

[Airgne]

Man this is crazy. I locked so I had time to discuss with Reason, than I unlocked it again for people to talk more. We do not have to explain a rule to make you happy. It is super easy to do, just yesterday I found one not in compliance. I posted in his thread to read the rules. He did it with ease and no complaints. To me this just means to me that it is easy to fix and comply with these 4 simple rules.

[amgarrety]

Even if no changes come of all of this, at least I and the rest of the forum have received a glimpse as to how the background of SL-i is run.

We've been very transparent with our process. As of now, the rules are that your thread will get locked if you don't follow the rules. The rules are enforced to varying degrees. We are in the process of reviewing the rules, to which there may be no change. There is no secret to how we run this website. This is all very public information that is made available in many places on this site, including multiple times in this thread.

[meepers]

This is a good discussion. I will throw in my 2 cents. 95% of my browsing and posting is done mobile. Either with my Galaxy phone, or my Ipad at home. The only actual PC I use is at work. I agree on both sides of the line with the mods and nepbug. I like having the last update date in the heading. It would be nice if that date was auto populated when you update the first post. It makes it easy to scan through. However, with that being said.... I also hate having to take the extra time of logging on from a computer if I make changes, and my Ipad absolutely HATES this forum. I have spent hours working on a post only to have it not go through when I hit submit. But... when it comes to searching the forum, I nearly EXCLUSIVELY use the "recent posts" tab, and prior to that loved the "unanswered posts" tab. It made it very easy to see what was/is new and browse quickly if someone had a question that I may have been able to answer.

Tapatalk sucks in my opinion, and I hate using it. But then again, sometimes I do not like change when I feel things just worked prior. I applaud the moderators for making this one of the better subi forums on the net.

I have been on this forum for a long time. I like it here, and for the most part, this place is filled with good, knowledgeable, helping people unlike several of the other forums I use... I do however wish there were more of us here. If we could pull the good people from N...c or r..5 or l......t .. I think this could be hands down the best resource out there.

And I am guilty as well, sometimes I dont read/follow the rules.. When I started my MR thread, it was just because I had some free time, and I threw a post together. I did go back and reformat, and my thread was not locked. I also think I caught my own mistake after all was said and done. The old saying, it's easier to catch flies with honey" goes a long way. I am all for rule enforcement, I am also in favor of rule review and changing when needed. My outlook is this, if you have 2 minutes to review and lock a thread, take the extra 30 seconds to shoot a PM. Sometimes things are just an oversight and don't require an iron fist.

[Reason]

Even if no changes come of all of this, at least I and the rest of the forum have received a glimpse as to how the background of SL-i is run.

What does this means?

You don't have to agree with what we say or do, you are right. But to continue saying we aren't getting your point, isn't going to change the fact that we got your point, but we don't agree with it. At that point, it's pointless to continue your demands of explanations why the rules are what they are.

Idk how long we have been at this, but it feels like days. And with my very few available time to put into the forum, I have to repeat myself over and over again.

I don't know what you expect, but as I see it, this subject has passed the amount of time needed for what it's worth.

[Wiscon_Mark]

As Reason said, rules are up for discussion, by the admin & mod team.

You can certainly offer up suggestions, but don't get angry when we give you a "we'll get back to you" because we all have to have the discussion ourselves. Remember that there are a bunch of us, in many different timezones, with busy lives that all need to get involved, so it can take some time to come to decisions about some things (and sometimes Reason just says "here's how it's going to be" and that's it, lol). This is a free forum with very little advertising and a staff of volunteers. Please try to keep that in mind when you complain about the rules & the way things are enforced - we do aim for a uniform "voice" with how we moderate, but it just isn't 100% possible.

[lord flashheart]

sometimes Reason just says "here's how it's going to be" and that's it.

I think I see what's going on here.





https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2015/03/1ba0cf3fad737abda57f78e4d9a70904-1.jpg

..Dont bam me.

[Reason]

It is what it is lol

[subyroo]

I'm part of forums that you have to reach a post limit of xx amount of posts and then write a letter to a mod to express your interest to post in classifieds. Another one has a password that changes weekly, and you have to pretty much read the rules again to retrieve it each week (which gives me an idea for our classifieds).

I hope to hell this Forum never sees restrictions anywhere near like those above, I'd be out of here at the speed of a raped ape. :cry:
I know I don't contribute much to this Forum, but I do visit here everyday and browse the New Posts. :iconbiggrin:

[Reason]

There's also one that has a noob forum, and it has 5 noob forums where you can ask all the same questions like will these wheels fit? Can I get 200hp with this ebay chip? Etc Once you have so many post, them you can post anywhere else on the forum.

[lord flashheart]

That would be a good idea. I never know where to ask these sorts of questions.