WHAT THE HELL

[GrassyKnoll]

This really put me over the edge.

After my stubbornness for a very long time, I finally brought my car into the stealership to have some key services done on it. I asked them to take a look at my acceleration problem, grind down or replace the front rotors, and to check an exhaust leak. At the end of the day they called and I returned to pick up my car.

They said they were unable to replicate the acceleration problem but they fixed the exhaust leak and replaced the two front rotors (for the bargain figure of $400... but that's besides the point). So, I get out of the dealership, and head down to pick up some groceries. After I get back in my car from buying some chicken and steak, I start it as usual. I throw it into gear, and the car starts moving by itself (with my foot still on the clutch). Startled, I hit the breaks. I shifted between gears a few times and thought it was some fluke thing. I exited the parking lot.

When I got about half a mile down the road I stopped a traffic light. When the light turn green, I put my foot on the clutch, shifted into first, and before I even took my foot off the clutch, the car stalled. I started it up again, threw it into first, and continued down the road. At this point I knew there was a problem, and I angrily returned to the Subaru dealer. It was 5:40 and I ran in (they close at 5:30) and asked them to take a look at the clutch problem. The head mechanic jumped in the car, bombed around the parking lot in about 15 seconds, jumped out and said "oh, your carpet mat was just underneath the clutch". Against my better judgement, I agreed, thanked him, and headed home.

~many moons pass~

The next day (yesterday) I woke up and jumped in my car, hoping yesterday events were all a dream. The car started fine, I went to shift it into gear (with the clutch down of course) but the car wont slide into gear. It was as if the clutch wasnt down at all. I couldn't shove it into any foreward gear, and when I tried to put it in reverse, it just started grinding. It is apparent that my pushing of the clutch is doing nothing to disengage the engine. The clutch feels completely fine and my quick check of the car revealed no apparent problems.

WHAT DID SUBARU DO?!?! They didn't do any servicing to the clutch, the clutch is almost brand new, and I have NEVER had any sort of clutch problems before. Now they are telling me Tuesday is the closest time they can schedule me an appointment and I cant even get my car rolling to get it to the gerage. I am going to have to get it towed unless I can fix the damn problem myself!

Does anyone have any ideas what this could be? I am planning on trying to get the dealership to cover service and towing costs. Does this sound reasonable? What course of action should I take? Sorry for the long post, but I am getting quite angry over this problem.

Thanks Guys

[Reason]

Your first problem was you brought it to Subaru. I hate to say it be Subaru dealerships suck, shit all dealerships suck. I always have some sort of issue with my car when it comes back from any Subaru dealer around here. Theres two things you can do. 1 don't ever bring your car there again, 2 go down there and make a scene in front of customers. Makes sure you have a good argument. My farther did that when I first got my car it was great. They told me when I turn the car is suppose to make a crunching sound :roll: in the end, they change the front axles and got a car wash :smile:

[blackgtbeauty]

Your first problem was you brought it to Subaru. I hate to say it be Subaru dealerships suck, crap all dealerships suck. I always have some sort of issue with my car when it comes back from any Subaru dealer around here. Theres two things you can do. 1 don't ever bring your car there again, 2 go down there and make a scene in front of customers. Makes sure you have a good argument. My farther did that when I first got my car it was great. They told me when I turn the car is suppose to make a crunching sound :roll: in the end, they change the front axles and got a car wash :smile:

shane's right. they're giving you this needless run-around making YOU look like a fool so you need to throw it back their way. they need to EARN your money, and with this they see it as an easy buck, which is wrong.

After you left they probably were poking fun saying "Haha, this guy thought his clutch was bad but it was just his floor mat! Hahaha!"

so you need to turn that around and make them look stupid.

yeah, i hate stealerships too. good luck man.

Rob

[SHOfast]

This sounds like an un-related issue. Check the clutch linkages. Check the clutch fluid and see if it low or leaking anywhere. What you are describing sounds very much like air in the clutch line or a bad master or slave cylinder.

If you cannot see any area that looks like it was tampered with you are going to have a hard time getting the dealer to fit the bill. It sounds very much to me like it is unrealated and was going to happen anyway, unless there are signs that some body messed with it.

[GrassyKnoll]

This sounds like an un-related issue. Check the clutch linkages. Check the clutch fluid and see if it low or leaking anywhere. What you are describing sounds very much like air in the clutch line or a bad master or slave cylinder.

If you cannot see any area that looks like it was tampered with you are going to have a hard time getting the dealer to fit the bill. It sounds very much to me like it is unrealated and was going to happen anyway, unless there are signs that some body messed with it.

I think it is probly unrelated too... i don't see how it could be related cause they didn't do anything relating to the clutch. Linkages seem fine and everything feels normal when i press the clutch. How do I check fluids?

[GrassyKnoll]

Clutch fluid seems fine. I tried to check the lines but I really don't know what I am looking for. Can someone possibly try to give me a clue as to what I am checking for?

Thanks

[blackgtbeauty]

This sounds like an un-related issue. Check the clutch linkages. Check the clutch fluid and see if it low or leaking anywhere. What you are describing sounds very much like air in the clutch line or a bad master or slave cylinder.

If you cannot see any area that looks like it was tampered with you are going to have a hard time getting the dealer to fit the bill. It sounds very much to me like it is unrealated and was going to happen anyway, unless there are signs that some body messed with it.

but i thought they were looking for problems in general? like this one, no?

[GrassyKnoll]

nope. they were just doing a few things i needed done.

[Plays_with_Toys]

If you pump the clutch a few times will it go in to gear? It could be unrelated, but they obviously took it for a drive trying to diagnose an acceleration problem, so a poor driver could've nuked the clutch trying to launch hard a few times or something. I'd definately take it back and demand they fix whatever they broke because it never exhibited these problems before you took it in. Did they write on your service sheet number of miles driven at time car was brought in and when it left? Most places around here do that. See how far they went and ask how they diagnosed that there was no acceleration problem.

[GrassyKnoll]

My appointment was scheduled for 8 am tomorrow. I am going to call them at 8 AM and ask them if they would liek to chose their own towing service since they will be paying. Plus, my mom just bought a new Forester XT from them so that should be good leverage.

PLUS: I had the clutch and a new flywheel installed BY THEM just over 4 months ago. So they have little to argue with.

Wish me luck;.

[Superu264]

Take no prisoners tomorrow :smt066

(I feel kinda weird about wanting you to take down a Subaru dealer, but then I just remind myself they're car salesmen)

[96legwag]

Grassy - today was d-day, right? How did you make out. Sometimes the best course of action is to let the people that did the repair sort of determine themselves that it could have been caused by them. The end result usually is better, unfortunately, they are usually holding the cards in this sort of affair. If it doesn't work out with them, try to find a local independant guy that specializes in Subarus - there is usually a good chance he will do whatever it takes to steal the business away from the dealer. We have a couple around here, almost everywhere does. Hope it went ok.

[GrassyKnoll]

they pulled it all apart. my insurance covered the towing cost. They think the clutch (4 months old > SPEC stage 2 race clutch) complely failed. I am talking with the people from SPEC and the Subaru people are probably going to rip it apart tomorrow to find out exactly what happened. SPEC seems to be on board with covering repair cost though... those things certainly are supposed to last longer then 4 months... (a few thousand miles).

[Plays_with_Toys]

Just curious, how much was said clutch, and was it ordered through the dealer? I need to do my clutch soon and am trying to get as much info before I pony up.

[GrassyKnoll]

i think it was about 300. I bought it from ultrarev.com

[GrassyKnoll]

so clutch was completely fried. The clutch blew then fused itself to the flywheel. I am currently talking with SPEC to see if they will cover any replacement.

[GrassyKnoll]

Just heard back from the SPEC guy. He said he is sorry for the invonvinience and sending me out fresh parts tomorrow. Guess the only cost I am stuck with is installation (I got the towing covered by insurance).

[AussieDan]

So what exactly failed on the clutch?

[GrassyKnoll]

I will find out today I think :)

[SHOfast]

Sorry to hear you are going to need to eat that install cost again.

That is my biggest argument for not bringing my own parts for a shop to install. Sometimes the parts supplier has covered some labor charge, but rarely and only from what I think are the best companies.

Let us know what exactly gave up.

[GrassyKnoll]

http://www.bffilms.com/images/clutch/

There are the pics I got the parts today.... I guess Ill just wait to see what SPEC has to say.

[BAC5.2]

Good, get the SPEC clutch, then immediately sell it and buy an Exedy Stage 1.

Spec clutches are junk.

I've seen them blow springs out of the hubs, and I've seen them lose rivets.

Why did you get a Stage 2 clutch anyways? That's a hurtin on your tranny.

[novacivic]

looks to me like you have been riding the clutch alot by the blueing of the pressure plate and flywheel. In another thread I saw you were bragging about being able to spin all four tires. are you stupid or something because that is exactly why your clutch failed. Next thing that is going to break by doing that is the trans. Didn't it ever cross your mind that the beating the shit out of your car is why it broke. Oh yeah and i also saw your "drifting videos" don't you think that falls under the catagory of abuse, also I was not impressed because anybody can slide a car in the snow. For future reference if your are going to abuse your car thats fine just be prepared to have to pay when you break it and not try and blame it on some one else.

[Wiscon_Mark]

looks to me like you have been riding the clutch alot by the blueing of the pressure plate and flywheel. In another thread I saw you were bragging about being able to spin all four tires. are you stupid or something because that is exactly why your clutch failed. Next thing that is going to break by doing that is the trans. Didn't it ever cross your mind that the beating the crap out of your car is why it broke. Oh yeah and i also saw your "drifting videos" don't you think that falls under the catagory of abuse, also I was not impressed because anybody can slide a car in the snow. For future reference if your are going to abuse your car thats fine just be prepared to have to pay when you break it and not try and blame it on some one else.

While you make a valid point, can you cool off a little?

Thanks.

I really don't see how snow drifting is such a terrible thing, unless of course you hit something...it's not like it's really stressful on the car.

[GrassyKnoll]

You obviously don't know the situation or what you are talking about. You certainly don't know how I drive and I don't appreciate you making judgements on it.

Everyone knows how to abuse and break a car. And I know how to drive. How bout some info on your Legacy or introduction before criticizing other members of the community, especially without knowing the history or situation.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Well, that was a much better reply than the first time, GK ;)

GK didn't mention that his 4 wheel spin was not on this clutch, and you should realize that a pretty much stock EJ25 really can't do much to a stage 2 clutch.

[novacivic]

well i don't have a legacy but my girlfriend drives a 1996 impreza l 2.2 awd 5spd and I have a 1992 ealge talon awd, 2000 civic si supercharged and fully built by me, and a 2005 STI.

[GrassyKnoll]

So I did some calculations. Overall the situation worked out okay. Since SPEC is replacing their clutch and the Subaru flywheel... I won't have to pay for parts. They are also covering the shipping. However, I will still end up having to pay Subaru's labor charge and I won't get my car back till the 28th. I leave for college ths 1st which leaves me only 3 days left to drive the Leggy :cry:

[GrassyKnoll]

So I heard back from clutch... turns out the clutch failed because of my overheating problem that I had last winter. A mixture of coolant and oil found its way onto the clutch which caused it to fail so quickly. They are providing me with new parts for $300... which retail for $700 but still kind of dissapointing. After the new parts + labor from Subaru its gonna be over $1g. Oh well... last time I ever buy parts from them.

[Wiscon_Mark]

coolant and oil in the clutch? :smt104

Sounds like a good excuse not to pay full price on their warranty :smt012

[Huffer]

So basically, there was muck on the clutch face from when they replaced the headgaskets?

[GrassyKnoll]

I don't know the whole situation has me quite upset. But I am leaving town next week and I don't have the time to haggle over it. I need to get rid of the car ASAP. SPEC lost business from me in the future so thats their own bad.

[Huffer]

can't see how it's SPEC's fault if there are fluids on the clutch plate - whoever installed it is at fault.

[GrassyKnoll]

do you think I should mention somethign to Subaru? What should I say?

[blackgtbeauty]

i would go there, kick some ass and take a few names. this is such a bunch of crap that you've had to go through because everyone is just pointing fingers at each other it is SOMEONES fault. and from what i read, subaru needs to pay for this, however and whatever you need to do to make them pay for it is up to you.

and my $.02 on snow drifting, it's awesome, and there are plenty worse things for your car than sliding around on some ice and snow, like, RALLYING... you know, what subie's do BEST...

ok, i'm done now.

good luck man,

Rob

[Huffer]

do you think I should mention somethign to Subaru? What should I say?

Did they do the install? Then ask them how it's possible to get coolant and oil on the clutch face.
Ask SPEC that also.

Be honest, don't go in looking for a fight, just answers.

[GrassyKnoll]

do you think I should mention somethign to Subaru? What should I say?

Did they do the install? Then ask them how it's possible to get coolant and oil on the clutch face.
Ask SPEC that also.

Be honest, don't go in looking for a fight, just answers.

yes I plan on it. sounds like a good solution to me. I don't see how SPECs at fault. I asked them how that could happen and they said they have no ideas. So I guess this one's on the stealership.

Well, last time I take my car there. Last time my mom takes her car there / buys cars there. Last time my dad takes his car there. They fucked up and I don't intend on letting it go. :evil:

[scottatexeter]

"yes I plan on it. sounds like a good solution to me. I don't see how SPECs at fault. I asked them how that could happen and they said they have no ideas. So I guess this one's on the stealership.

Well, last time I take my car there. Last time my mom takes her car there / buys cars there. Last time my dad takes his car there. They fucked up and I don't intend on letting it go."

Jack: Here is a little hint about something. Before you go around slamming others, be sure to remember who was driving your car, and how. Yes, we did replace your clutch, with your supplied parts. I see you didn't mention WHO replaced the headgaskets on your car after someone else asked. Were the headgaskets replaced after the clutch job? We do stand behind our work. If we make a mistake, we will own up to it and take responsibility. If you are now empowered to speak for your mother, and where she chooses to do business, that's fine. Just check with her first. Somehow I don't think she will agree, since we were not the cause of your clutch's demise. I spoke to your mother when she was here the other day, nice lady. I saw your pictures you posted. I also had the opportunity to see the clutch in the failed state. As you recall, the clutch disc was still attached to the flywheel when you came to get the parts. You saw that. We had to pry the disc off the flywheel with a screwdriver. Anyone out there ever seen that? What would cause that? Maybe extreme heat? Possibly a lesser quality clutch or abuse? We installed the clutch over 12,000 miles ago. If it had been our fault, don't you think it would have failed before now? Since you seem determined to blame us and make us responsible for something that we had no control over, perhaps you are right. Perhaps it is time for you to find somewhere else to service your car. Someone new to blame. Someone else to pay for your mishaps. Should your mom and dad decide to follow your lead, that would be too bad. As I said, I met your mother and she is a nice lady. But, I will of course need to hear that from them, not you. Thanks for your time. Scott

[Wiscon_Mark]

Oh no, we've got a dealership rep. on here now. We're all doomed! ;)

It seems like everyone's after your blood, Grassy.

[Huffer]

Scott makes some good points though.

[GrassyKnoll]

Yea he does. I think things are getting blown a little out of proportion... I'm just frustrated cause it seems like I can't get a straight answer from anyone. I agreed with huffer about trying to identify a problem. Now seems like someoen wnats to eat me :razz:

I don't even mind paying for it if its my fault. But someone needs to explain to me what I did wrong and what cause it to happen. an oiled clutch doesn't seem normal. The SPEC guys made it seem like it was clearly the dealerships fault but if its not then explain to me why its not. Im just lookin for an explaination!

[scottatexeter]

I'm not sure how it is they are able to state clearly that there was oil and coolant, especially coolant, on the parts unless they did a chemical analysis on the disc. The parts were obviously dry when you picked them up. For the headgaskets to have gotten the clutch disc wet would be a pretty good stretch. That would indicate you had a geiser under the hood, not just the more common leaking / overheat condition. I agree, something doesn't sound right. The mere fact that the disc had adhered itself to the flywheel sounds like the disc material was breaking down, which obvously it shouldn't, even under heavy stress. I don't know what would cause it to do that. I have seen cars that had tried to traverse water that was just too deep and the disc rusted to the flywheel or pressure plate. I don't think this was the case here. If it was oil from the rear engine seal, that would be obvious, there would be oil everyplace, which there isn't. If the guys at SPEC are so sure we did something wrong, it would be good to hear what they think we did wrong. Maybe we can help set them straight.

[Huffer]

I'm just frustrated cause it seems like I can't get a straight answer from anyone.

That's natural.

As much as I am disappointed by dealerships in general, Scott seems to be on the ball as far as pinpointing a cause.

The SPEC clutch may well have been a faulty item.

[GrassyKnoll]

I'm just frustrated cause it seems like I can't get a straight answer from anyone.

That's natural.

As much as I am disappointed by dealerships in general, Scott seems to be on the ball as far as pinpointing a cause.

The SPEC clutch may well have been a faulty item.

Well I am certainly not purchasing from them again.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I still say SPEC is passing blame. I think they're just trying to be sneaky, blaming it on oil & coolant, knowing that the EJ25 has problems with that...

I agree with Scott.

[GrassyKnoll]

I still say SPEC is passing blame. I think they're just trying to be sneaky, blaming it on oil & coolant, knowing that the EJ25 has problems with that...

I agree with Scott.

Yea that sounds right. I'm trying to get details on the rep from SPEC i dealt with.

[GrassyKnoll]

:roll: I was talking with my mom about the situation today. I told her what the status was and she says, "Ohhh.... You know, I talked to Scott when you had your surgery done. I may not have given you the message" So turns out this whole time I was operating with the understanding that the shop never gave me the full diagnosis of the problem. Turns out they may have told my mom...

Now I think I'm gonna try to get a stock clutch and get my money back from SPEC. I tried calling SPEC back today and they were being extremely unhelpful. Basically > they aren't standing behind their parts. Shitty part, shitty service. I guess I learned my SPEC lesson once and for all on this one.

I'm tellin you, as much as I love the Suby, I'm looking foreward to not having to deal with a car for a while. Maybe some of my money will stay in my pocket...

[novacivic]

good choice on not putting in another spec clutch. They may not give you money just another clutch. My advise would be to sell the replacement if they give you one and put in a stock subaru clutch like you said because they have a 12month waranty on the factory parts.

[GrassyKnoll]

Finally got SPEC to give me money back! Subaru gave a discount on the entire process too. Overall the situation worked itself out. Yes, it cost me about $1k, but I learned an important lesson.

P.S. I do not recommend SPEC to anyone except my ex-gf

[Wiscon_Mark]

P.S. I do not recommend SPEC to anyone except my ex-gf

:lol:

[Huffer]

Finally got SPEC to give me money back! Subaru gave a discount on the entire process too. Overall the situation worked itself out. Yes, it cost me about $1k, but I learned an important lesson.

P.S. I do not recommend SPEC to anyone except my ex-gf

Glad to hear it all worked out.