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ca180
08-05-2006, 09:23 PM
i posted this in another forum, just thought i would ask you guys...

done quite a bit of searching, and found nothin that helped. I'm lookin at buyin a 96 legacy from the dealership i work at. A lady traded it in and said that it felt like the transmission was slipping. I drove it about a quarter of a mile and heard a clunking sound (dont know if that is what she was talking about) but i knew exactly what it was. Front drivers side CV Joint. Got under it and took a look, and sure enought the boot was ripped and the joint was smoked (no pun intended). Well i figured fixing that wouldnt be too bad. But a guy that i werk with said that on subies that with the diff being bolted to the transmission that seal between the two could go bad causing the fluids to mix and ruining the clutch packs ( it is an automatic ). I looked all over the web and found no one complaining of this issue. I really want to get this sweet car, but dont want to be faced with pullin the dogbox out and overhauling it. Sorry for the long post... any advice is greatly appreciated.

oh yeah, its a 96 legacy L AWD with 114000 miles

Huffer
08-05-2006, 11:32 PM
The front diff fluid is the same as the transmission fluid in the automatics.
Dexron III ATF.

Only the rear diff fluid is different (75-90w I think).

PS. it doesn't have dogbox... ;)

Edit. This info should all be in the owners manual.

ca180
08-05-2006, 11:50 PM
well, i call em all dogboxes... i know the difference. newbie here... not to cars. The thing that confused me tho, was that the trans fluid smelled like diff oil. My friend said thats how you could tell. I'm pretty new to awd. Ive done rwd and fwd, not this.... any how. well, thanks a bunch. preciate the help

Huffer
08-06-2006, 11:43 PM
ATF is kinda smelly. Not as bad as rear diff gear oil though.

ca180
08-07-2006, 08:45 AM
Yeah, i work in a shop and gear oil is prolly the crappiest smellin stuff to me... I read in another forum a guy complaining of the same issue. He has an 03 OBS and said he was checkin the trans fluid and the diff fluidand he could swear that they were the same.... but it wasnt trans fluid. He said both were gear oil.... I just really dont want this to become an issue...

Manarius
08-07-2006, 10:00 AM
No, there's none of this mixing business. If the CV breaks, it just breaks, that's it.

ca180
08-07-2006, 10:58 AM
ohh, no.... dont misunderstand... i know the cv joint is separate. That has nothing to do with the fluid... i just stated that to be clearcause the lady said that the trans was goin out. i did see that the cv was shot, thats what i assumed was wrong. Didnt get much of a description other than that. But like i said, my friend said that the fluids would mix, and screw it up. I went and checked it again and realised that there were two dipsticks comin from the trans... didnt know that before. I looked at the trans fluid and it looked good. Still just want to make sure that there is no way for the two fluids to cross.

Huffer
08-07-2006, 11:14 AM
Yeah, i work in a shop and gear oil is prolly the crappiest smellin stuff to me... I read in another forum a guy complaining of the same issue. He has an 03 OBS and said he was checkin the trans fluid and the diff fluidand he could swear that they were the same.... but it wasnt trans fluid. He said both were gear oil.... I just really dont want this to become an issue...

Ask him if he read his owners manual... :|

ca180
08-07-2006, 12:55 PM
haha, very funny.... i dont own the car... i'm lookin at buyin it... just didnt want to have to overhaul or replace the trans... and yes i read the manual, after a iasked the question. Went and looked and found it in the glove box.

Thanks fer the input

Huffer
08-07-2006, 01:23 PM
No worries. Just trying to help. :D

ca180
08-07-2006, 04:44 PM
no hate :-)... thanks fer the help though. I finally got her up on a lift, and... it seems that the rear end is shot. Lot of jerking when driving. Thought it was just a cv up front... saddly i was mistaken. How expensive is a rear on this thing? Any cheap swaps?

SHOfast
08-07-2006, 08:30 PM
You can find the rear diffs on ebay and used fairly cheaply, not more than a few hundred.

A rebuilt, a rebuild or a new unit is going to be pricy.

If you are worried about changing the transmission you should run away from this car right now. Most people do not complain about transmission problems unless they have them.

ca180
08-07-2006, 08:44 PM
lol... yeah, i feel ya... well, i plugged a fuse into the FWD plug and the clunk clunk clink went away. I put her on a lift and got to lookin at her and the drive shaft has quite a bit of play in it. Ive never werked on a scoobie so dont know how much play is normal. They clanking is erratic. My guess was missing teeth from the ring or pinion, but my fellow shop mates here at my dealership said that if it were, then the clanking would be more regular. Pretty much at the same time every time. But this one is kinda jumpy. You cant here a whine, or anything like that, just a bang and the car kinda jumps. Im not afraid of replacing the trans or the rear end, just want to know if i'm gonna be out of a lot of money right off the bat. If i can pin-point the issue, then i'll decide where to go from there... I really do appreciate any and all input from you guys, this is uncharted territory for me.

Huffer
08-08-2006, 09:22 AM
Are these the same guys that told you the front diff could mix with the AT fluid?

ca180
08-08-2006, 01:20 PM
yer.... good call. Well, were a dodge shop, not a subaru shop. And the guy that gives me most of my info is sometimes a know it all, but doesnt really "know it all"...thing about it is that he is twice my age and been werkin on cars most his life... so any advice he gives, i try and take until proven other wise. Even though he may be wrong, he gives me a good direction to start looking, and a better way to give a description to you guys who may have more experience on the subject... i'm not one to call anyone out on false info, if they are honestly tryin to help. Also dont want to make the old guy feel like he's loosin his touch, if ya know what i mean. Its hard on the older techs in the shop when the are constantly wrong. So i just take their advice and run with it. If i find out something different i go about my own way to fix it.

Again, like i said, i dont own this car.... I'm wanting to real bad... I've always wanted a subie, and this is in my price range fer now. If it were mine, i would be able to take stuff apart to look at it, rather than just guess by what i read, hear, or anything else.

So with that said, i still got a jumpy car... And only a little more knowledge on the transmission set up on the beast. And finding one more problem after another... but a like a project... just not a black hole for my money

Huffer
08-08-2006, 01:29 PM
Do you REALLY want an auto though?

The 1st-2nd shift on the autos is usually a snappy one.

What you can do is try draining the fluid, and replacing with Dexron III ATF, and throwing in a bottle of highly recommended Lubegard ATF protectant.

This great little additive smoothed out my 1-2 shift, and it also reconditioned some toasted clutch packs in the AT.

I'm on 20,000miles since I added it, and the AT is going strong. A $5 bottle + $45 worth of Quaker State ATF saved me over $600 in transmission repairs.

ca180
08-08-2006, 01:54 PM
I'll prolly do a drop and fill on the trans... i like to use atf+4 in the older transmissions. The +4 has some additives already in it. Thanks for the advice on the lube guard stuff.

I've read about the rough 1-2 shift, but the problem is constant no matter what gear, and worries me a higher speeds.

I dont really want an auto, but it seems subies are hard to come by round here, especially at a good price. I'm lookin at only payin 700 for this thing cause the used car guys have no idea about cars. If it seems jacked, they let it go cheap, especially when its a high mileage car.

Is there a possibilty that the car could be jumping in and out of awd causin the shudder? I know it has abs, on some cars ive werked on, when the abs sensors start actin up, the car shows its arse... Just throwin ideas out there... need help bad!

Huffer
08-08-2006, 03:59 PM
You can pull the ABS fuse to see if that changes anything.

An electrical reset could clear the TCU memory, which might help smooth out the shifting.

$700 + around $1000 for a rebuilt transmission is still pretty good. It's hard to find a decent Sub for under $4000.

ca180
08-08-2006, 05:21 PM
yeah, this one is in pretty good shape. there is a dent in the pass rear quarter where the door in the wheel well arch meet. The front windshield is cracked. And it needs a good detailing. The only thing i dont like is the grandma green color... that and i see that the front main seal is leaking oil... if i could just work out this drivetrain related issue, i know it would make quite a good car.

I love the sound of the h4, especially with open pipes... and i can get over the auto trans. maybe save up for a 2.5 and manual swap... maybe even trade up for a wrx later... dont know, just really want to werk out this big issue holding up the honda terrorizing progress! lol

SHOfast
08-08-2006, 06:16 PM
I'll prolly do a drop and fill on the trans... i like to use atf+4 in the older transmissions. The +4 has some additives already in it. Thanks for the advice on the lube guard stuff.


Don't do the ATF +4, listen to the guys on here, they know. ATF +3 or +4 is great for DC transmissions, other fluids in some of those and you get problems. Putting ATF +4 into and older DC transmissions can give big problems too, there are TSB's about that kind of stuff.

I have no personal experience on the Subie auto, I don't own one. Missing teeth on the rear diff is not likely your problem, that is major damage. You would get very big grinding popping, no coasting kinds of problems with that. If it isn't just normal or excessive play in the joints I would be looking at the transmission side of things....

Huffer
08-08-2006, 06:46 PM
dont know, just really want to werk out this big issue holding up the honda terrorizing progress! lol

There won't be much Honda terrorizing with a 2.2L auto, unfortunately. at least, not without some twisty roads, good tires and a willing driver.

ca180
08-08-2006, 09:48 PM
yer.... well, high hopes i have... lol... youd be surprised at what kind of car will spank a d16 with 200,000 hard miles on it! those guys drive them in to the ground! (not evryone, no offense to those who have honda's... they are very reliable cars... *disclaimer*)

scottzg
08-09-2006, 05:51 AM
another auto noob--

might be worth looking up 'torque bind' and seeing if that fits the bill.

sounds like a perfect time to stick a 5mt in.

ca180
08-09-2006, 08:57 AM
wtf??? why are you callin me an auto noob?

Huffer
08-09-2006, 09:45 AM
^^ don't mind him. He's pretty blunt.

You might want to do a search on "torque bind" like he says. There are some symptoms that you've described that match torque bind (where the AT transfer clutch packs lock up into 50/50 torque split mode, fulltime.).

In typical operations, the AT torque split is 90/10 (front/rear). Under traction issues, the torque can lock into 50/50 - which can result in a shuddering transmission and difficulty making full-lock, low speed turns (parking turns).

I dodged the bullet by using Lubegard ATF Protectant, which reconditioned my clutch packs and saved my transmission. This is why I swear by it.

to scottzg - instead of calling people who know LESS than you an auto noob, just leave it out. Or put a smiley in or something, kay? :)

ca180
08-09-2006, 11:50 AM
i figure it like this... the number of posts on any forum doesnt in any way show the amount of knowledge i (or anyone else for that matter) have about cars, engines, transmissions, or the rest.

matter of fact, i'm going to school for mechanical engineering, with a minor in aero, soon to be a part of FSAE, and hopefully move on to design the bodies and aerodynamics of TRUE race cars. I'm currently employed full time at a dealership as a mechanic. what i dont know about, i ask questions! Hence the reason i'm on here talkin to you guys who are more familiar with a car i've only seen occasionally.

ok, done venting... I'll try looking up torque bind. It does make sense for that to be the issue. I do appreciate the positive help from you guys. Maybe i'll get somewhere with this soon :|

ca180
08-09-2006, 12:13 PM
HOLY SHRT!!! I read about torque bind, and think i found the problem! The Tires! This things got 196/60/14's up front and 205/70/14's in the rear! To my recollection, there all supposed to be the same... If its been driven like this for a long period of time, you think there is some real permanent damage. havent looked at the owners manual yet, no time right now

Huffer
08-09-2006, 12:33 PM
HOLY SHRT!!! I read about torque bind, and think i found the problem! The Tires! This things got 196/60/14's up front and 205/70/14's in the rear! To my recollection, there all supposed to be the same... If its been driven like this for a long period of time, you think there is some real permanent damage. havent looked at the owners manual yet, no time right now

:shock:
Well, that could definitely be a problem.
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

If it's been driven like that for a lot of miles, the likelihood is that the transfer clutch packs are toast. Could be looking at a complete transmission overhaul, and I would check the entire driveshaft for stress, including the rear diff just to be sure.

I bet the previous owner got really poor mileage too.

ca180
08-09-2006, 01:01 PM
yeah, prolly right... well, my guys up front in the used car dept. said there gonna send it to auction, and if it doesnt pull the kinda money they want then its all mine. jimminy christmas, thats sweet to finger out the prob! hopefully, nothing too serious is jacked. N e how, i'll let you guys know whats up. THANKS A BUNCH

BAC5.2
08-13-2006, 01:44 AM
Scott can be an asshole, but he's right pretty often. Kind of a pisser that it works out like that.

scottzg
08-13-2006, 04:34 AM
Scott can be an asshole, but he's right pretty often. Kind of a pisser that it works out like that.

shove it up your bum. :wink: