4kmpl Legacy BE5 Non turbo Ej201

[Dinka]

My Legacy is really really bad on fuel! Its a Ej201 with a manual 5t transmission No mods other than a straight through exhaust system.

1.All four injectors Cleaned by ultrasonic operation/ Leak tested.
2.Spark plugs cleaned and was told they are good.
2.Intake manifold cleaned inside out
3.All sensors cleaned
4.The cat was removed due to it being broken inside and rattling.
5.its Straight through now. (it was bad on fuel even before this)
Previous Owner was a COCK he has diverted the Engine check light to not turn on but when you plug the Computer there are like 4 errors
The cam position Sensor was unplugged we re pluged that aswell.

Problems Some times it has a Rev hang and some times tries to stall.

[Dinka]

http://imgur.com/o427eRH
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[Dinka]

http://imgur.com/zMCOpko
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New Scan done today (with some live reading results)

[Dinka]

40 Views and not a single reply :/

[Dinka]

Well it doesnt matter if I get help or not maybe some day some one will get some light from this thread the problem was a Fuel pressure regulator bypass port was blocked solid so the fuel pressure was high as hell and dumping fuel ! the Fuel lines had a small leak because of this because of the high pressure I replaced them anyways and the Rear O2 sensor was replaced now to see if the fuel mileage has increased I will run it for a while and see.

[MrSwaggerWagon]

What kind of fuel mileage are we talking? Am I reading the title correctly with 4 km/l? That's not even 10 mpg... I thought my BH with the 4EAT was bad, and I average 18.5 MPG with my city commute. (20 before I was driving up a huge hill to school every day) One mod that is reported to give an improvement is a set of phenolic intake spacers. I plan on getting a set, since 140+ Degrees F intake air temperature can't be ideal.

[Dinka]

What kind of fuel mileage are we talking? Am I reading the title correctly with 4 km/l? That's not even 10 mpg... I thought my BH with the 4EAT was bad, and I average 18.5 MPG with my city commute. (20 before I was driving up a huge hill to school every day) One mod that is reported to give an improvement is a set of phenolic intake spacers. I plan on getting a set, since 140+ Degrees F intake air temperature can't be ideal.

You read right! 4kmpl!

My Legacy is a 01 NA 2L EJ201 5MT Legacy L That I got used and I'm the second owner and it has a fuel economy of a V8 Engine 4kmpl!! Ill tell the history It had some issues about 9 Error Codes Were there when I did the scan and all of them very fixed and no more error codes

Things I replaced and serviced.

1. Fuel Regulator and the Dampers ( The Return line was Blocked and I replaced that as the Pressure was as high as 80psi on the fuel line after that if this was feeding excessive fuel that must have been eliminated now fuel pressure sits at 40psi that is normal.
2.Injectors were Ultrasonic cleaned and checked for leaks and passed.
3.Spark plugs checked and re gapped.
4.Throttle body cleaned inside out.
5.Front and Back O2 sensors replaced.

Only Thing done was I Decat the car because the Cat was already rattling because it was broken inside now it's straight through It has a very bad hesitation on cold starts or if I start the car after parking it for 3 hours it is so bad it sometimes stalls I have to rev it to like 2500 or 3000 to get it out of this slope in my house to the road and it smells like unburnt fuel most of the time! it has very bad low end torque its hesitant to go from a stop light even in 2nd gear it jerks a bit and then starts to go.

I will post these values I got off my Live scanner at idle let me know if they are ok.

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2016/09/TNqZbbq-1.jpg
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https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2016/09/92v5q4Y-1.jpg

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Only Thing done was I Decat the car... and it smells like unburnt fuel most of the time!

What color are your plugs? I bet your engine is running SUPER rich, due to what I will explain in a second. (White tips = lean, golden tips = good, black tips = rich)

Oxygen sensors read the composition of the exhaust gasses and, through some calculations, the ECU can determine the current A/F ratio and adjust the fuel going in to compensate for temperature, humidity, and altitude changes. However, when you have damaged or removed a catalytic converter, it screws with the readings of the sensors, which can make the ECU keep adding fuel... This is my understanding of this (and I may be wrong), but over on the S10 forums, there were people talking about how their gas mileage went to shit after removing their cats. Removing cats only really causes problems in post-'94 vehicles, since that is when many vehicles put their O2 sensors after the cats.

Well, you are smelling the excess fuel that has been injected, but there isn't enough oxygen to burn it all... Really, I would replace the stock cats that you removed. This should, in theory, restore your mileage. With the engine running this rich, Even if it doesn't get your mileage back, you will at least be doing the planet a large favor.

Just to make sure, try to find a shop with equipment to analyze your exhaust gas. You can't trust the reading out of the OBD port, since that is the messed up reading that is throwing the ECU into a fit.

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Those symptoms that you are listing off, the bogging, the engine feeling dead until you rev it up, are dead giveaways of running rich. After spending time tuning the carb of my dirt bike, I went too rich with the jets, and it gave those exact problems, even the smell of fuel. However, after getting some leaner jets, all of those issues went away.

Electronics are wonderful. They can make our lives SO much easier, allowing us to effortlessly make adjustments and even have the car correct itself.
However, Mo' Sensors, Mo' Problems. Once something goes wrong, the whole system gets screwed up. It can even make more problems. Running this rich will foul plugs, clog cats (a nonissue in your case, but still), and potentially mess up O2 sensors. I would start with getting your exhaust analyzed to get an actual A/F ratio. If it is running rich, I would replace the cats, drive it for 25 miles or so for the ECU to retune, and get the exhaust analyzed again. If all of the problems go away, congratulations. If not, I would change plugs, and then, if all else fails, I would look at O2 sensors.

I would still like some input from some more experienced members here. I may work at an auto shop, and worked on cars as I grew up, but I am still learning.

[Dinka]

What color are your plugs? I bet your engine is running SUPER rich, due to what I will explain in a second. (White tips = lean, golden tips = good, black tips = rich)

Oxygen sensors read the composition of the exhaust gasses and, through some calculations, the ECU can determine the current A/F ratio and adjust the fuel going in to compensate for temperature, humidity, and altitude changes. However, when you have damaged or removed a catalytic converter, it screws with the readings of the sensors, which can make the ECU keep adding fuel... This is my understanding of this (and I may be wrong), but over on the S10 forums, there were people talking about how their gas mileage went to shit after removing their cats. Removing cats only really causes problems in post-'94 vehicles, since that is when many vehicles put their O2 sensors after the cats.

Well, you are smelling the excess fuel that has been injected, but there isn't enough oxygen to burn it all... Really, I would replace the stock cats that you removed. This should, in theory, restore your mileage. With the engine running this rich, Even if it doesn't get your mileage back, you will at least be doing the planet a large favor.

Just to make sure, try to find a shop with equipment to analyze your exhaust gas. You can't trust the reading out of the OBD port, since that is the messed up reading that is throwing the ECU into a fit.

Checked the Tips of the Plugs just yesterday they were white! Made me think what the hell was wrong because the all 4 plugs were White on the tip not black but my exhaust tip is black.

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Well I am at a loss as to the plugs, but I would still replace the catalytic converters, as that seems to be the most likely cause of your mileage.

Before you install anything, look for any place nearby that can analyze your exhaust. That should be able to give a definitive answer as to wtf is wrong with your engine. I mean, every fiber in my body is saying that your car is running rich as hell, because of the hesitation and bogging at low RPM, and it smelling like gasoline, and I was reading up on the WRX forums about how this guy deleted his clogged/nearly useless cats, and immediately started getting horrible gas mileage and many of the symptoms you have listed. However, 200 bucks is a lot to drop on a gut feeling (just searched google for "01 Legacy Catalytic Converters"), so a trip to a shop might be a nice check, depending on how much they charge. It isn't like you are asking them to put on the cats, but just to check your exhaust.

Also, I just put headers on my 01 Legacy wagon, and the two bolts that attach the headers to the front cat were a B**** to get off. Well, to clarify, there was a bit of rust on them, but nothing much. I slipped on a 14 mm impact socket and worked my way up from an Impact Driver (screw gun) to a 3/8 pneumatic impact, to a 1/2 electric, to a 1/2 pneumatic... The last one destroyed the bolt head, so I tried the other end of the bolt, only to round it. Then I tried a breaker bar on the other bolt, only to round that one, too.

TL;DR: get a pair of bolts along with the cats.

[MrSwaggerWagon]

I talked with the guys at my shop yesterday about it. They thought that it may be an issue with a lack of back pressure in your exhaust. I am not sure how you could temporarily increase your back pressure to test and see if your symptoms go away, but yeah, that may be something to check.

[Dinka]

Replaced cat found one locally ! for 35$ Instantly more power bottom end to top! Dono about fuel economy I shall report back with that unlike other idiots who abandon threads after finding the problem and resolving it I hate that!

[MrSwaggerWagon]

I think the problem was backpressure. In a 4 stroke engine, the exhaust valve actually opens before the charge is finished burning, and having enough backpressure is important to resist that initial blast of gasses into the exhaust system. By removing the cats, the exhaust flowed much more freely, which is good for turbos, and bad for NA engines, since the burning intake charge blasts out too quickly to finish burning. That is why you smelled unburnt fuel, and that is why your plugs were white.

I am glad that you could pick one up for that cheap. Hopefully you get your mileage back!

[Dinka]

Fuel economy is the same 4KMP F*** Liter I'm fedup at this point I will reset the ECU tomorrow and see

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Try just unhooking your battery for a minute or two, then drive it for, IDK, 40 k's, then fill up and test your fuel economy.

[Dinka]

Ill do that tomorrow

[Dinka]

Does anyone know where the fuel lines go from on the BE5 ? I suspect its a leak from some where! I can't seem to find the Fuel lines under the car.

[MrSwaggerWagon]

I will look it up in the FSM in a few minutes.

EDIT: Well, I didn't have the best of luck finding a good diagram that traced the fuel lines, but they run from the top of the tank, and go along places that shouldn't get very hot.

[MrSwaggerWagon]

If you can, I would put a fuel pressure gauge on your fuel line. Turn the key on so that the pump will prime and build pressure. If there is a leak, the pressure will bleed down.

Man, the more I work at a shop, the more I realize how convenient it is to just go and do something without having to find tools to do it, let alone having a lift (or 4)

On a side note, the previous owners of my car must have pulled off one of the little resonator tubes on my intake, so it was sucking in HOT air, through a hot intake manifold. After repairing that, replacing my air filter, and doing my headers, I went from 18 MPG up to 22!!! YES!!!

[Dinka]

If you can, I would put a fuel pressure gauge on your fuel line. Turn the key on so that the pump will prime and build pressure. If there is a leak, the pressure will bleed down.

Man, the more I work at a shop, the more I realize how convenient it is to just go and do something without having to find tools to do it, let alone having a lift (or 4)

On a side note, the previous owners of my car must have pulled off one of the little resonator tubes on my intake, so it was sucking in HOT air, through a hot intake manifold. After repairing that, replacing my air filter, and doing my headers, I went from 18 MPG up to 22!!! YES!!!

We did the Fuel pressure test and it was 40psi dono if the return is leaking how much psi should the return have ?

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Here is the best I could find in the FSM for my 2001 Legacy (wagon). Doesn't have return pressure, only the pressure at which it should shut off, and I'm not sure if this will help.

I am sure there are more knowledgeable people on these forums. I am in school right now, so my searching capabilities are somewhat limited. Also, links to all of the FSMs have been shared on this forum. Maybe you could pick one up and search as well.

1925

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Dinka Any news?

[Dinka]

I'm yet to test it still didn't get a chance mate

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Has your fuel economy improved? I want to think that if the other symptoms, such as the bogging, power loss, and overall running poorly, went away with the replacement of the cats, that the mileage would come back, too.

[Dinka]

Everything is solved now ! No hesitation at low rpm after MAP was replaced and guess what it was a Cheap Ebay MAP they work without an issue! 8-9kmpl I'm happy with that!

[MrSwaggerWagon]

Glad to hear that your problems are solved. Hopefully my input was of some value.

[Dinka]

Glad to hear that your problems are solved. Hopefully my input was of some value.

It was Thank you :)