AVO 2.5 Turbo Kit 97-99

[Gecko12314]

i was wondering if anyone has heard good things about this turbo kit, or has used it, im thinking about getting

[JjSwee]

Doesn't it cost the same as a WRX swap?

[Gecko12314]

its costs $3,495.00
heres the link for it
http://www.spomotorsports.com/images/spo/25turbokit572.jpg
http://www.spomotorsports.com/CategorizedTableDisplayTemplateRose.cfm?CategoryID=3&CustomerID=22277

[Huffer]

For double the price you could have a swap done - because once you get a taste of boost, you don't often enjoy being limited to 7psi.

[Gecko12314]

wheres a good place to look for a wrx engine? and how much more would it be for a sti engine lol

[blackgtbeauty]

www.eastcoastswappers.com (http://www.eastcoastswappers.com)

depending where your from, there are a lot of places that do the swap now.

[Wiscon_Mark]

For double the price you could have a swap done - because once you get a taste of boost, you don't often enjoy being limited to 7psi.

Of course, once you have the kit, you could always build a good bottom end around it for not too much more money. Swap the shortblock (for an EJ257) and you'd already have a nice setup with engine management, TBE, etc.

[Gecko12314]

Is this the short block your talking about?
http://www.flatironstuning.com/shop/pc-970-56-sti-ej257-shortblock.aspx

would this short block from crawford performance be better with there turbo kit?
Short Block- http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/db_part_info.cgi?id=142
Turbo Kit- http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/db_part_info.cgi?id=132

[Wiscon_Mark]

yeah, you could use that shortblock. I don't know why they show items that would be on a longblock though...pictures are always decieving.

[rougeben83]

You can get an STI block for around 1700 at the dealer. Mixing and matching the crank parts and getting lowcomp pistons, you'll end up with a 2.5l capable of a lot more of boost, with the torque the wrx engine doesn't have downlow.


BTW, highest I've read is like 20-30 psi or something on a stock NA block; look into the rs25 turbo section. That is though, they have other things like WRX heads, arp studs, some stuff done to the pistons.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Yeah, that block really isn't stock anymore. Too much money was put into it, for power comparable to a lightly modded STi.

[jey]

I got my stock EJ257 STi block for $1350 at the dealer.

[Svenerachi]

sorry to be reviving olf threads, but i don't get the chance to get on here much


anyway, wouldn't the cost of buying the kit for lets say 3500 bucks, then the cost of getting it installed, probably around 1000 dollars. then you're talking about, at a later time, getting a new bottoms end for 1500 bucks, and then having to have that installed, another 700 bucks or so? so in the end you're looking at about the same price as swapping out and upgrading a wrx engine. it might be more expencive to modify your stock engine to be comparable in power to a stock wrx.

yes the kit says that it will produce what, 10-15 more HP than a wrx, but the leggy's are much heavier and without supporting mods like an open exhaust and fuel managment/beefed up fuel delivery system you probably are going to be dissapointed with the results.

before my car got shot the other day by the crackheads downstairs, i was going to trade my 99LGT in for either a used WRX or get a new Legacy2.5GT and now that i have 2,000 in damages to the back seat, i've decided to just pimp out my car, put as much into the engine as i can afford and have fun. the back seat will get taken out tomorrow probably, so thats another 2 HP for me from weight reduction :-D

[Wiscon_Mark]

Legacys are not much heavier than the WRX. A WRX is 3150lbs approximately. The only Legacys that were significantly heavier than that were the 3rd gens which were in the 3400-3500 weight range.

My legacy is actually a touch under 3000.

But other than that, I agree, it's really not worth it.

[Perdue]

You can always upgrade your block to an STi or EJ22t block and put a bigger turbo on the AVO kit.

Some people have problems with the Engine Management on the AVO kit (PP6). I've heard great, and bad things about it. The guys on RS25 have covered this multiple times.

Most people seem to like building their own turbo kit. A used WRX turbo and intercooler/BOV, some custom intake tubing, and a uppipe/downpipe combo meant to work with the NA exhaust manifold, along with some EM, and you've got a turbo kit. The Wastegate holds the problem in this setup. A wastegate from an older subie can be modded to fit the WRX turbo, and can be had for pretty cheap. If I go this route, I'd probably look at going external wastegate and welding the stock internal wastegate shut. From there, upgrade the block, up the boost, and there ya go.

The way I see it, you'll always want more power though. WRX swap leads to more mods, but then I'd want more power through a turbo upgrade and block upgrade. With a good tune, a AFI kit can be just as reliable. It's as broad as it is long.

[rougeben83]

sorry to be reviving olf threads, but i don't get the chance to get on here much


anyway, wouldn't the cost of buying the kit for lets say 3500 bucks, then the cost of getting it installed, probably around 1000 dollars. then you're talking about, at a later time, getting a new bottoms end for 1500 bucks, and then having to have that installed, another 700 bucks or so? so in the end you're looking at about the same price as swapping out and upgrading a wrx engine. it might be more expencive to modify your stock engine to be comparable in power to a stock wrx.

yes the kit says that it will produce what, 10-15 more HP than a wrx, but the leggy's are much heavier and without supporting mods like an open exhaust and fuel managment/beefed up fuel delivery system you probably are going to be dissapointed with the results.

before my car got shot the other day by the crackheads downstairs, i was going to trade my 99LGT in for either a used WRX or get a new Legacy2.5GT and now that i have 2,000 in damages to the back seat, i've decided to just pimp out my car, put as much into the engine as i can afford and have fun. the back seat will get taken out tomorrow probably, so thats another 2 HP for me from weight reduction :-D

Let's just stack up what you stated there, you are comparing a turbo kit + a built up bottom end vs. a wrx swap. The former will be capable of making waaay more than just the turbo kit alone, and moreover more than a stock wrx engine could, with a better power delivery. The most important things to do with the turbo kit, and the ones that most people half-ass, is tuning, tuning, tuning.

Backseats don't weight that much...like 30lbs. Sorry to break it to you, but that's not 2hp right there :twisted: . If you want some serious weight reduction, gut the interior and take the sound proofing gunk off the floors. That's good for 100-200lbs.

As I see it, it's two ways to achieve the same thing. One isn't necessarily better than the other ALL THE TIME, as each person's need is different. An engine swap is only worth it when you're putting in a worked engine as it is (either a tuned Ej20t or an STI ej257t) IMO.

And the power difference from a stock turbo kit vs stock wrx is not 10-15hp; more like 40-50bhp depending on what dyno you use and the test conditions. (a stock wrx dyno's around 180-190's, the AVO turbo dyno's around 210 at the wheels - remember to take parasitic loss into account)

And the Mark, I think you meant the "engine" (not block, as I stated that it is still a regular ol' ej253 shortblock w/ all of those extras bolted on top of it, no special semi-closed deck, etc.) is not stock anymore. :wink:

The 00-04 GT's weight around 33-3400 lbs, the L's weigh little less, around 3200-3300 lbs.

[Wiscon_Mark]

No I did mean block. I thought it was sleeved.

[rougeben83]

No I did mean block. I thought it was sleeved.

I'll have to reread some of the threads, but IIRC, the 400hp power figure was coming from a reworked bottom end w/ stock block. I think the sleeving came in for the next set of power upgrades to get the car to run into the 10's or something...

[Wiscon_Mark]

okay, I certainly wasn't 100% on that, but I thought he got it sleeved.

[Perdue]

Some guys on RS25 built a turbo kit and put it on a regular 1998 EJ25. I can't remember how many PSI it took, but with VERY GOOD tuning, they put down 500whp. That's 500whp off of an open deck block. The seemed to have proven the deck isn't a problem with a good tune, which is key with any build. They didn spin a bearing though, and the motor wasn't running like that long, so don't go out and boost the crap out of your motor...please.

If you can get a STi block straight from the dealer for $1350 from the dealer, put your heads and intake manifold on it, build a custom turbo kit for $1000, Fuel pump and injectors (300-400), and some engine management with tuning (lets say another 400-500 with dyno time), you've spent $3000-3200 and have a motor capable of making the same, if not more, power than a WRX swap. You've done so without the wiring nightmare that seems to run about 4 weeks for most people to do.

[Huffer]

The key really is EM. For the money and no-hassle worries, I would look to do a full-swap with either a WRX motor (one of my locals has 400hp in his WRX wagon with over 20,000miles on the same tune) or a STi one, combined with either appropriate ECU w/ Cobb AP or Ecutek tune.

Nothing like factory map reliability. There are too many things to go wrong mechanically with a turbo car, and worrying about how well tuned the EM is is something I'd prefer to avoid.

[Perdue]

Oh...if you do order the AVO Turbo Kit, I would still recommend having it dyno tuned by a professional. Ask around and find one who's recommended in your area. Not just anyone can tune a motor, and running a "universal tune" is like a ticking time bomb...every motor is different.

[rougeben83]

A turbo kit absolutely requires a professional dyno tune. That's my personal opinion on it, as it is the key factor on whether you'll be happy with your kit, or you'll be one of many that comes posting on forums saying how turbo kits are bad and they shouldve gone with a swap (typical story).

DO get a good EM. DO get a dyno tune. DONT think a rising rate fuel regulator and a knock sensor counts as EM. DONT think something you whip up doing passes on a street will be equivalent to dyno time.

400hp wrx engines require almost the same kind of mods a you'd be putting into a turbo kit; fuel, engine management, and more boost (you're pretty much maxing out the TD04 at those power levels BTW). And the chances of blowing the "factory setup" is just as high considering it isn't so factory anymore isn't it? :roll:

Again, it's like comparing apples and oranges; the WRX swap also needs some decent work done to make big power numbers, if only slightly less than going the turbo route on your NA ej25.

[Svenerachi]

[

Let's just stack up what you stated there, you are comparing a turbo kit + a built up bottom end vs. a wrx swap.....

Backseats don't weight that much...like 30lbs. Sorry to break it to you, but that's not 2hp right there :twisted: .


actually i was saying comparing a wrx swap with a turbo kit (as was the whole conversation i was taking place in) and said that IF he did a turbo kit, that it would only make sense to get a worked on bottom end if he was looking for real performance.

and isn't professional tuning pretty much common sense? i didn't realize i would get berated for not mentioning the obvious. I'm no mechanic, and i'm definately not letting some laser brained nerf-herder work on my suby!!!!!!

and dude, ever heard of sarcasm? i was trying to make light of a very stupid situation. my fucking backseat got shot dude, give me a break and let me exaggerate by a single fucking horsepower. my backseats are leather, the speakers are ruined, so those are coming out along with all the pretty carpeting, trunk carpet, only bare metal except for my front seat. the interior was trashed by the previous owners children anyway, no loss to me.

[Wiscon_Mark]

okay, I don't think Ben meant to be that harsh, and I don't really care for the swearing here (it's not necessary).

I do think it's funny that you said laser brained nerf herder though
http://www.ashleybristowe.com/weblog/content/binary/Han%20Solo.jpg

[rougeben83]

[

Let's just stack up what you stated there, you are comparing a turbo kit + a built up bottom end vs. a wrx swap.....

Backseats don't weight that much...like 30lbs. Sorry to break it to you, but that's not 2hp right there :twisted: .


actually i was saying comparing a wrx swap with a turbo kit (as was the whole conversation i was taking place in) and said that IF he did a turbo kit, that it would only make sense to get a worked on bottom end if he was looking for real performance.

and isn't professional tuning pretty much common sense? i didn't realize i would get berated for not mentioning the obvious. I'm no mechanic, and i'm definately not letting some laser brained nerf-herder work on my suby!!!!!!

and dude, ever heard of sarcasm? i was trying to make light of a very stupid situation. my fucking backseat got shot dude, give me a break and let me exaggerate by a single fucking horsepower. my backseats are leather, the speakers are ruined, so those are coming out along with all the pretty carpeting, trunk carpet, only bare metal except for my front seat. the interior was trashed by the previous owners children anyway, no loss to me.

Forgive me if it seems like I was singling you out. I don't post on forums to address one person in particular; it was part of the whole conversation regarding the tuning. If I do want to talk to you one on one, I'd state it specifically in my post, or PM you... sound good? :wink:


Sorry, I'm no telepath, and I can't read body language over my DSL, and my sarcasm detector wasn't working that day either so... bear with me here :grin:

Oh yeah, you need to develop a thicker skin man, seriously. If you get that bent out of shape when someone mentions your backseat on the internet, I'd hate to see if someone brings up something more personal.

[Svenerachi]

i didn't say you were singling me out, i was just correcting what you misunderstood

and trust me, i take no offence, especially in misunderstandings, in fact i think that we're still misunderstanding eachother. i took no offence and certaintly don't mean to give offence to those i speak to on the forums. whats the point?

anyway like i said, i was just trying to clarify my previous post because i was obviously misunderstood, i'll try to be more clear

[Wiscon_Mark]

I find it hard to believe you didn't get bent out of shape, sorry.


and dude, ever heard of sarcasm? i was trying to make light of a very stupid situation. my fucking backseat got shot dude, give me a break and let me exaggerate by a single fucking horsepower.

[rougeben83]

i didn't say you were singling me out, i was just correcting what you misunderstood

and trust me, i take no offence, especially in misunderstandings, in fact i think that we're still misunderstanding eachother. i took no offence and certaintly don't mean to give offence to those i speak to on the forums. whats the point?

anyway like i said, i was just trying to clarify my previous post because i was obviously misunderstood, i'll try to be more clear

Alrighty, point taken.

Anyway, I just want to assuade any person reading this thread about how easy/hard it is to turbo a legacy - in either case. I think a lot of people underestimate the amount and type of work involved in not only getting a car to work with the turbo, but to work right. Either you spend a few hours dyno tuning the kit and limiting the amount of boost you can use, or spend hours (I mean *hours* - conservative estimates from shops is like 24-30 manhours to do the work) merging the wire harness of an subbie engine swap and the subbie it's going into, on top of the more intensive task of yanking an complete engine assembly out of the car.

Some are more willing to do one thing over the other, but either way, it's not simply throwing parts at the car until it fires up.

Bottom line is a turbo kit is NOT easy. And and engine swap is most certainly NOT easy as well.

[xcntrk75]

If it’s any consolation, I’m on my third professional dyno/street tune and I constantly tweak the tuners maps based on the application, and my setup is much more common then a unique turbo kit requiring standalone EM. I would imagine constant tuning would be required to keep a conglomeration of NA, FI, and aftermarket parts all running together well…

[GTLEGACY]

For double the price you could have a swap done - because once you get a taste of boost, you don't often enjoy being limited to 7psi.

I have to second the idea that once you get a taste of "swoosh" you will want more and more.
For the price of that kit, you could find an EJ255 or 257 from a wreck and go from there. Giving the track record for the head gaskets I wouldn't put a kit on an older EJ22 series and feel comfortable.

My 05 LGT is running 19psi with the stock VF40 turbo, and a stage 2 map from TDC tuning. This is allegedly the same motor as the STI but with slightly different pistons. The car has 34K on it now, I beat on it every day and it runs perfect. The stock EJ255 DOHC will support 400-450 flywheel hp without any modifications to internals. Go shop and search for a wrecked Legacy GT, ot an Outback XT, Forester XT. They have to be out there and I can't imagine you would pay more than 3-4000 bucks complete.

[Gecko12314]

sooo pretty much i could pick up a STi Block at the dealer
and then put my internals and my heads and manifold
and then make a custom turbo kit and do some EM and
i'd be good to go :grin:

[GTLEGACY]

Nooooo. Your internals and fuel system is totally different. I'd try to get a motor complete with the engine wire harness.

[Gecko12314]

If you can get a STi block straight from the dealer for $1350 from the dealer, put your heads and intake manifold on it, build a custom turbo kit for $1000, Fuel pump and injectors (300-400), and some engine management with tuning (lets say another 400-500 with dyno time), you've spent $3000-3200 and have a motor capable of making the same, if not more, power than a WRX swap. You've done so without the wiring nightmare that seems to run about 4 weeks for most people to do.
I'd rather go with out the wiring nightmare