offset?

[Payback45]

I just lowered my 02 legacy Gt with KYB and H&R. Looks great by the way. Any way, I was told that I will need to take it to a shop to adjust the camber. They also said to find out what my offset is? Does that make sense? This is my first time dealing with suspension. So I don't know all that I have to do now that it is lowered. Thanks.

[scottzg]

wheel offset

https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2006/08/wheeloffsetgif-1.jpg

subarus should be on wheels with a very high offset; 48-55mm

[Payback45]

Please excuse my ignorance but now that I have lowered it what should/do I do?

[blueb3]

It's ALWAYS best to have your alignmnt done after making any type of suspension changes, even though you bolt everything back where it belongs, it will be a little "off" from optimal.
not sure why they were asking about your offset though.

[Payback45]

nor do I. But I have been told to take it to a shop in about a month to ajust the camber. Does that sound right?

[Huffer]

Are you running stock 02 wheels? Then your offset is +55mm.

No need to adjust the camber, in a month - the springs will settle just fine.

The lowering will result in some natural negative camber, probably -1.5deg or so. Nothing major. Just remember to rotate your tires correctly every 2 oil changes.

[Payback45]

So it wont rub my tire the wrong way if I dont take it in?

[scottzg]

you have factory wheels, right?
Ignore the wrench monkeys.

If you don't take it in for an alignment your front wheels will wear out very quickly, but it will be extra responsive and less prone to understeer than your lowering springs will make it once you return to factory alignment. Hooray for lowering springs!

(lowering gives you more static negative camber ((although it does not affect dynamic negative camber vs. stock)) and more toe in)

[Payback45]

yes I have stock wheels. So one of you say do take it in and another one says dont. I guess the safe thing to do is to take it in. how much will it cost? And what is a good place to get it done?

[Wiscon_Mark]

I believe what Roger meant was for you to wait for the suspension to settle out before you go messing with the camber.

[Payback45]

gottcha. sounds like a plan

[Huffer]

I believe what Roger meant was for you to wait for the suspension to settle out before you go messing with the camber.

Exactly. What I meant to be more clear on is that if your initial alignment is fine - the springs won't settle to point where the car looks stupid. Which means a follow up alignment isn't necessary.

Your specs should probably be around -0.5 front and -1.5 rear camber, most likely. The shop you went to should have a print out of the alignment settings.

Most shops usually aim for +/- 0.5 deg camber front/rear...(think straight up and down). if you want something more aggressive you usually have to ask.

It's late, I'm tired. :lol:

[Payback45]

A friend and I did the suspension work so it hasn't been to a shop yet. In about a month we think it might be a good time to go.

[Huffer]

A friend and I did the suspension work so it hasnt been to a shop yet. In about a moth we think it might be a good time to go.

You should go now - if the car isn't aligned properly, you'll chew up good rubber.

[scottzg]

You should go now - if the car isn't aligned properly, you'll chew up good rubber.

i was wondering why you were saying to wait a month....

You can cord a set of tires in a month with all the toe change lowering makes.

[Payback45]

It was just to let the springs settle. i guess that isnt a popular idea in here.

[MitchGT]

GO NOW! I trashed a tire in about a month on the same setup you have because I was lazy and put off installing a balljoint needed to get my allignment. Trust me, do not wait. There's no way you got those front camber bolts exactly right by hand.

[Payback45]

We didnt even touch the camber. OK I will go. Where is a good place to go??

[Huffer]

i was wondering why you were saying to wait a month....

You can cord a set of tires in a month with all the toe change lowering makes.

I had assumed due to lack of info (beginning of thread) that the alignment had already been done, but that they had told him to go back in a month.

[Huffer]

We didnt even touch the camber. OK I will go. Where is a good place to go??

So how did you replace the springs without touching the camber bolt?

[Payback45]

sorry if i was not more clear. So where is a good place to take it??

[Payback45]

I don't even know what the camber bolt is. Or where it is. All I need to know is where to take it. Please. As you can see I am very ignorant

[Huffer]

sorry if i was not more clear. So where is a good place to take it??

Any alignment shop that is willing to deal with non-factory spec cars. Talk to the local autoxers in your area...

[MitchGT]

We didnt even touch the camber. OK I will go. Where is a good place to go??

So how did you replace the springs without touching the camber bolt?

^^^^ yeah, what he said...

[scottzg]

I've done it. If you compress the piss out of the spring prior to putting it on, you can slip it onto the strut by just undoing the topnut. I did it when i swapped my front and rear springs.

[Payback45]

Since I am clearly an idiot does anyone have a pic of what a camber bolt looks like??

[Wiscon_Mark]

Since I am clearly an idiot does anyone have a pic of what a camber bolt looks like??

I could be wrong, but...

http://64.71.53.59/images/goldline/goldline81260.jpg

Am I right?

[Payback45]

Thank you. Now another stupid question. When we were doing the front struts there were 2 large bolts we had to take out to get the old struts off. Were thoes the camber bolts??

[scottzg]

stuff written between the stars is extra information and doesn't answer the question.

******
https://sl-i.net/FORUM/images/imported/2006/08/cambergif-1.jpg
The top one was, did you notice how the bolts were keyed? Rotating that top bolt changes the camber. Sometimes the car is lowered so much that the bolt, even when turned to the furthest it can go, still can't return the car to factory camber; you'll still have too much negative camber. At this point you need to use camber bolts to extend it further.

The reason it can't go to factory camber is because the suspension is set up to naturally give more negative camber as the car rolls on to it. Positive camber from car rolling + negative camber from suspension should keep the wheel parallel to the ground and provide optimal grip.

The big problem with lowering is that the strut suspension provides less and less negative camber as the wheel goes up into the fender. When the lower control arm goes beyond horizontal the suspension actually provides positive camber- less grip in front, more understeer. You could fix this by simply never touching the camber bolts (which you did when you removed the strut from the hub) and you'd have exactly as much more static negative camber as what you took away by lowering. Unfortunately, you can't do this either because the wheels change toe as well, and toe eats tires.

*******

So- this leaves you with a decision; return the alignment to stock and have more understeer than your non-lowered car (you can tune this out with other suspension changes, but then you simply have less overall grip) You may need camber bolts to do this.
Or give some extra negative camber to the front end and have the car aligned to stock toe. This will eat tires faster than your other option, but not NEARLY as quickly as having goofy toe.

You could also just have them return the camber to as close as factory as possible and compromise between the two options.

In the rear, the factory bolts cannot adjust camber, so you have to either deal with extra neg. camber in the back or buy bolts for the rear too.

[Payback45]

Thank you for that in depth reply I wish I understood all of it but I still appreciate you taking the time to explain it. Now some of you might think we were crazy for doing this but we tightened those two bolts with a air tool. And I am talking about the two largest bolts. So was that wrong? If so now what do I do?