View Full Version : Well, this sucks...

06-12-2005, 09:54 AM
I'm guessing from where my header's been broken for so long (off and on), the engine has taken a beating. At the time, and for the past 2 weeks, it's not leaking much at all, but I've started to hear bad things around a certain RPM Range.

When accelerating or just cruising from 2000-2500rpm, I hear a metallic noise. It's hard to explain the noise...almost like someone sticking a full sheel of paper out the window and flapping it in the wind really fast, but metallic. It could also be compared to dragging a single chain, but fainter. This is DEFINATELY NOT Catalytic Converter Noise; Been there, done that. My guess right now is I've got some burnt valves or possibly pinging (some detonation maybe) since it only seems to happen in that certain RPM range. Right now, I'm going to try finishing out my tuneup: Plugs, Plug Wires, Air filter, fuel injector cleaner, and the fuel filter has already been done. If that doesn't solve it, I'm gonna try running the highest grade of fuel possible until I get enough together for a new engine.

Which brings me to my next question. I'm looking for a HP estimate/guess from everyone right now. I'm going to order a rebuilt EJ22 from CCR, pull the cams and have them reground (I believe Delta uses a proximal profile to the Cobb Spicy Cams), put on a ProECM Pulley set (lightened, not underdriven), extend my intake to cold air, and keep my exhaust setup (probably gonna have to order a new header), try and get a Bored/polished TWE Throttle Body, and tune my fuel curve with a Apexi S-AFCII. Anyone wanna estimate the power level?

FYI, guys on NASIOC are putting out around the same and sometimes more WHP with EJ25s with Intakes, Cobb Spicy Cams, TWE Headers, full headerback exhaust, lightened flywheel and aftermarket clutch, and pullies. I'm going a little further, but I'm using an EJ22 and sadly, a 4EAT, so no flywheel and clutch for me.

06-12-2005, 10:27 AM
I've had a rattle right around that RPM coming from my transmission (manual) for about 50,000 miles and its not a problem just something loose somewhere....it could be nothing, but I dont' know very much compared to some.
Its just something to consider. And you have how many miles?

06-12-2005, 11:51 AM
well, I talked to a mechanic from my fire station and he's throwing out the burnt valve idea. He said there's a chance I could be getting some pinging or detonation in that rpm range for some reason (most likely fuel system), but it's highly unlikely and the car would probably be stumbling in that range if so. He said I should start looking for loose bolt, heat sheilds, and make sure a weld hasn't come loose on my header (possibly one if the pipes rattling inside the collector). I'm at ease now, so i guess I'll start saving for paint...or maybe a new engine anyways...I dunno...

Edit: Frank also said that burnt valves shouldn't really make any noise, and if it was something with the internals, it would do it throughout the RPM range. He said burnt valves will cause compression problems and your first symptom is going to be missing/backfiring, plus a pretty bad lack of power due to the fact that you're losing so much compression and therefore running on 1 less cylinder.

Anyways, HP guesses??

06-12-2005, 11:45 PM
My car has a dingaling/cowbell sound from the heat shields around 2.5-3k. Must cut them off!

06-13-2005, 12:13 AM
My throwout bearing is a POS sot when I let off the clutch it makes a funny noise..I push the clutch in and she is dead silent...

I am going to wait for the clutch or TOB to go then replace both of them and get a lightened flywheel.

06-13-2005, 12:37 AM
If you've got aftermarket exhaust/headers, you could just be rattling something because of harmonic frequency. Don't know if you did the physics classes in school, but harmonic frequency is when the frequency at which something begins to vibrate is induced near it by something vibrating at that same frequency.

So, when you're engine is at that RPM, the frequency that the sound waves are producing is right around the harmonic frequency of something metallic around the engine. Could be something that has gradually gotten loose because its wanted to vibrate, but only now has it come loose enough that you can hear it. It could also be a loose weld like your mechanic said.

On that note, my heatshields definately rattle at those RPMs, so maybe it is a slight rattle in the heatshields.

06-13-2005, 09:52 AM
...almost like someone sticking a full sheel of paper out the window and flapping it in the wind really fast, but metallic.

so sorry to say, sounds like the textbook definition of detonation. for starters, what do you run for fuel??

going to order a rebuilt EJ22 from CCR

these people are awesome to work with, and their motors kick ass!! from colorado to maine, they gave me a great price and had great service. I'd recheck the oil pump's backing plate screws before i installed the motor, but other than that, awesome people.

but, while youre at it... why not order an EJ22T shortbock??? you cant go wrong with that block. even if you stay NA, thats the best block around...closed deck, piston squirters...its awesome. if you stick with your ej22 heads, you shouldnt have to switch any electrical parts over.

FYI, guys on NASIOC are putting out around the same and sometimes more WHP with EJ25s with Intakes, Cobb Spicy Cams, TWE Headers, full headerback exhaust, lightened flywheel and aftermarket clutch, and pullies. I'm going a little further, but I'm using an EJ22 and sadly, a 4EAT, so no flywheel and clutch for me.

ive seen some dyno results where the TWE equal length headers added almost 20 hp!! its unbelievable! and i believe it lost 5 in torque, but who cares... the borla is only good for 5 in torque...lol...almost 0 hp bonus...

i would go with TWE cams also... Cobbs seem to have a tendency to sometimes come apart...

06-13-2005, 10:11 AM
Sounds like the heatsheild to me Johnny P, my car is doing the same now, I went through a huge puddle the other day and have been hearing the racket non-stop now no matter what RPM, used to just be at or above 3500 going up or coming down, but now its all over the place, I got under the car yesterday to look and see what was going on there, but couldn't pin-point the exact location, it seems like it's coming more from the front, so I'm going to toy with some ring clamps to see if I can hold it in place, otherwise chop it off. So between that and my own throw-out-bearing noise, I'm just glad my stereo's volume goes up to 70...its just too bad people turn their heads due to the noise and expect to see a Mexican driving a beatup civic...instead see me and my poor Legacy. I'm going to try and fix it today, if not break out the tin snips and some zip ties. The clutch is going to have to wait...I just replaced it last summer, and the throwout bearings already shot to shit, one of my mech buddies said if it was a heavy-duty clutch on a stock system then I probably broke a pressure plate finger which is why its making the chirping (or chik chik chik) noise again. I need to replace my master cylinder as well, I've been having problems with the clutch sticking at higher RPM's, or all the pressure getting sucked out of it as the RPMs increase, so I'm hoping that and a new SS line will help, but I'll wait to do it all at once with a new flywheel and clutch.

06-13-2005, 10:18 AM
ive seen some dyno results where the TWE equal length headers added almost 20 hp!! its unbelievable! and i believe it lost 5 in torque, but who cares...

i'd care. I think its more important to get up to 70mph more quickly than it is to go 135 mph instead of 130. But hey, its your car.

Pwise-glad to see you have some time to be on SLi Hope we see more of you! Too bad about your car...You must beat on yours a lot too.

06-13-2005, 11:05 AM
I'm glad I've got a cable clutch. I had my fair shair of cylinder problems on my pickup. Had my master cylinder leak out right where the piston comes through the firewall to the pedal. That was a bit of a mess, and I was already running late to work :x

BTW, who is CCR? If its a colorado company, I might have to go check them out... :twisted:

06-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Colorado Component Rebuilders, Inc.


06-13-2005, 12:04 PM
Oh my god... a turbo motor just got closer to reality.... with a warranty too?! oh yeah! :twisted:

Ok, gonna stop posting, I don't want to hijack.

06-13-2005, 12:48 PM
Tokio, staying NA with an EJ22t shortblock doesn't seem right to me...What about compression??

Also, TWE and Cobb do not make headers for a Single Port Head, as the EJ22s in the BD Legacys have. I couldn't change my heads over to the EJ22t block and then use TWE Headers.

As far as the power gains you're talking about with the TWE as compared to the Borla: Horsepower sell cars; Torque wins races...Plus the Borla sounds better :lol:

06-14-2005, 08:45 AM
Not all the EJ22's are single port. My 1995 L Sedan was dual port like the EJ25's are. I second the TWE headers though, that's what I am putting on my MY02 GT as soon as I get the $$.

06-14-2005, 10:36 AM
i dunno about the heatshield making that noise (i do know they make noise, just not sure if that is what hes got)...i wish we could hear it...

at any rate, even if theres a POSSIBILITY of pinging going on, id up my octane...

and, sweet jesus ryan, easy on the ride... i just had to change my master cylinder this past spring because of a stuck pedal... and SPEND THE MONEY ON THE PDM SNOUT KIT...no more bad throwout bearings...

to determine what is causing the clutch sounds... tell me, does it make noise when:

a. car is on, car out of gear, foot off clutch pedal...


b. car is on, car out of gear, clutch pedal to the floor...


c. car is on, car in gear, clutch pedal in or out

06-16-2005, 11:29 PM
definately an exhaust rattle. it's gotten progressivly worse and will do it throughout the RPM range. No CELs to speak of. I'm guessing it's the heatshield on my high flow cat, but that's welded on...how can I remove that without doing damage??

06-17-2005, 12:50 AM
Funny thing is I don't really beat on my car at all, only time I really open the throttle wide is getting on the highway...I love the consistent powerband pull up to redline...what can I say, DOHC rules!. I've been eyeing the PDM sleeve, I'm going to snag it before I do any clutch work. As far as the noise, it makes a chik chik chik chik chik chik chik chik chik chik chik chik sound when the pedal is NOT depressed, the moment you press down on it the sound goes away. I've been told it was the throw out bearing, the little paper clips that hold it to the clutch fork break (well one does) and it sits unevenly on the pressure plate causing wear on the P/P fingers (it grinds in a ring...I saw it when I replaced the clutch last summer). Either that or I was told that one of the fingers on the pressure plate may have broken off, causeing the throwout bearing to again sit unevenly and make the noise. Either way its a pain in the butt, and there is no way to look cool when your car is making funky noises. As far as the rattling...before you remove the heatshields check to see if they are really loose. I just removed the heatshields off my stock header and the main heatshield above the cat/midpipe, and I still have that god-awful rattle. I'll see if I can use my brothers video camera to record the sound, see what you guys think. On top of both of those, one of my belts needs to be tightened, but I'm thinking I'm going to have them both replaced (time for the timing belt) and get my cam and crank seals (as well as some valve cover gaskets and possibly another HG) because I'm leaking oil like the Exxon Valdez...just put another quart in from the last time I did 3 weeks ago.

Looks like all the money I saved up to get a new engine is going to go towards keeping this one alive...seeing I don't have another car to get me to my job(s) during the downtime. Bummer.

06-22-2005, 10:30 PM
ryan-that sound happening when the pedal isnt depressed can only mean you have a defective throwout bearing... the bearing itself, not the wires(2) that hold it. its an easy thing to replace with the engine out...not so easy with one in... but not complicated or impossible...just tedious.