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rougeben83
11-13-2006, 10:47 AM
One of the other threads got me wondering...anyone know how easy it is to put the subframe spacers on a BE Legacy?

I'm probably the only one here and thinks the stock ride height is fine; just needs a stiffer spring rate. Maybe I can pair this up with the Syms springs I bought and get back most of my ride height :grin:

I'd like to keep rallyx'ing with my legacy but lowered, it wouldn't make it past the first turn.

Wiscon_Mark
11-13-2006, 01:13 PM
I don't see why it wouldn't be easy enough to do. After all, there were BE Outbacks.

sheepdog
11-13-2006, 02:58 PM
Yep. I've never heard of anyone doing it, but I'm almost positive its possible.

rougeben83
11-15-2006, 12:15 PM
Cool, do you guys know what the subframe spacers are? I mean, where do they go. I'm hoping they raise the entire car, engine and tranny, etc. and not just a body lift that lifts the body frame but keeps everything else low.

badbasser98
11-15-2006, 12:54 PM
If they are like the 2nd gen outbacks, then its just a body lift...

shazapple
11-15-2006, 01:29 PM
The engine is attached to the tranny, and theyre both attached to the body of the car, so the spacers would probably be in around the suspension. Probably where the A arms hook onto the body

scottzg
11-16-2006, 11:39 PM
they're in between the subframe and the chassis. Easy enough to find if you crawl under there.

OutbackGT
11-17-2006, 10:49 PM
Are the frame spacers only in the back? Or is there a pair up front too?

scottzg
11-17-2006, 10:54 PM
everywhere there's a subframe ;)

OutbackGT
11-17-2006, 11:02 PM
What exactly do you mean? Can you be more specific, please?

sheepdog
11-17-2006, 11:44 PM
Front and rear

OutbackGT
11-18-2006, 12:13 AM
So if I swap all frame spacers for Legacy frame spacers, that'll give me approximately a one inch drop?

shazapple
11-18-2006, 12:18 AM
I don't think you guys are quite getting his question.

Theres the body of the car (the whole sheet metal part) and then theres small 'sub frames' which all the suspension and other components attach too. Usually the sub frames are bolted to the body, so the spacers would be there

Really, the easiest way would be understand to crawl underneath and look around

OutbackGT
11-18-2006, 12:47 AM
I've been down there many a time, though I haven't looked specifically for the spacers. I'll take a look next time I'm down there.

OutbackGT
11-19-2006, 10:21 PM
Okay, so I think I found em, are these them?:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8952/1000411copygq3.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9273/1000413xe8.jpg

Let's say I swap 'em with Legacy spacers, what about this bracket/brace thing:

It looks to be solidly connected from where the spacer is to the frame. Won't this have to be swapped too? I'm getting really confused here. http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7150/1000414copyjw2.jpg

ten80
11-20-2006, 12:18 AM
You have the right idea- it's really not complicated. I took my rear subframe off today to change the rear diff and noticed that there are NO spacers of any sort on the legacy between the subframe and body. You will have to get round plates that fit on top of the subframe bushings and a new bracket (the one your circled) for each side. That should do the trick, but let me know if you have any questions. I can still feel the weight of the subframe in my lower back :lol:

rougeben is looking for some frame spacers and it is possible that you guys could trade parts.

OutbackGT
11-20-2006, 12:42 AM
Well, I won't be doing my suspension for at least a couple months, just trying to gather as much info as I can on the subject. So basically what I was told on SubaruOutback.org is that the spacers don't have anything to do with ride height, just the angle of the CV joints.

ten80
11-20-2006, 10:01 AM
what I was told on SubaruOutback.org is that the spacers don't have anything to do with ride height, just the angle of the CV joints.


What you just said makes little sense. The spacers WILL lift your car by however tall they are and that will also affect CV angles. You are putting something about 1.5" tall between the suspension and body of your car, therefore the car will be lifted by 1.5" (or however tall the spacers are).

OutbackGT
11-20-2006, 09:06 PM
what I was told on SubaruOutback.org is that the spacers don't have anything to do with ride height, just the angle of the CV joints.


What you just said makes little sense. The spacers WILL lift your car by however tall they are and that will also affect CV angles. You are putting something about 1.5" tall between the suspension and body of your car, therefore the car will be lifted by 1.5" (or however tall the spacers are).

No, you see the subframe doesn't have anything to do with the suspension height (ride height). All that will happen if I take out the spacers is it will bring the subframe an inch or so closer to the body. This is why Legacies with Outback struts and springs have more ground clearance then Outbacks, BUT they're stressing their CV joints more.

shazapple
11-20-2006, 11:37 PM
the body's connected to the tophats, the tophats are connected to the strut/springs, the strut/springs are connected to the subframe, the subframe is connected to my wristwatch...... oh no!

And thats my little song. Your post kindof contradicted itself. Also (I could be wrong) but I think the rear diff is attached to the body too, so the spacers would affect CV angles

Wiscon_Mark
11-21-2006, 12:40 AM
Lee beat me to it.

There's no way affecting the subframe won't affect the suspension.

OutbackGT
11-21-2006, 01:07 AM
Arg. I'm so confused now. Just... look here:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6463

I'm scooberoo, btw.

ten80
11-21-2006, 02:51 AM
I sort of see your point and we have been arguing different ideas. With the spacers removed, the distance between the axle and body doesn't change since the strut length is constant, however the subframe to ground clearance does change, as does the CV angle. Removing the spacers will increase CV angle and increase subframe to ground clearance since the control arms will have to angle downwards more severely, however, body height will remain the same. Removal of the spacers would also add positive camber, which is usually undesirable. I can post a scetch of both scenarios if that doesn't make sense.

OutbackGT
11-23-2006, 01:12 PM
I sort of see your point and we have been arguing different ideas. With the spacers removed, the distance between the axle and body doesn't change since the strut length is constant, however the subframe to ground clearance does change, as does the CV angle. Removing the spacers will increase CV angle and increase subframe to ground clearance since the control arms will have to angle downwards more severely, however, body height will remain the same. Removal of the spacers would also add positive camber, which is usually undesirable. I can post a scetch of both scenarios if that doesn't make sense.

Exactly.

bobbyjimmy
11-30-2006, 06:07 PM
After putting my Outback and a Liberty/Legacy on hoists next to each other, these are the pictures I found of spacers in the front (the rears are the same as the pictures up further in the thread) note the mad photoshop skillz;

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/bobbyjimmy/FrontCrossmemberSpacer.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/bobbyjimmy/FrontCrossmemberSpacer2.jpg

Spacer sits between the chassis and front crossmember, Liberty/Legacy's sit flush with the chassis

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/bobbyjimmy/GBoxCrossmemberSpacer.jpg

The G/Box has 2 spacers, the ones above, and another set up higher.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/bobbyjimmy/FrontBracket.jpg

This is some bracket that a few clips go in to, Liberty/Legacy's are flush again.

Also, the control arms, rear of the front control arm bushes, G/Box crossmembers and a few other little pieces have completley different part numbers.
I can't see an easy way, without swapping atleast the control arms over.

Wiscon_Mark
11-30-2006, 06:11 PM
Good post dude :smile:

OutbackGT
11-30-2006, 08:57 PM
Wow. That's alot of spacers 'n stuff. This may prove harder than I thought.

mranlet
12-04-2006, 10:36 PM
Spacers on BG/BD Outbacks:
REAR
-2 2-hole spacers at the rear (tub) portion of the subframe
-2 1-hole spacers at the end of the moustache bar
-2 anti-roll bar mounts (1.5" taller on Outback models)

FRONT
-2 2-hole spacers on either side of the engine cradle, above the lateral portion of the control arm
-Transmission mount for Outbacks is made to hang the transmission 1.5" lower on the body (for raising the car)
-Shifter fulcrum bracket is offset about .75". This can be flipped around to lower the shifter arm on the body (for raising the car)
-Pitch stop arm (or mount, not sure which) is longer on Outback
-Ourback have a longer intermediate steering shaft above the steering rack

The subframe bolts for use with subframe spacers are considerably longer than non-spacer bolts, so if you're planning on doing a raise you'll need to source the bolts ($1 each from the dealer). I haven't found a difference in the rear mounts of the front control arms, but this is probably so that the anti-dive of the front suspension in increased on the higher Outback model. The same goes for the forward (body side) trailing arm mounts for the rear suspenison.

Raising the car effects the angles of the CV joints, but I believe that these spacers were intendended to maintain proper roll center rather than CV angle. regardless if you raise your car, you should space the subframe the same amount.

I'm lowering my BG Legacy Outback a considerable amount from stock and will be removing these spacers to adjust roll center. All of my spacers will be available. If someone is looking for these parts, let me know via PM and I can send them to you.

Hope this helps.