"Spongy" brakes

[skeeboo]

Recently had my 1999 outback wagon worked on and drove a rental. After getting my car back, the brakes feel "spongy". The car stops fine, but not like the rental does. That kind of worries me.

Do I need new brake pads? Tires?

The shop I had the repairs (front end) done said my pads are fine and I have about 50% of tire tread left.

Well, just looking at them, the pads are rusted. But that seems common on lots of cars. Would new pads help fix this, or do I have more serious problems?

[shazapple]

Try replacing the brake fluid first.

I find BD/BG brakes don't have an 'initial bite' other cars do.

[acjx880]

Did they change the brake fluids?

Coz on my recently purchased BH the front pads has about 85% and the rear pad were about 80%, but the brake fluid was so dark I thought the previous owner forgot to chage it, and the brakes were quite spongy when compared to my gf's '00 Outback with less pads but cleaner brake fluids.

I had my mechanics flushed the brake system twice to make sure all the dirty fluids were gone and the spongy-ness only just started to get better after 3 days.

[Reason]

Brake fluid is the best place to start (like it was said). But my brakes where always spongy until I did stainlees steel brake lines. It helped with new pads and rotors. I'm sure there is still flex in the master cylinder too.

[badbasser98]

Every Subaru I have driven (except for the 06 Spec.B) has had a very soft brake feel. When I upgraded my rotors and pads, I noticed this decreased a bit, though that is mostly due to the fact that I don't have to press the pedal as hard to decelerate the car at the same rate.

[Reason]

Thats right, upgraded brakes kick ass.

[d1giPhux]

If you decide to get your break fluid replaced / get new pads, i can make a recommendation for pads :

Axxis Ultimates (kevlar / ceramic).. these are awesome for stopping power, but the trade off is, they do give off a bit of brake dust. If you dont mind cleaning your rims every now and again, they are awesome! I have them, and i recommend them!

Axxis Deluxe pads - These are supposed to have great stopping power too, but give off little to no brake dust. I bought my pads from this guy :

http://www.zeckhausen.com/subaru_products.htm

If you have any questions, just email him.. he's really cool, and very good at helping answer questions! Good luck man!

[Reason]

For pads I was using CARBO Tech Bobcats, now I run Hawk HPs

[d1giPhux]

^ Nice.. but those are too expensive for my taste. Plus, i really doubt you get THAT much of an advantage over the Axxis Ultimates.. mostly just paying for name brand is what me-thinks. The guy over at zeckhausen reccomends the axxis pads, and he works with brakes.. so.. there must be something good about them. :cool:

I really reccomend the Axxis pads for the price / performance. I dont know what you use your car for really.. but i doubt you need any 'better' brake pads really.

By the way.. what are the HP pads made out of anyways?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Axxis pads are junk compared to the carbotech and the Hawk. They won't last as long, and won't be nearly as effective.

[d1giPhux]

Axxis pads are junk compared to the carbotech and the Hawk. They won't last as long, and won't be nearly as effective.

I dunno, they seem to work great for me, and at half the cost. I wouldnt go as far as to call them junk.. because they are WAY better than stock pads.. which would have to be SHIT if mine are junk. Hah. :lol:

I just dont see any point in spending $109 for 2 pads when you can pay half the price and get good pads for the same.

[Wiscon_Mark]

109 bucks for a pair? Haha, where are you looking? 70 and 80 for Hawk HPS pads @ boxer4racing.

[d1giPhux]

109 bucks for a pair? Haha, where are you looking? 70 and 80 for Hawk HPS pads @ boxer4racing.

LOL That sucks, still $60 more for front and backs then if you get them as compared to the Axxis Pads. $60 is a lot of money.. unless you have a lot of $ to blow. So you will pay $160 for front and backs, and i will pay a little under $100. Eh.. w/e. haha Do what u want =]. I'm sure they are great pads.. but i love my Axxis pads.. they definitely are great.

What is the fade resistance temperature of the HPS pads anyways? And yea, i think i got the price wrong, was looking at the wrong ones.. but thats still hella expensive for a pair of pads. Either way, im sure both are good pads, id just rather spend less.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Oh, and to the OP, if a spongy brake pedal feel is your problem, bleed the brakes first.

[badbasser98]

The Hawk HPS pads are ferro-carbon pads.


HPS Ferro-Compound Features:

Increased stopping power
High friction/torque hot or cold
Gentle on rotors
Extended pad life
Low dust
Virtually noise-free

[Reason]

Axxis pads are junk compared to the carbotech and the Hawk. They won't last as long, and won't be nearly as effective.

Plus the Hawk pads dont throw out loads of dust. My rims stay clean.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Loads of dust = wearing out quicker. I really do think that the extra money is worth it for longevity alone.

[d1giPhux]

Axxis pads are junk compared to the carbotech and the Hawk. They won't last as long, and won't be nearly as effective.

Plus the Hawk pads dont throw out loads of dust. My rims stay clean.

Eh, i can deal with the dust.. i clean my rims every week anyways! :grin:

[warrior]

Damnit, I am definately going to spend some money in the spring on some decent pads/rotors. I got crappy Raybestos right now.. hah hah hah!

Brake fade galoreee!!!!!

[Sarra]

Interesting. My BK has RUSTED calipers, but the rotors, pads, and fluid were all changed like the day before I bough the car. initial bite is great, but they fade quickly.

I used to have a set of Akebono pads on my BE, they had NO initial bite, but once they warmed up, they wouldn't fade for a long time. Heh, the rotors were glowing and they still worked just fine!

[blackgtbeauty]

I got crappy Raybestos right now.. hah hah hah!

Brake fade galoreee!!!!!

Raybestos FTW!!111!

<---------Choice of this champion! (for my BD that is.)

[badbasser98]

I used to have a set of Akebono pads on my BE, they had NO initial bite, but once they warmed up, they wouldn't fade for a long time. Heh, the rotors were glowing and they still worked just fine!
The only time that I find I need to be carefull with the Hawks is when they are wet.. It takes them a fair amount of time to "dry out" and start biting better. It was kinda scary the first few times I hit the brakes after driving in the rain. They are OK after some heat gets in them and they stay dryer... Other than that, initial bite is awsome, even when cold. The colder you go, or the hotter you go its better. At around 65* they take a slight warm up period before they really grab... Just been my experience with them.

[Plays_with_Toys]

I also have Akebono ceramic pads. They brake very well and I think, just well enough not to warp my rotors. And that is a plus. They also don't throw off alot of dust, and the dust that does come off wipes off super easy.

Now, I've got some questions and figured I may as well not start a new thread about this. I was spending my christmas gift cards ($100 at pepboys :shock: ) so after an electric impact wrench I went for brake fluid and speed bleeders.

I got some castrol high performance fluid, but as I was looking at the bottles they had a wet boiling point (high 200* F) and a dry boiling point (400-500*F). Some listed both, some listed one or the other. I know the higher the boiling point the better for longevity (doesn't boil, less air, don't have to bleed as soon), but which is the better boiling point for comparison? The castrol stuff I got has a 501* dry boiling point.

Also, the speed bleeders that I bought were the only metric size they had at 10mm I believe. Either 10 or 8, but does anyone know if that is the correct thread size for our subies?

[skeeboo]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'm going to try bleeding the brakes and checking the fluids. I assume the fluids were checked at the authorized dealer, but it probably wouldn't hurt.

Also, thanks for the pad recommendations (and price ranges). I'll check them all out.

[EuroAccord13]

When was the last time the brake fluid got flushed, don't just bleed it, do a flush on it, only costs u an extra bottle of brake fluid :)

If you want good positive feel after your fluid change, I'd recommend a master cylinder stopper to reduce your bulkhead flex... I guarantee a better brake feel with that mod!

[Wiscon_Mark]

Oh, well, I guess I kinda meant a flushing of the brake fluid. At least, when I bleed it, I'm going to get entirely fresh fluid in there.

[Plays_with_Toys]

If you want good positive feel after your fluid change, I'd recommend a master cylinder stopper to reduce your bulkhead flex... I guarantee a better brake feel with that mod!

What is this?

Also, I forgot to ask, what is the process to properly flush the system? I didn't see a bleeder to bleed the master cylinder, but I imagine you'd want fresh fluid there, and then you crack open the bleed screw furthest from the cylinder and work closer and closer getting fresh fluid coming out from each bleeder screw? Apparenlty I'll need to bleed my brakes after I do my struts, so I'll probably wait until I do those to do the brakes.

[Huffer]

If you want good positive feel after your fluid change, I'd recommend a master cylinder stopper to reduce your bulkhead flex... I guarantee a better brake feel with that mod!

What is this?


It's a brace designed to stop the master cylinder from flexing under pressure.
Much like an engine brace.

MRT in Australia made them for the Impreza GC WRX, I had one on my wagon, but couldn't notice any difference in pedal feel, so I sold it.

[MCarp22]

You can get a lot of brake feel out of the calipers. Most cars, legacies included, have floating calipers with the piston on one side. They can tend to be neglected so disassembling them and cleaning and lubricating the bushings that they slide back and forth on will make for better braking.