clutch "issues"

[overl0ad]

ok, as u guys know, i got a new car.

now, when i launch the car. there's whining sound and a burning smell.

when i got 5 persons in the car, same deal.

and i don't mean like taking off from 5K rpms. it's like 3K.

i have a tendancy to slide/slip the clutch. but it giving up after under 1500KM(that's under 1000 miles for all you imperial people) is a total joke.

spoke to a "senior service manager" today, and he tells me that the car comes with a ceramic clutch.

anyways, i'm hoping that it's an adjustment thing.

wil keep you guys posted.

[Plays_with_Toys]

ummmm.... car model, year, how old is the clutch, more info is needed.

Depending on year you either have a hydraulic clutch or a cable. Cable clutches have an easy adjustment for slipping.

[Wiscon_Mark]

He has a brand new LGT, it's hydraulic.

The burning is you taking thousands of miles on the clutch.

Please don't launch your AWD car, you might find that clutch won't be your only issue if you keep doing so.

[Huffer]

Clutches burn. People shouldn't launch with 5 people in a vehicle.
Especially not one that's as heavy as an 07 Legacy (it's not a GT, cos it's not boosted, right?) with the puny 2.5L engine.

Yes, the 2.5 is puny in comparison to the weight it has to move.

Also, if you are slipping the clutch, then that's a good way to abuse it.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Okay, but it's the same tranny.

[jmgtp]

is the new LGT turbo only?

Seems like you toasted the clutch man. Ceramic clutch (is it really?!) doesnt mean indestructible.

lots of power + frequent 3k rpm launches = clutch death

then again, not so much power + frequent 3k rpm launches = clutch death

Normal driving doesn't take much more than just above idle speed clutch engagement. I rarely see more than 1200 or so rpm before the clutch is fully engaged.

Moral of the story, repetitive 3k rpm launches will burn the hell out of a clutch awd or not. Are you saying the clutch is also slipping when theres a large weight load (5 people) in the car hence more stress on the clutch and in its worn condition it gives.

Try this: 1st gear, clutch fully engaged at a 15 or so mph roll, go full throttle and full brake at the same time. I bet the clutch slips. A good clutch won't slip. In theory, with everything working correctly, the brakes should win and bring the revs down (as in the clutch is holding) even though at full throttle you're not supplying much vacuum to the booster assist. In your case I bet the car slows while the revs go up.

Replace the clutch, chalk it up to inexperience, and avoid frequent race car launches. If the car is new you can try to get the dealer to replace it as defective but I certainly wouldnt mention 3k rpm launches to them.

[backpack09]

Another way to check is cruising on the highway at speed. Mash the gas in 5th. If the clutch is toast, it will slip.

Dan

[Plays_with_Toys]

I do the 30-40mph in 5th gear mash, because the engine will really pull and the car won't want to speed up, resulting in slip or bog. If slip clutch is gone, if bog, then you're ok for now and stop driving it that hard.

If you want to drive more spiritedly, get the car moving then romp on it. The launch is what kills the clutch.

[backpack09]

But if you must launch, Upgrade to a heaver pressure plate.

Again, I am new to subies, but have a lot of experience with DSMs.

I run a very heavy clutch in my talon ACT 2600, I have to slip it a lot every time I start from a stop. But when I launch, I slip it a second to prevent bogging. But I also launch from a rally type stutter box :) With 300 hp and break all 4 tires loose :)

I have about 40k miles and around 100 HARD launches on that clutch and it still feels like new.

Remember that launching not only puts a lot of strain on your clutch, it also wears and breaks drivetrain parts very quickly.

A little wheel hop off the line can destroy an axle, gears, a center dif(not sure if that applies) or a transfer case(not sure if that applies either), hell I have even seen sheered input shafts...

Dan

[Danbob]

I know everyone is saying the same thing here but....PLEASE do not destroy a brand new AWD suby because you are trying to launch it for your buddies to show them how quick it is. You will burn the clutch in 7 thousand miles, destroy your 2nd gear from mashing it, and cause multiple oil leaks and such from not breaking the car in properly. It's AWD.....launch like a normal human being and romp on it in third gear if you want to make them crap the pants. much more fun then two seconds of first gear.....also far less abusive.

If the car is a non-turbo then why even bother??? It's not fast....It's just a really nice, new, great driving car that you should enjoy- keep it that way. :roll:

[overl0ad]

MY07 2.5i SOHC

1500KM (950ish miles)

the entire car is 3 weeks old.

i went to subaru today (good thing i only work like 3 mins away from them)

they recon it's the flywheel, so they've ordered one from sydney (i'm in melbourne)

we'll see what happens...

[backpack09]

... umm ...
Correct me if I am wrong, but

Unless the flywheel wheel was improperly Stepped from the factory, then I don't think that a flywheel could ever cause the clutch to slip.

[Wiscon_Mark]

... umm ...
Correct me if I am wrong, but

Unless the flywheel wheel was improperly Stepped from the factory, then I don't think that a flywheel could ever cause the clutch to slip.

Agreed. That makes no sense.

I honestly don't think anything is wrong here except for you launching the car.

[gil_ong81]

the suspected of the flywheel aside, take it easy when moving off from a stop.

for normal street driving, i don't think i've ever had the RPM anything more that 1,500 RPM.

when your car is full and you're hauling around fatty, you should just give yourself more time and distance to get up to speed.

see, guys. this is the problem when family is scattered around the globe and the older members can't pass on knowledge to the younger ones. :)

[overl0ad]

i'm just gonna wait for this clutch thing to get fixed, then i'll make a decision as to if it's the way i drive.

[Huffer]

see, guys. this is the problem when family is scattered around the globe and the older members can't pass on knowledge to the younger ones. :)

Or give them a good clip around the head. ;)

[EuroAccord13]

According to overl0ad, Subaru told him that the Legacy clutch is ceremic. but when I was driving the car prior to this issue, it didn't feel like it's a ceremic at all, the engagement is unlike a ceremic one because it's smooth and not and not abrupt like a ceramic's

If it is indeed a ceremic clutch, overl0ad's driving style (slider) may play a part in Subaru's so called "flywheel" problem because a ceremic clutch tends to wear out the flywheel...

[d1giPhux]

What exactly are you guys considering a 'hard launch'?

[Wiscon_Mark]

What exactly are you guys considering a 'hard launch'?

anything above 2000 rpms or so.

[jmgtp]

I dont want to sound like an ass but for the sake of reality I will:

At this point, with all the info we learned from above, I think it is just ignorant to believe that anything other than his driving habits caused the problems.

New clutch, newb stick driver, no-break in, racing launch... come on.

[Wiscon_Mark]

You are quite right. Subaru would be justified in denying warranty work on a "bad clutch" considering the abuse given.

[overl0ad]

New clutch, newb stick driver, no-break in, racing launch... come on.

good point. maybe i sell the car and ride my bicycle everywhere :)

[EuroAccord13]

New clutch, newb stick driver, no-break in, racing launch... come on.

I don't want to sound like an ass but for the sake of Reality, maybe I should too...

(Reserves Rebuttal Here)

Honestly, the problem could have been there beforehand, no car will ever come out perfect, if the 3K launch wasn't performed, whether by chance or delibrately done, Overl0ad wouldn't have known that the problem was there in the first place.

Why is it everytime a new car breaks down, it's always the driver? I've replaced my CMC three times in my car in two years.. Oh did I mention that it was a failure in the part as admitted by the dealership...?

[gil_ong81]

he may be a n00b driver to subaru, he's been driving a manual for probably 10 years now.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I'm still not convinced there's anything wrong. If you launch at that RPM, there's going to be burning clutch smell. I dunno about that "squealing" noise though.

Bottom line is - you're not supposed to launch it like that.

[gil_ong81]

Bottom line is - you're not supposed to launch it like that on a regular basis and/or with 5 people in the car.
fixed.

[overl0ad]

bottom line is, i "launch the car" then i HAVE to. i don't do it for kicks.

if i want to have some fun, there's a nice s bend not far from where i live, and i give that abit of foot.

i'm suprised no one has asked for a video of it... heh.

i spent last night in troubled sleep wondering what i can say to get my point across. i kinda decided that i have this to say:

it's kinda hard to tell me that i'm a n00b at driving. at driving stick. that i can't drive when you've never seen me drive.

it's very easy to assume that since i have a new car, i'm gonna be young and have a heavy right foot.

i went out and bought a new car cos i didn't want to inherit someone else's problems. (gil's car, jmgtp's worn clutch at 50,000(you 100% he didn't have to drive in peak hour, bumper to bumper traffic daily like i do?))

i could have gone out and bought an old b4 which is fast, has power, proberly broken in.

but the idea didn't give me a hard on, so i didn't.

a brand spaking new 2.5i did give me a hard on. so i went out and bought one cos i couldn't afford a h6.

all i basically said was that i don't expect a clutch system to start giving problems after under 1000kms. if i've been giving it grief, i'd bite the bullet and buy a twin plate. but i know that i haven't, so i want subie to fix it.

but hey, what do i know? i'm a newb drive who hasn't broken the car in correctly.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Hey man, I'm not trying to get on your case too hard, just saying 3000rpms is an excessive launch.

Has Subaru gotten back to you about warranty work?

[jmgtp]

When you specifically said you tend to slip the clutch a lot and race launch what are we to assume? That you're a pro? I certainly didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to internet tough guy you. It's your car, drive it how ever you please. My only point is, unless I'm mistaken, that the purpose of your thread is to find out why the clutch has said issues? Is it so wrong that given the information you provided that I deduce the source of the problem to be you?

Sure it could be faulty parts. If you so adamently believe that have the clutch replaced and don't adjust your driving habits at all, if in another month we're not reading 'clutch issues part 2' then you proved me wrong.

This is only my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't matter much to you; you don't know me so I can't carry much credibility right? Only way to find out what actually went sour is to rip it apart yourself or get it to the dealer.

To me, it really seems like you gave that clutch hell before the break in period was even up. And yes, a new clutch can be destroyed in hundreds of miles let alone thousands.

[Perdue]

Who wants to take bets on if Subaru voids the warranty work because of apparent transmission/clutch abuse in only 1500km? Any takers? I've seen Subaru try to void at least one warranty here in the US on those grounds.

Somehow, I don't see it as ever being necessary to launch a car from 3000RPM...That's beyond excessive, and there's been people break their transmissions doing that.

[d1giPhux]

Everyone wants to come to the conclusion that it might not be subaru's fault. But i beg to differ. Every car manufacturer is still a corporation, and still churns out shit occasionaly. This might be one of those cases. 3k rpm launches might be a little hard.. but the car should be able to take it without dying like a little bitch. Come on, even my old honda pieces of shit that were 10 years old could take more beating than that.. and thats just pathetic for a brand new car. Maybe it just wasnt in its prime to take the beating yet.. which could be why its dying out so fast. But either way.. i think that it should be able to take a little more of a beating than that.. especially for being brand new. I'd be just as pissed man.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I doubt Subaru of Australia is as strict as SOA about warranty work.

[overl0ad]

If you so adamently believe that have the clutch replaced and don't adjust your driving habits at all, if in another month we're not reading 'clutch issues part 2' then you proved me wrong.

well, if you've said it, then i'm sure i'll be back here in a month about swapping out my clutch.

:)

beer is your friend...

[overl0ad]

they replaced the clutch plate today.

only the clutch plate, no flywheel, no pressure plate.

will run in a few hundred KMs and see how it goes.

however,it has been prophesied that i'll be back here in a month (assume to be 30 calender days) wanting to replace my clutch

:D

note: beer is your friend :D:D:D

[overl0ad]

btw, they did scratch the car, see thread in "body n cosmetics"

[gil_ong81]

you're making little sense.

[overl0ad]

ok, so the car is back in subaru.

to get the scratches sorted out as well as the fix the clutch AGAIN.

yes yes, i know there will be a few of you grinning and saying "I TOLD YOU!!! IT"S YOUR DRIVING!!!"

but i'd like to point to you to these 2 threads in the MRT forum.

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32177

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32331

for the guys who can't be bothered to read it, here's the summary:

it's a known issue with subaru models which use the DMF. the clutch is a side effect, but the cause is the DMF.

i've asked if there's a stronger/upgrade option for the car and we'll see what they come back with.

if it's too much, i think i'll just keep getting it swapped out.

i really like the feel of the stock clutch on the MY06 WRX they loaned me... maybe i should explore that option?