Poor gas mileage AND can't fill up

[MC2]

I just picked upa 96 Legacy L Wagon and so far everything is great about it except two issues:

One my gas mileage seems to be REALLY poor. I drove about 50 miles free way, and according to the gauge, it used up about 1/4 tank. I don't know if the gauge is inaccurate or what, but that really concerns me if the gas mileage is really that bad.. I think i will go ahead and change the usual culprits, spark plugs, wires, air filter, tire pressure, but from how bad it looks i doubt those things are the cause of it. Any other things i should check out??


The second thing is, I can't even fill up the tank all the way to get an accurate calculation of the gas mileage because the nozzle keeps clicking off every few seconds! I did a search and couldnt find anything about this.. does anybody know what is causing the nozzle to click off?

Thanks

[yotabeater]

check the fuel filter too. i'd replace all of those parts unless you know when they were last replaced. that's usually the first think i do when i buy a used car is a full tune up, unless it just had one.

did the click thing only happen once at one gas station? or has it happened at multiple stations? i've never heard of a car doing that repeatedly. usually when you pull it and it just keeps clicking right away, that means the station is low on fuel.

[Plays_with_Toys]

If you're car is on a slope at a gas station it'll click off too. The gas gauge is inaccurate, but you should be able to squeeze out atleast 220 miles before the 1/4 tank left mark.

[d1giPhux]

Ahh, i had the same problem with my last legacy.. couldnt fill because it kept clicking every 2 damn seconds. A few things you can do in the mean time :

Hold the nozzle in pretty far.. or not very far at all.. and also tilt it downwards and hold the lever slowly.. i figured that worked on my car a few times, might work on yours.

The part you are going to need is a 'pressure control solenoid valve'. Weird thing is.. when i bought that part from subaru, the guy who installed it after me, said he put it in the location of the 'drain valve'.. which is on the bottom right side of your car, under a plastic box that almost looks like half of a loaf of bread. Here is the PDF for doing that.. and you may want to look more into it.

When i went to the subaru store.. i ordered a 'pressure control solenoid valve'.. but the guy who put it on the car after me, when i sold him the car.. said it went in the location of the drain valve, and said it looked exactly the same.. so im assuming that they either gave me the wrong part.. or that part goes where described by the drain valve PDF file i will give you. Either way.. the drain valve is easy to get to, the pressure control solenoid valve is not easy to get to.. but apparently the drain valve fixed his problem (gas not being able to fill up).

Here is the PDF for you of both the drain valve, and the pressure control solenoid valve.

Drain valve: www.designlabx.com/subaru/valves/Drain_ ... A27538.pdf (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/valves/Drain_Valve_MSA5T0122A27538.pdf)

Pressure Control Solenoid Valve:
www.designlabx.com/subaru/valves/MSA5T0 ... _valve.pdf (http://www.designlabx.com/subaru/valves/MSA5T0122A27532_Pressure_control_solenoid_valve.pdf)

Also.. are you getting any CEL lights? You should be.. or at least i did.

Good luck man, hope this helps!


Any more clues on this guys?

[backpack09]

^^ WHA?

Also, I don't know what kind of gas stations you use Play W/ Toys, but everyone I have ever seen is nearly perfectly flat, and actually engineered. The groves in the concrete are designed to hold something like 10 gallons of fuel so that it won't runoff and contaminate nearby streams.

[d1giPhux]

Were you talking to me? If so.. im pretty sure thats the issue with his car.. i had the same problem. Took it to subaru and everything to have them look at it to find out. My car was also getting a CEL code though. When the guy who bought my car off me took the drain valve out, he said it looked just like the part i got.. so i either got ripped off, or subaru ordered me the wrong part.. but either way it worked. You might want to call a subaru tech and ask them a few questions about the drain valve, and the pressure control solenoid to clear things up a bit.

[backpack09]

That makes more sence :)

You repeated yourself in your first post. and I lost you after the part was installed twice :)

I agree though, that this should throw a CEL at him.

[sheepdog]

My impreza did this after the swap. Something with how the emissions/charcoal canister was routed wrong. Sorry I can't help more, I wasn't the one who fixed it lol

[d1giPhux]

My impreza did this after the swap. Something with how the emissions/charcoal canister was routed wrong. Sorry I can't help more, I wasn't the one who fixed it lol

Yup.. thats the name for the 'bread loaf' part i was talking about.. hahaha. charcoal canister. LOL. Wow.. pathetic. Hahah. I would check for CEL codes for sure though, because it could be a few of the things under the charcoal canister.. i had mine tested at subaru and they told me it was the solenoid valve.. but the weird thing i dont understand is.. when the guy replaced the part.. he put the part i bought UNDER the charcoal canister.. which IS NOT the correct location for the solenoid valve. He said it looked the same though.. can anyone answer why this would have worked? Maybe subaru sold me the wrong part? Who knows.. but it worked by luck.

[Plays_with_Toys]

Oh, one other thing, because this did happen to me once. Some pumps flow very quick and I had one that was was too quick, so I set the auto thing one notch lower on the handle and it pumped slower but did not spring back constantly.

For spark plugs get some NGK V-power plugs and for wires, OEM from the dealership are only $28 which is about the same as most aftermarket wires (besides magnecor).

[MC2]

Alright so it looks like i got a little work to do...

but like i said there's no CEL, but i can try these things also. it's kind of a PITA to fill up right now.

Thanks for all the input guys.. i'll let you knwo if i get any improvement.

[MC2]

So i'm trying to run a whole tank down now... i've gone 160 miles and i'm nearing 1/4 tank left only according to the gas guage..

one very strange thing i noticed though is that the gas gauge DROPS much faster when i'm on the freeway then when i am driving local... about every 10 miles i can notice that it has gone down some..

Any ideas what this might indicate? Worse gas mileage on the freeway?

Anyway, tomorrow the air filter, plugs and wires will get changed to. If that doesn't fix anything, i'll probably have to do the 02 sensor after that.

[d1giPhux]

So i'm trying to run a whole tank down now... i've gone 160 miles and i'm nearing 1/4 tank left only according to the gas guage..

one very strange thing i noticed though is that the gas gauge DROPS much faster when i'm on the freeway then when i am driving local... about every 10 miles i can notice that it has gone down some..

Any ideas what this might indicate? Worse gas mileage on the freeway?

Anyway, tomorrow the air filter, plugs and wires will get changed to. If that doesn't fix anything, i'll probably have to do the 02 sensor after that.

I dont think any of those things you mentioned are going to fix it.. you might just want to save the money and get it properly diagnosed.. that way you will know exactly what to fix.

[yotabeater]

unless he's throwing a check engine light, a diagnostic ain't gonna do much IMO. if it were my car, i would do a tune up as mentioned, along with an ecu reset. just my .02.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Any ideas what this might indicate? Worse gas mileage on the freeway?


Or maybe that you're covering more distance in a shorter period of time...

[voorhees]

$65 for the soleniod at dealership. I asked and they said my 99 only had one of the two parts you spoke of. Of course they want $200 to install it.

[MC2]

So i'm trying to run a whole tank down now... i've gone 160 miles and i'm nearing 1/4 tank left only according to the gas guage..

one very strange thing i noticed though is that the gas gauge DROPS much faster when i'm on the freeway then when i am driving local... about every 10 miles i can notice that it has gone down some..

Any ideas what this might indicate? Worse gas mileage on the freeway?

Anyway, tomorrow the air filter, plugs and wires will get changed to. If that doesn't fix anything, i'll probably have to do the 02 sensor after that.

I dont think any of those things you mentioned are going to fix it.. you might just want to save the money and get it properly diagnosed.. that way you will know exactly what to fix.

Well, it's good practice to change all the tune up items like i mentioned anyway when buying a used car. And as someone mentioned above, i'm not so sure there's much to be diagnosed if the car is not throwing a CEL, :-? you know what i mean.

[MC2]

Any ideas what this might indicate? Worse gas mileage on the freeway?


Or maybe that you're covering more distance in a shorter period of time...

I'm comparing the mileage vs how fast the gas gauge is dropping. So the amount of time is not a factor.

10 miles on the freeway and i can already tell the needle has moved. 10 Miles on city roads i can't tell the needle has moved.

[Wiscon_Mark]

First of all - If you're measuring HOW FAST something is dropping, time is absolutely a factor.

Second of all - the gas guage is NOT accurate. Calculate mileage by the pump; it's even better if you use the same pump every time.

[MC2]

Sorry Mark, But time is not a factor.

Maybe i should refrase to I'm comparing how much the gauge is dropping verse the mileage i have travelled. There is no time in the equation.

Just for illustrations sake, 10 miles on the freeway might be 2 notches. 10 miles on city driving might be 1 notch.

Yes i would normally calculate the MPG based on mileage vs gallons filled up, but as I mentioned i'm not even able to get an accurate fill up because the car keeps shutting the pump off, which is why it's been such an issue. :-(

[sheepdog]

you're wheels are balanced right?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Sorry Mark, But time is not a factor.

Maybe i should refrase to I'm comparing how much the gauge is dropping verse the mileage i have travelled. There is no time in the equation.

Just for illustrations sake, 10 miles on the freeway might be 2 notches. 10 miles on city driving might be 1 notch.

Yes i would normally calculate the MPG based on mileage vs gallons filled up, but as I mentioned i'm not even able to get an accurate fill up because the car keeps shutting the pump off, which is why it's been such an issue. :-(

Okay, I'm a physics major, I have to take you to task here :razz:

You mentioned speed. That would be distance divided by time. It's definitely involved.

/Phys lecture.

I don't think it's actually the car shutting the pump off. Usually it's the pump, and how fast you're filling it.

[MC2]

Sorry Mark, But time is not a factor.

Maybe i should refrase to I'm comparing how much the gauge is dropping verse the mileage i have travelled. There is no time in the equation.

Just for illustrations sake, 10 miles on the freeway might be 2 notches. 10 miles on city driving might be 1 notch.

Yes i would normally calculate the MPG based on mileage vs gallons filled up, but as I mentioned i'm not even able to get an accurate fill up because the car keeps shutting the pump off, which is why it's been such an issue. :-(

Okay, I'm a physics major, I have to take you to task here :razz:

You mentioned speed. That would be distance divided by time. It's definitely involved.

/Phys lecture.

I don't think it's actually the car shutting the pump off. Usually it's the pump, and how fast you're filling it.

Yes, but i refrased it and replaced the word fast with a quantity. So i think it no longer applies since speed is not a factor now. :razz:


I'm pretty sure its the car, considering i've tried 6 different pumps at 6 different gas stations, all of which i normally have no problems with when filling up my G35 or S2K. I've also tried at every different speed possible and every different angle of entry i could imagine.

There's a page on scooby mods that mentions this and has some trouble shooting tips to find out where the problem is coming from. Once i can run this tank down i'll have to go try that.

[d1giPhux]

I've also tried at every different speed possible and every different angle of entry i could imagine.

:lol:

Im telling you.. its gotta be the same problem i had a while back.. or related to that area. Did you download that pdf i uploaded for you? Its gotta be that.. or one of the lines going through there might be plugged.. but yea.. check it out!

[MC2]

I've also tried at every different speed possible and every different angle of entry i could imagine.

:lol:

Im telling you.. its gotta be the same problem i had a while back.. or related to that area. Did you download that pdf i uploaded for you? Its gotta be that.. or one of the lines going through there might be plugged.. but yea.. check it out!

Yup, i checked it out, havent had time to get in there to replace those parts yet. I definately think it is related to one of those solenoids going to or from the vapor canister. Thanks for the links!

[voorhees]

Is it also a possibilty that it is the filler neck?

[backpack09]

Did you try http://northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/misc/fuel.pdf ?

[ryankenn]

I'm pretty sure its the car, considering i've tried 6 different pumps at 6 different gas stations, all of which i normally have no problems with when filling up my G35 or S2K. I've also tried at every different speed possible and every different angle of entry i could imagine.

If you can afford a G35 AND a S2000, why are you messing around with a POS lemon 97 Legacy. Roll out some dough and buy a different one that works.

That's my solution :)

:twisted:

[MC2]

Did you try http://northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/misc/fuel.pdf ?

Not yet, i discovered a hose which Tees off of the Fuel Tank hose was completely broken. It leads back up to some kind of solenoid or something.. not exactly sure what it is yet. Anyway i replaced that hose with some 1/4" ID rubber tubing i had lying around, but that didn't fix the problem either. I was 90% sure that was going to solve the problem..

So now next time i go to the gas station I gotta try to pull the fuel tank line completely and see if that does anything as mentioned in the link. Hopefully it leads somewhere this time.

[MC2]

I'm pretty sure its the car, considering i've tried 6 different pumps at 6 different gas stations, all of which i normally have no problems with when filling up my G35 or S2K. I've also tried at every different speed possible and every different angle of entry i could imagine.

If you can afford a G35 AND a S2000, why are you messing around with a POS lemon 97 Legacy. Roll out some dough and buy a different one that works.

That's my solution :)

:twisted:

I need a beater :) For my two dogs and carrying crap around in.

I can't buy a new car and not take care of it.. so this one i can just park it anywhere, drive it over anything, eat, drink, leave trash and just not feel guilty. :razz:

[RadeOn]

so this one i can just park it anywhere, drive it over anything, eat, drink, leave trash and just not feel guilty. :razz:
Subaru gods will punish you for this :twisted:

[LeggoMyLeggy]

This is probably late but I had this problem once. The dealership blew the vent pipes out with air and it fixed the issue.

/Leggo